RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: Beverley Nicholson on Wednesday 30 June 04 15:34 BST (UK)
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:)
Hello to Derbyshire, from Rhode Island,( the smallest state )and home to many of Derby's descendants.
I am wondering if someone would be so kind as to look for the following people for me and possible ancestors.
My grandmother, Doris Redman, came to RI with the woolen industry as a little girl age 6. I am looking for some of her ancestors.
JOSEPH CRESSWELL b 1831 Denby Derbyshire
m Sarah Ann________?______.
Any information on this line would certainly be appreciated. Their daughter Hannah was my gg grandmother. Hannah was born in Denby on 18 Feb 1853.
Thanks in advance!
Beverly
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Hi Beverly,
Is Joseph b 1831 the son of Robert & Mary Creswell who was Bpt 11th December 1831 Denby? With the following siblings:-
Elizabeth Bpt 24.9.1826
Stephen 23.11.1828 = Hannah Woolland 7.10.1847
Mary Ann 16.6.1833
Robert 23.10.1836
Benjamine 28.5.1837 = Mirah Palfreyman 20.1.1857
Timothy 7.4.1850
You can find most of these on 1881 Census www.familysearch.co.uk
Robert & Mary are also on.
Have been unable to find a marriage for Joseph & Sarah Ann, both were born in Denby.
Will you please confirm birth date for Hannah, will then see if I can find them on 1861 Census.
Greetings from Belper twinned with Pawtuckett.
Spendlove
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:)
Thanks for the information. I cant seem to get into familyserch.co.uk, but can get it from familysearch.org- maybe its because I am in the US?
Anyway, I was up until after midnight last night trying to figure this family out. There certainly is a ton of British information at the Mormon site...thanks again for further suggesting I pursue this site.
Have a nice day!
Sincerely,
Bev :)
PS Hannah Cresswell was born Feb 18, 1853 in Denby. I have her actual little prayer book and a newspaper obit that was sent here to Rhode Island to my grandmother in 1836. "She died at " 6 Grange Avenue, Aughton (sp?) Road Estate Swallonest. (????)She was a native of Denby, Derbyshire."
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Hi. Swallownest is just east of Sheffield and on my modern map is in Yorkshire now but may well have been in Derbyshire then, not much in it distance wise. Aughton is spelled right and is another place just east of Sheffield. The following link may interest you http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Aston/index.html
I must admit that I never heard of "wapentake" before in my life - must be a weird Yorkshire thing! ;D
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Hi Beverly.
You might want to keep an eye on the archives of messages from the Derbysgen mailing list on rootsweb. The Denby parish registers dating from 1573 are currently being copied on to the site by one of the listers - they are up to the 1750's at the moment and I have noticed several instances of the surname Cresswell. I don't know what date they will go up to.
The link is http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DERBYSGEN/, scroll down to 'June 2004', and then search for 'Denby Register' (there are several messages, and they carry into July 2004).
Regards,
Sasha.
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WAPENTAKE
Is a hundred or division of a Shire, in areas of England that had a large Danish population.
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Thanks for your help; I will check through all the Denby records you are posting.
Beverly
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???
Hello to everyone so kind to be helping me.
I am totally confused at this point.
I had always thought Hannah Cresswell's( b Feb 18, 1853 in Denby) fathers name was Joseph and her mother, Sarah Ann.
I recently viewed Hannah and Henry Walter's marriage documentation on the LDS site, and saw where she listed her father as James Cresswell.
Can someone please help by searching for her in the census?
I have her little prayer book and also the original obit from 1936, but neither give mention of her ancestors.
Interestingly the article claims, "to have never had a doctor or a bottle of medicine until the last 2 weeks of her life." You go girl!! LOL!! She was 83 when she passed away!
Have a good week everyone!
Bev
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Hi Bev,
There is this baptism on the IGI:
Anne Cresswell, 14th June 1853, Bradley, Derbys, parents James and Elizabeth Creswell.
Bradley is just under 11 miles away from Denby.
Regards,
Sasha.
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Bev, Regarding the confusion in the name of Hannah's father, have you tried the FreeBMD site? I just did a quick search for you, and although there is a year difference in year of birth, there are other similarities:
Birth: June 1852
Hanna Cresswell
District: Belper*
Vol. 7b, pg.311
*The District of Belper includes Denby.
If this looks like a possibility, you might want to order the birth certificate. That will give you her father's name. If you're not familiar with the site, here is the link:
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
meg
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Dear Sasha and Meh,
Not knowing the "lay of the land" I am wondering if this could help in the quest. I cannot find the information I have that Joseph was her father...this is driving me nuts.
She identifies herself in the hymnal as Hannah Cresswell Ripley, February 1877. She was married the following year to Henry Walters.
Bev ??? ::)
HANNAH'S OBIT.
FOUND IN HER HYMNAL- A COLLECTION OF HYMNS FOR THE USE OF THE PEOPLE CALLED METHODISTS 1876
January 6, 1936
"The late Mrs. Hannah Walters- The death occurred on Monday at her home 6 Grange Avenue, Aughton Road Estate, Swallownest, of Mrs. Hannah Walters, widow of Mr. Henry Walters. The deceased lady, who was 83 years of age, had resided at Swallownest for the last 60 years. She was a native of Denby, Derbyshire. She could claim that she had never had a doctor or a bottle of medicine until the last two weeks of her life. Her husband died about 15 years ago. She leaves one son, six daughters, and 17 grand children and four great-grandchildren. The interment took place on Thursday in the cemetery at Aston, following a service conducted in All Saints Church by the Reverand AR Hince (assistant curate). The mourners included Mr. and Mrs. J. Walters, of Swallownest (son and daughter in law), Mr. and MRs. C. Simpson of Bradford(son in law and daughter), Miss Mary Walters of Bradford (daughter), Mrs. J. King of Bradford (daughter), Mrs. W Greenwood of BRadford (daughter), Mrs. T. Gunday of Goldthorpe (daughter), Mr. Norman Gunday of Goldthorpe, Miss Madge Walters of Bradford, Master Eric Walters of Bradford (grandchildren), Mr. and Mrs. J. Coundley of Swallownest, Mr. and Mrs. G. Whysall of Swallownest (nephews and neices), and MRs. L Turner of Swallownest. Floral tributes were sent by James and Florrie and family, Carrie and Charlie, Polly and Jane, Alice and Billy, Mimi, Tom, and Norman (grandchildren), and Mr. and Mrs. G Whysall of Swallownest."
Interred at Aston, January 9, 1936
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Hi Bev,
You're lucky to have the obit - all those names!
If I were you I would buy a copy of Hannah's marriage certificate. This will eliminate the possibility of a transcription error on the IGI, give you an occupation for her father which may help to place him on the census, and perhaps the witnesses to the marriage may provide extra clues.
I see from the IGI that the marriage took place in Codnor & Loscoe. Having just looked on the Genuki site the parish church is St. James, but it also mentions that the Weslyan Reformers & Methodists have places of worship there, and from the details in her obit it could well be that she was married there.
Regards,
Sasha. :)
p.s. - have you seen the look-up offer for Derby Local Studies Library?
http://www.rootschat.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=150;action=display;threadid=6242;start=0;boardseen=1
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Bev, From the FreeCen website for 1891 UK:
meg
Piece: RG12/3844 Place: Rotherham-West Riding of Yorkshire Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Aston With Aughton Ecclesiastical Parish: All Saints
Folio: 77 Page: 44 Schedule: 242
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
WALTERS Henry Head M M 39 Coal Miner(Em'ee) Nottinghamshire - -
WALTERS Hannah Wife M F 38 Derbyshire - -
WALTERS Sarah Dau - F 13 Derbyshire - -
WALTERS Mary Dau - F 11 Derbyshire - -
WALTERS Catherine Dau - F 10 Yorkshire - -
WALTERS Jane Dau - F 8 Derbyshire - -
WALTERS Alice Dau - F 5 Derbyshire - -
WALTERS Jemima Dau - F 3 Derbyshire -
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Thanks Meg,
I have that information- SARAH was my great gram and I named by daughter after her. Sarah left England and emigrated to Maine, and then Rhode Island.
Its these darn Cresswells that are driving me nuts.
The more I look at things, the more it looks like Hannah's father was James and not Joseph.
Hi Sasha,
Thanks for the hyperlink for the person who will do lookups. I just added a post for her.
I have 4 generations back if her father was Joseph- b 1831 in Denby, but it looks like her dad was James.
On to more research. Good thing I have the summer off- I am a reading/literacy teacher.
_____________________________________________________________________
Hannah may have claimed to never have had anything from a bottle, but at this point, I am ready to drink a whole bottle of wine!!! :)
Thanks again for all your help, Sasha and Meg!!
I'm sending some Rhode Island sunshine your way!
Bev
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Hi Bev,
1881 Census on www.familysearch.org:-
Name Age Born
Walters Henry Head 27 Cinderhill, Nottingham Coal Miner
" Hannah Wife 28 Denby, Derbys
" Sarah Ann Dau 3 Rentrick, Derbys
" Mary Dau 1 Aston, York
" William Brother 40 Pentrick, Derbys Coal Miner
Living Aston Ter, Aston Cum Aughton & Ulley York
Ref RG11/4670/78 Pg 46.
This I think proves she was born in Denby, Derbys. The place names
Rentrick and Pentrick I am sure should read PENTRICH, Derbyshire.
There is a Birth of Sarah Ann June Quarter 1878 Belper 7b, 595. Belper Registration District includes Pentrich. (this is on free BMD)
The connection being Coal, it was mined Pentrich, Denby, Heage, Belper etc. all within a few miles of each other.
Will visit record office tomorrow and see if I can find her on the 1861 Census, Before she got married.
Spendlove
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Dear "Spendlove"
Thanks so much- you are so sweet to do this for me. Wish there were something I could research for you in Rhode Island; please let me know if there is.
I have spent the whole day looking and re- editing this stuff. I've totally deleted Joseph Cresswell- but did keep a hard copy of what I thought was the correct research- just incase! Not knowing where these little villages are makes it difficult to grasp. I do know that supposedly Hannah was ashamed of her pregnancy (married in Feb and delivered in April 1878), but I have no reference other than "heresay" for that. Her obit says though, that she lived for 60 years in this Swallownest. Is this near Bradford? Do you know of any old map that could identify and show me these places?
In between researching this, I am re-reading DH Lawerence- Of Sons and Lovers- just to get into the ambiance of it all- LOL.
Bev
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Hi Beverley,
I have seen your request on my post about looking in Derby Library to see if I can help you...so I will try and help sort this out for you. Just looking here to see what info you already had and what others have provided...
&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newmap.sr]
In the meantime here is a (current) map showing some of the places mentioned CLICK (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=435149&y=347793&z=3&sv=Belper&st=3&tl=Belper,+Derbyshire+[Town)
As you can see Belper is in the middle with Ripley slightly to the north east, Pentrich is slightly above Ripley and Denby directly below. All these places still exist.
I dont know Swallownest but as others have said that could be in Yorkshire.
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:) Dear Meriel,
Thanks for your kind offer to look up Hannah's birth. I am basically looking to see whether her father was James or Joseph. (and any siblings etc.) She was born on February 18, 1853 in Denby, married Henry Walters in Codnor on February 9, 1878, and had my great grandmother, Sarah, 2 months later on Arpil 1, 1878.
Thanks again for helping me and many thanks for the map. Town names etc. are now in a little better mind set for me. Its hard to see across the Atlantic!
Sincerely,
Bev
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Hi Bev,
Visited local library at Belper today, searched the 1861 Census
RG9/2508 to 1510 which includes Horsley, Morley, Smalley, Mapperley,
Kilburn, Horsley Woodhouse, Holbrook, Denby
NO LUCK.
On the 1871 Census RG 10/3581 Pg 19 Item 21 I found the following:
DENBY
Cresswell Joseph Head M 40 Coal Miner Denby
" Sarah Ann Wife M 44 "
" George Son U 20 " Horsley Woodhouse
" Joseph Son U 5 Scholar " "
HUNT Mary Ann Dau U 24 Servant " "
Is this the family, but Hannah aged abt. 18 is away working? Possibly
in Ripley which is where she appears to be in 1877?
It would also appear that Sarah Ann has been married before.
Have looked for a Mary A Hunt on IGI, no bpts. but there is an entry which indicated her father was James Hunt mother Sarah Ann Riley.
Sorry my local Library do not hold any Ripley Census films.
Have you considered an appeal in Ripley & Heanor News and their sister paper Belper News, www.ripleytoday.co.uk/contactUs.aspx
Coal Miners moved from pit to pit to get work, so it is not unusual for them not to be in the place where they were born.
In 1871 living next door RG10 3581 Pg. 19 Item 22 are
CRESSWELL Joseph Head M 77 Retired Miner Denby
" Sarah Wife M 70 - Crich
May be the parents of Joseph.
Spendlove
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Dear "Spendlove"
It would appear that this is the family- IF Joseph was her father. I originally thought he was, but on her marriage license, she states that James is her father.
Hannah was 25 when she became pregnant and married Henry Walters.
I wonder if she was married before- I've never heard anything like that, but who knows? Twenty five is rather old to have a first child back in those days, is it not?
Unfortunately, I dont know if Hannah had any siblings. The people listed in her obit are all her own children and grandchildren.
Did I send you my gedcom? Would you want to look at it?
Oh, I sent in an inquiry to the newspaper- thanks for the idea.
Have a nice evening, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Bev
PS The English rain is headed this way for the rest of the week. What a lovely sunny day it was today! 8)
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Hi Beverley,
Well you have a lot of info on Joseph and Sarah Ann but you just need to confirm that they are Hannah's parents. She never seems to appear on the census at home with them...but that is something I can check tomorrow in the library for you.
Can I ask how you first came to think that Joseph and Sarah Ann were Hannah's parents?
Meriel
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Hi Meriel,
That, I am not sure; I apologize. I am very festidiouis about citing sources etc. and I have very little on this one. When I saw the marriage record of Henry and Hannah, she listed her father as James Cresswell which threw me all off!
Coincidently, Hannah's mother's name is Sarah Ann. Hannah names her first born Sarah Ann.
I apologize - I've searched through my hard copy data looking for references and have found nothing. Hummmmmm- maybe a little mouse typed it into my computer data base. ;D
Thanks again for offering to help me with this. It will be very interesting to see what you come up with. In the meantime, I see where rootschat offers a polling inquiry. I was thinking of putting up a poll that says, "Who is Hannah's father" option 1 James option 2 Joseph...
The winner gets the little mouse that lives in my computer!
;)
Have a nice day, Meriel and I will talk to you soon.
Bev
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Beverly,
It would be good fun if you did start a poll like that ! :)
Trystan
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LOOK WHO IS IN DENBY SUNDAY SCHOOL-
From: (*)
Date: 2004/07/09 Fri PM 06:23:49 EDT
To: DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: [DBY] DENBY SUNDAY SCHOOL 1872
Hi list,
the following Teachers and girls attended the Sunday School at Denby
in 1872 (Jul 16th )
TEACHERS
F M STENSON
Sarah WOODHOUSE
Agnes LAND
Ann PALFREYMAN
Louisa STRELLEY
Elizabeth WESTON
BIBLE CLASS
Agnes ABEL
Matilda BROWN
Alice CRESSWELL
Jemima CRESSWELL
Sarah BROWN New Row
Sarah Ellen BROWN
Mary Ann CRESSWELL
Mary BROWN Bottle Bk
Mary BROWN (Williams)
Elizb WESTONS(john )
Mary Ann SMITH
Eliza ORME
Maria BROWN (Charles)
TESTAMENT CLASS
Ann BROWN
Jemima ANNABLE
Hannah CRESSWELL
Alice PALFREYMAN
Emily BROWN
Mary Ann BRIGGS
Mary CRESSWELL
Elizabeth BROWN
more to follow.
mike
________________________________________
AND SO THE HUNT GOES ON!
Happy Weekend everyone!
Bev
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Hi Bev,
Your Cresswell search is bugging me, I will also take to the bottle. Decided to
look at this another way.
You have a Mary Ann Hunt living with Joseph & Sarah Ann Cresswell 1871 Census,shown as daughter.
I have found her 1851 Census HO 107/2144 Horsley Woodhouse Folio 307 sch. 18:-
Crooks Joseph Head Widower 54 Nail Maker Horsley Woodhouse
Hunt Ann Servant " 24 Denby
" Mary Ann Dau of Servant 4 Horsley Woodhouse
Mary Ann Hunt, Birth Registaration Belper December Q 1846 Vol 19 Pg.426
If you compare these details with those I sent for 1871, Ann Hunt and dau Mary Ann Hunt, are now living with Joseph Cresswell Ann has also added Sarah to her name. So Sarah Ann has been married before.
There is an item on IGI, not confirmed by register entries, that Sarah Ann was a Riley before her first marriage.
1841 Census Denby H0 107/188/12 FOLIO 25
Riley ?(cannot read) 40 coal miner Derbyshire
" Hannah 40 - Not born Derbyshire
" Sarah 15 Cotton Framework Derbys
In this census only, being listed as age 15 ment you could be between 15 & 20 years of age. Is this Sarah Ann? would have been about the correct age for the 1851 census (ann) above.
Joseph Cresswell appears on the Census Returns as follows:-
1851 H) 107/2144 Folio 432 Sch. 25
Cresswell Joseph Head M 57 Coal Miner Derby
" Sarah Wife M 50 - Crich
" ** Joseph Son u 19 Denby
" Robert Son u 17 "
" George son 11 Scholar "
" Mathew son 9 " "
1861 RG9/2508 Folio 135 Sch 26 Denby
Church Street
Cresswell Joseph Head m 67 Coal Miner Denby
" Sarah Wife m 60 - Crich
" ** Joseph so n u 30 'Sinker' coal miner Denby
" Mathew son u 19 Coal Miner "
Robert & George are now married ( I have their entries if you think this is your family)
By the next census 1871 Sarah Ann and Joseph are living together. It would appear that they married after 1861, they may not have married until much later or never married.
In the 1841 Census of Horsley Woodhouse there is
Hunt James 45
" Elizabeth 50
" James 20 (could have been aged 20 - 25years)
" Elizabeth 8
Did this James Hunt marry Ann or Sarah or Sarah Ann Riley?, had a Daughter Mary Ann Hunt, died or left (is this why Sarah Ann did not get married when you thought she had) Sarah Ann Hunt then married Joseph Cresswell.
Hannah was born 1853 but was her father James Hunt?
Think you need a request for James, Sarah Ann & Mary Ann Hunt on 1861 Census
possibly Ripley or Pentrich.
This is very complicated, but it would explain why you are having problems.
Could not think of any other way of doing this. Please read and re-read to understand.
Spendlove
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Dear "Spendlove"
I am printing your hypothesis as I write this and will sit and review what you have surmised and get back to you. I must say, this is going to be a challenge- even for a reading/literacy teacher!!!
Thanks,
Bev
and:
Dear Trystan (list monitor),
I am still not getting email notifications of postings to this list. I happened to find this myself without any notice via email. Could you please check into this again?
Thanks,
Bev ???
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Dear "Spendlove",
OK- the "teacher" part of me has been hard at work. What I think you are saying is that Hannah Cresswell is possilby Hannah Hunt (daughter of James Hunt) and that her biological father somehow left the family and her mother aka Sarah, Ann, and sometimes Sarah Ann, later lived with, and eventually married Joseph Cresswell.
Am I right?
The question now is, as you say, to check the 1861 census for this family. In the 1871 census, you found Sarah/Ann/ Sarah Ann age 24 living as a servant w/ Joseph Crooks (a widower age 54) along w/ her 4 year old daughter, Mary Ann. Hannah, of course hadnt been born yet. The question is, where was JAMES HUNT at this time?? If he was dead, then he could not have been Hannah's father, because she was not born for two years later.
Now, in America, this makes for a great story line...lol- Hollywood would definitely have this old widower man, Joseph Crooks as having a relationship with his young servant lady, Ann/Sarah/SarahAnn.
But for some reason, Hannah lists James as her father on her marriage licence. Where is he in 1871? Has he died or left his wife and young daughter. Did he reunite w/ his wife and have Hannah 2 years later???
Oh, what a story this could be for the soap operas!
Yes, you are correct, I need to find the 1861 census. In the little hymnal/devotion book that I have of Hannah's she writes on the inside cover; H Cresswell Ripley 1877.
Can you get a gedcom? Also, I'd love to take a digital photo of this little book and send it to you. If you would like me to do this, please email me your email address. My address is (*).
Thanks, and have a nice week!
Bev :D
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Dear Spendlove and everyone,
I posted your suggested census query on a Derbyshire list at rootsweb.com and here is the reply:
______________________________________________________________________________
From: (*)
Date: 2004/07/14 Wed AM 03:15:26 EDT
To: (*)
Subject: Re: [DBY] 1861 CENSUS LOOK UP
Hello Beverly,
The only HUNTs I could find in the 1861 Census in Pentrich = RG9 Piece 2513
folios 63-75 was this family :-
folio 63 page 1 Sch.1 : Pentrich Lane
Hezekiah Hunt, Head, Mar, 36, Coal Miner, Nottinghamshire Eastwood
Jemima Hunt, Wife, 31, -, Derbysghire Belper
Hannah Hunt, Daur, -, 12, Works at Cotton Factory, do Ripley
Joseph Hunt, Son, -, 10, Works at Coal Pit, do Ripley
Lucy Hunt, Daur, -, 8, -, do Ripley
Ann Hunt, Daur, -, 4, -, do Pentrich
Eliza Hunt, Daur, -, 1, -, do Pentrich
Issac Hunt, Son, -, 1 mo, -, do Pentrich
Also at Pentrich at Sch.40 on folio 66 page 8 is an Emanuel HUNT, Servant,
Un, 22, Waggoner, born Derbyshire Crich, living in the household of John
DANNAH , Farmer of 101 acres.
Good hunting ...(*) in Littleover, Derby
----- Original Message -----
From: (*)
To: <DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:41 AM
Subject: [DBY] 1861 CENSUS LOOK UP
> Hello,
I am wondering if someone would kindly look up James Hunt,his wife
Sarah(aka Ann and also Sarah Ann) and daughter Mary Ann Hunt in the 1861
Census possibly in Ripley of Pentrich.
> Thanks in advance.
> Beverly in Rhode Island
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-
Doesnt this prove that Sarah Ann/Riley was married first to James Hunt then to Joseph Cresswell????
Hannah was born in 1853- goes by Cresswell, but gives James (Hunt) as her biological father.
Individual Record FamilySearch™ Pedigree Resource File
~~~~~~~~
Sarah Ann Riley Compact Disc #36 Pin #98366
Sex: F
~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
Birth: abt 1827 Place: Horsley Sub,Derbys,England
Burial: 23 Jul 1882 Place: Denby,Derbys,Eng
~~~~~~~~
Parents:
~~~~~~~~
Marriage(s):
Spouse: James Hunt sawyer Disc #36 Pin #98355
Marriage: abt 1844 Place: ,,Derbys,Eng
Spouse: Joseph Cresswell Disc #36 Pin #98340
Marriage: 2 Nov 1865 Place: Wes Meth,Belper,Derbys,Eng
~~~~~~~~
Notes and Sources:
Notes: Available on CD-ROM Disc# 36
Sources: None
~~~~~~~~
Submitter:
Ina H. TUFT
Box 468 53 N 100 W Monroe, Utah, 84754
~~~~~~~~
Submission Search: 1224412-0922101211337
URL:
CD-ROM: Pedigree Resource File - Compact Disc #36
CD-ROM Features: Pedigree View, Family View, Individual View, Reports, Downloadable GEDCOM files, Notes and Sources.
Order Pedigree Resource File CD-ROMS
-
Hi Beverley,
I saw your request in the Ripley and Heanor News on Friday last (I was reading someone elses paper so I hope I've remembered everything) and have been having a look round. Swallownest is about 25 miles north of Ripley and is situated in South Yorkshire to the east of Sheffield. Quite a lot of people from the Ripley area ended up in the area mainly in the mining industry. You may already have this information but in the 1901 census Henry and Hannah were in the Parish of Aston with Aughton (or Aston cum Aughton) which may cover Swallownest. Henry is described as a miner, aged 48, born Nottingham, Hannah, 47, shown born Derby, but this could be a transcription error. Children appear to be Alice, aged 15, born Waingroves, James aged 9, born Swallownest, and Jemima aged 13, also born Waingroves, a village near to Ripley.
There were members of the Whysall family living at Aston in 1901 and I suspect the one mentioned in the obit, G Whysall is one German Whysall. The Cresswells and Walters families abound in the Ripley/Heanor areas as do the Whysalls and I have connections through marriage recorded to my mothers family, the Hardys, at Heanor. I haven't yet established a link with yours but I'll keep looking. I hope this little bit helps. I live at Alfreton in Derbyshire, only about 3 miles from Ripley, so if you think I can help don't hesitate to ask. I can be contacted direct on (*)
Best wishes
John Rayson
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Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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-
:)
Hi John,
I have been having trouble with this website, rootschat.com, notifying me when I have an incoming message. By chance, I just happened to check and found your message here. I will contact you at your email provided.
Thanks,
Bev
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Hi Bev,
Found the marriage of Ann Riley to James Hunt
1.7.1844 St. Alkmund, Derby.
James Hunt age 24 Father James Hunt
Ann Riley age 19 " Joseph Riley
These ages match Ann Hunt (Riley) in 1851 Census and James Hunt in the 1841 Census, Horsley Woodhouse.
Spendlove
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:)
SO, is it safe to say your original hypothesis is correct????
Bev
PS- Tristan, if you are watching this, I am still not getting an email from the site telling me I have a response to my posting. Please advise- thanks!
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Here is Hannah and Henry's marriage from the GRO index of births marriages and deaths:
Marriage Mar Qtr 1878
Creswell Hannah Basford 7b 136
Walters Henry Basford 7b 136
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:) Thanks Meriel. I think she names "James" as her father in the marriage certificate. Do you have access to this? Should I send for it? I am interested to see who Henry names as his father- this is a whole other line that I have not done.
Always something, right?
:)
Bev
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Im afraid that is the only info the BMD index gives but does allow you to order the certificate with the reference (makes it cheaper!). I think it would be worth it just to confirm for sure that James is her father. Also if you are planning to trace Henry's ancestors at some point then you will have his fathers name as a starting point.
If you do decide to order it...please let us know the outcome! :)
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Hi Meriel,
Thanks again for all your help. I am not getting any notifications from the board when a new message is posted. I contacted the list administrator for help; however it appears as though there is not a problem.
OK I will keep in touch!
Bev
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If anybody is getting notifications by email of this topic, please let me know by clicking the "report to moderator" link below.
Thanks,
Trystan
RootsChat Admin
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Thanks to everyone who has helped me with this search. As the summer draws to a quick close, I will be heading back to Babcock Middle School in Westerly, Rhode Island; with limited time to devote to the passions of genealogy; yet continue my primary passion- teaching children to read. When you teach a child to read, you open the world for them...and in doing so, they too can explore the stories and tales of their own ancestors.
Bev
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Bev,
Well I hope you found everything you were looking over here anyhow. :) :)
Trystan
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Bev,
Not sure - have you got a notification this time?
Trystan
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Hi Tristan,
I didnt get the email notification for this...I did get a notification that you had left me a Personal Message- but not a notification that there had been a response to my posting.
Bev ???
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Very strange - I didn't get a notification either !!!
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YES!!! I GOT A NOTIFICATION THAT YOU HAD REPLIED TO MY QUERY!!!
Hopefully the problem is fixed. Thanks!
Bev
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:)
Hello everyone!
I received a lovely snail mail letter today from a Mrs. Richardson from Heanor, Derbyshire. She was kind enough to send me the Birth registration of a Hannah Cresswell. Hannah was born /registered in Belper, subdistrict of Horsley on May 2, 1852 to a James Cresswell and Sarah Cresswell (formerly Brown). Do you think this is my Hannah?
Mrs. Richardson also sent me my ggrandmother's birth- Sarah Ann b 1 April 1878 in Wainsgrove, Pentrich.
I still am not sure that this Hannah is the correct one.
Any thoughts?
Bev
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I have the list of marriages for St James Parish Church Codnor Derbys 1844-1894- many from Denby were married there(there is a Codnor Denby Lane-this is probably your HANNAH:
FEB 9TH 1878 Bridegroom HENRY WALTERS 25 MINER father NATHANIEL WALTERS MINER
Bride:HANNAH CRESSWELL 24 father JAMES CRESSWELL BRICKMAKER
There are quite a few CRESSWELL marriages in the list-mainly the children of ROBERT CRESSWELL or FRANCIS CRESSWELL(AMONG OTHERS)
There is also this entry
Oct 1st 1872 Bridegroom JAMES CRESSWELL Widower 39 Miner Father FRANCIS CRESSWELL Miner
Bride ELIZABETH HODBY 39 Father JOSEPH HODBY Collier
Possibly HANNAH'S fathers 2nd marriage????
If you would like the other enties please ask.
I live a few miles from this area and am researching CRESSWELLS (my Grandmothers line)
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Thanks for your help! Do you see where Hannah had any brothers/sisters? I am still unsure as to what her line is.
Hope to hear from you again. I am coming to England again next summer and hopefully I can meet everyone who has been so kind to me.
Thanks again,
Bev
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St James PC Codnor
June 5th 1876 Bridegroom GEORGE SCRETTAN 26Miner Illegitimate
BrideELLEN CRESSWELL 19 Father JAMES CRESSWELL Miner
Strong possibilty-almost certainly?
If you think the James Cresswell 2nd marriage to Elizabeth Hodby is Hannah's father-then her grandfather would be Francis Cresswell-i have several of his childrens marriages-they would be James siblings Interested???
I'm still looking for more of Hannah's siblings-back-will be on line for next hour-so hang on in there!
Cheers Suz
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Hi-I'm still up-like to do family research while the house is quiet!
First of all-George Scretton -on freebmd his name is spellt Scrottan in marriage entry- on freebmd births the name is spellt Scraton!!!
I am pretty sure the marriage of James Cresswell widower to Elizabeth Hodby is Hannahs fathers second marriage-I have just noticed on the marriage entry it gives James as living at Waingroves
Just read your post that your ggrandmother Sarah Ann was born in Waingroves-seems to fit. Waingroves is not far from Codnor-between Codnor and Ripley
Hannahs father James Cresswell was the son of FRANCIS CRESSWELL
jAMES sisters would be as follows:
SARAH CRESSWELL - her marriage entry is St James pc Codnor 6th jan 1857 ED. BRIGGS 22 labourer Father JOHN VALLANCE (UNDERLINED-USUALLY MEANS STEPFATHER) Blacksmith, SARAH CRESSWELL 24 father FRANCIS CRESSWELL Collier
ELIZA ANN CRESSWELL=marriage entry: 24th Nov 1857 ANDREW BYARD 29 Labourer father WILLIAM BYARD Labourer ELIZA ANN CRESSWELL 26 father FRANCIS CRESSWELL Collier
Hope that fills in more of your tree
Cheers Suz
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Age Where
1901 CENSUS FEMALES AGED 0/100
Born Administrative
County Civil Parish Occupation
Doris Cresswell 10M Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Sara Cresswell 1 Marehay Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Doris Cresswell 2 Belper Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Ellen Cresswell 2 Derbys Wirksworth Derbyshire Wirksworth
Elsie Cresswell 2 Derbyshire Derby Derbyshire Derby
Gertrude Cresswell 2 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Nellie Cresswell 2 Derbys Ripley Derbyshire Ripley
Edith Cresswell 3 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Jane Cresswell 3 Derbyshire Bolsover Derbyshire Bolsover
Evelyn Cresswell 4 Derbyshire Derby Derbyshire Denby
Florence Cresswell 4 Derbys Ironville Derbyshire Codnor Park
Maria Cresswell 4 Derby Pilsley Derbyshire Pilsley
Ache Cresswell 5 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Ann Cresswell 5 Derby Bugsworth Derbyshire Of Chinley Bugsworth And Brownside
Bertha Cresswell 6 Derbys Kilbourn Derbyshire Kilbourn
Eliza Cresswell 7 Derbyshire Derby Derbyshire Denby
Grace Cresswell 7 Derbys Wirksworth Derbyshire Wirksworth
Maud Cresswell 7 Derbys Ironville Derbyshire Codnor Park
Millicent Cresswell 7 Derbyshire Ripley Derbyshire Bolsover
Sarah Cresswell 7 Derbys Ashbourne Derbyshire Melbourne
Eveline Cresswell 8 Derby Bugsworth Derbyshire Of Chinley Bugsworth And Brownside
Hilda Cresswell 8 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Jessie Cresswell 9 Derbyshire Ripley Derbyshire Bolsover
Annie Cresswell 10 Derbys Ilkeston Derbyshire Ilkeston
Gertrude Cresswell 10 Derbyshire Ripley Derbyshire Bolsover
Matilda Cresswell 10 Derby Pilsley Derbyshire Pilsley
Frances Cresswell 11 Derbys Ashbourne Derbyshire Melbourne
Amy Cresswell 12 Derbys Ironville Derbyshire Codnor Park
Sarah Cresswell 12 Derby Bugsworth Derbyshire Of Chinley Bugsworth And Brownside
Adelaide Cresswell 13 Derbyshire Derby Derbyshire Denby House Work
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PART 2
Age Where
Born Administrative
County Civil Parish Occupation
Edith Cresswell 14 Lanc Oldham Derbyshire Chapel En Le Frith
Emma Cresswell 14 Derbys Derby Derbyshire Derby Kitchen Maid Domestic
Emma Cresswell 15 Derbyshire Belper Derbyshire Denby Barmaid
Annie Cresswell 18 Derby Chapel En Le Frith Derbyshire Chapel En Le Frith Cotton Weaver
Emma Cresswell 20 Derbys Staveley Derbyshire Chesterfield Servant Domestic
Jane Cresswell 20 Derbys Ilkeston Derbyshire Chesterfield Housemaid Domestic
Agnes Cresswell 21 Lancash Liverpool Derbyshire Wirksworth Farmers Daughter In Law
Hannah Cresswell 22 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Harriett Cresswell 22 Derby Derbyshire Derby Lace Hand
Sarah Cresswell 23 Derbys Wirksworth Derbyshire Wirksworth Farmers Daughter
Alice Cresswell 24 Derbyshire Derby Derbyshire Derby
Lilian Cresswell 24 Derby Derbyshire Derby Lace Hand
Mahala Cresswell 24 Belper Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Mary Cresswell 24 Nottingham Derbyshire Alfreton
Eliza Cresswell 25 Derbys Shottle Derbyshire Wirksworth
Louisa Cresswell 25 Derbys Brampton Derbyshire Chesterfield General Servant Domestic
Martha Cresswell 25 Marehay Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Sarah Cresswell 25 Derbyshire Belper Derbyshire Derby
Mary Cresswell 26 Derbys Pentrich Derbyshire Ripley
Eliza Cresswell 27 Nottingham Derbyshire Sandiacre
Mary Cresswell 27 Derby Chinley Derbyshire Chinley & C Cotton Wadding Hand
Mary Cresswell 27 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Annie Cresswell 28 Derby Derbyshire Derby
Annie Cresswell 28 Derbys Kilbourn Derbyshire Kilbourn House Keeper
Annie Cresswell 28 Derbyshire Derby Derbyshire Derby
Rose Cresswell 30 Nottingham Derbyshire Sandiacre
Amelia Cresswell 32 Leicesters Leicester Derbyshire Ripley
Gertrude Cresswell 34 Staffordshire Checkley Derbyshire Shirland
Sarah Cresswell 35 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley Warper At Cotton Mill
Charlotte Cresswell 36 Warwick Cowndon Covent Derbyshire Hollington
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PART 3
Age Where
Born Administrative
County Civil Parish Occupation
Martha Cresswell 36 Derbys Langley Derbyshire Codnor Park
Alice Cresswell 37 Ripley Derby Derbyshire Ripley Seamtress
Eliza Cresswell 37 Derbyshire Belper Derbyshire Denby
Elizabeth Cresswell 37 Derbys Heanor Derbyshire Pleasley
Agnes Cresswell 38 Derbyshire Elvaston Derbyshire Denby
Annie Cresswell 38 Derbyshire Longford Derbyshire Hopton
Martha Cresswell 38 Derby Chinley Derbyshire Of Chinley Bugsworth And Brownside
Sarah Cresswell 38 Derby Denby Derbyshire Derby
Sarah Cresswell 41 Derbys Glossop Derbyshire Glossop Cotton Weaver
Mary Cresswell 44 Derby Chapel En Le Frith Derbyshire Chapel En Le Frith Cotton Weaver
Lydia Cresswell 46 Nottingham Derbyshire Ilkeston
Mary Cresswell 46 Derby Codnor Derbyshire Pilsley
Harriett Cresswell 48 Notts Hucknall Tarkard Derbyshire Ripley
Catherine Cresswell 51 Coxbench Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Mary Cresswell 53 Derbys Chapel En Le Frith Derbyshire Chapel En Le Frith Laundress Takes In Washing
Maria Cresswell 57 Derby Derbyshire Derby
Sarah Cresswell 57 Yorks Handsworth Derbyshire Alfreton
Sarah Cresswell 58 Derbys Wirksworth Derbyshire Wirksworth Farmer
Emma Cresswell 59 Derby New Mills Derbyshire Chinley & C
Martha Cresswell 60 Notts Stapleford Derbyshire Sandiacre Living On Own Means
Catherine Cresswell 62 Notts Greasley Derbyshire Alfreton Dressmaker
Charlotte Cresswell 63 Belper Derby Derbyshire Ripley
Hannah Cresswell 67 Derby Ockbrook Derbyshire Risley Entire Retired School Mistress
Sarah Cresswell 77 Staffs Hendon Derbyshire Hollington
Ann Cresswell 81 Derby Chapel En Le Frith Derbyshire Of Chinley Bugsworth And Brownside
Mary Cresswell 81 Derbys Bakewell Derbyshire Chapel En Le Frith
DO YOU WANT THE MALES
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Thanks for sending all this information! The Doris Cresswell jumps out at me because my grandmother's name was Doris. Doris' grandmother was Hannah Cresswell.
I had often wondered how/why my gggrandmother, Sarah Walters (d/o Hannah) chose the name Doris.
Is there any other information about this 10 month old female named Doris Cresswell?
Sorry its taken me some time to reply to your posting. I am a teacher and its tough to get around to enjoying my hobbies during the school year- :)
Thanks again for your help!
Sincerely,
Bev
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These CRESSWELLS can drive you crazy. I think and hope the best answer to all of this is to make a trip to the UK myself this summer (2005).
I never realized how common the surname is- guess its like Smith and Jones here in the USA.
Ok gotta go correct some papers and get my lessons ready for tomorrow.
Thanks again.
Bev
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Another little note from St James parish Church -monumental inscription within the church-In grateful memory of the men of this parish who sacrificed their lives for their country in the great war 1914-18-HERBERT CRESSWELL
May fit in somewhere!
The Cresswells from Heanor, Ripley area ran a very successful chain of supermarkets infrom approx late 1950's until 1990's -when the "big boys" bought all the supermarkets out!
1876 Kellys shows Thomas Cresswell shopkeeper at Codnor Derbys
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If this thread is not dead, may I intervene?
First, though, a greeting to all my Cresswell cousins.
My interest in this stems from the marriage of Mary CRESSWELL (b.1844, "House Wife") of Ripley, Derbyshire to John WHYSALL (b.1843; Collier). Hushed respect, please to my great-great-grandparents!
Mary Cresswell's parents were Robert CRESSWELL and Fanny BOOTH.
John WHYSALL's parents were William WHYSALL and Ann FLETCHER. This takes us into Pentrich, Derby (the scene, let it be remembered, of the last armed uprising in England). I am currently working on the assumption that this is the William Whysall christening 18 Sep 1803; Pentrich, Derby,
parents: William Whysall & Mirah Taylor.
Back to John and Mary:
Six children:
Frank (b.1859);
Susanna (b. 1863);
Thomas (b.1870: Grand dad!);
Frederick (b.1870);
James (b.1872);
German (b.1874)
That German Whyall lived in Swallownest, according to my father, and would likely be the "Mr and Mrs G. Whysall" in the obituary [the wife was Eliza - that's all I know at the momet]. However, I have the 1901 census address for German Whysall as "Cottage, Millstone Hill, Aston-with-Aughton".
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Hi John-do you haveany other children born to ROBERT CRESSWELL and FANNY BOOTH??
My G Grandfather was GEORGE CRESSWELL b. abt 1846-the son of ROBERT CRESSWELL married CATHERINE HUNT in 1845
ROBERTS FATHER WAS ALSO robert-HAVE NO BIRTHDATE ETC
Wondering if could be the one married to Fanny Booth?
GEORGE called one of his daughters FANNY-could this be after his gran?
Georges father ROBERT died when GEORGE was young-so poss George spent time with his grandparents who were ROBERT AND ?
My mind's racing!!!!
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Attention of Suzard:
Not sure I got that bit.
Let's clarify:
[Generation X] Robert CRESSWELL = Spouse unknown
At least one child:
[Generation X+1] Robert CRESSWELL = Fanny BOOTH
At least two children known:
Mary CRESSWELL (b. 1844) who marries John WHYSALL
George CRESSWELL (b. 1846) who marries [unknown]
So where does the former Miss HUNT fit in here?
I hope to be able to get a couple of hours later this week, to go down to the Family Record Centre here in North London. That might get us back to 1837. Apart from pursuing these Robert Cresswells, are there any other specific details needed?
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hI jOHN -WAS HOPING YOUR ROBERT CRESSWELL FITTED IN WITH MINE -BUT I DON'T THINK SO-HERE'S INFO I HAVE:
ROBERT CRESSWELL b. 1805 Miner married? ? died 1864 age 59
father of
ROBERT CRESSWELLb. 1825 married Catherine Hunt at Heanor St Lawrence 28 July 1844
father of
GEORGE CRESSWELL B. 1846 Langley Derbys married Elizabeth Walker Sisson
I am trying to find info on both ROBERTS
Thanks for your reply, Suz
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Re: Suzard's posting of 14th September.
This is probably of incidental interest, but I offer it for the record.
Suzard cited the list of marriages for St James Parish Church, Codnor, Derbys: FEB 9TH 1878:Bridegroom HENRY WALTERS 25 MINER father NATHANIEL WALTERS MINER
Bride:HANNAH CRESSWELL 24 father JAMES CRESSWELL BRICKMAKER.
Now compare the 1881 (also cited by spendlove, 6 July 1881) census for Aston Terrace, Aston-cum-Aughton, and we find:
Henry WALTERS; Head of household; Married; Male; aged 27; born Cinderhill, Nottingham; Coal Miner.
Hannah WALTERS; Wife; Married; Female; aged 28; born Denby, Derby.
Sarah Ann WALTERS; Daughter; Female; aged 3; born Rentrick [i.e. Pentrich], Derby.
Mary WALTERS; Daughter; Female; aged 1; born Aston, York[shire].
William WA[L]TERS; Brother; Male; aged 40; born Pentrick [i.e. Pentrich], Derbys; Coal Miner.
About three dozen households earlier on the same census listing, also in Aston Terrace, are the Whysalls, cited by me on 6th November. Hence, one reason for the presence of "Mr G.Whysall" mentioned in the obituary cited by Beverley Nicholson in her 6 July posting.
Aston Terrace was miners' cottages for the North Staveley colliery. The local name for this pit was "Top'o't'Hill". According to my father, it was "an old man's pit" — presumably because of the "state of the goin'". I have a local history society publication about the area somewhere in the house; but I'm not going to find it until our new kitchen is fitted!
And another piece of [almost-certainly irrelevant] information: three of the witnesses to the 1842 Royal Commisions "on the Employment of Children and Young Persons in the Mines and Collieries of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire and on the State, Condition and Treatment of such Children and Young Persons". from the Denby and Kilburne Pit were
No.315. James Creswell.
No.320. George Creswell.
No.321. Samuel Hunt.
Hey! I'm really getting into this!
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Hi John-just thought I'd confuse you again-my George Cresswell s father was Robert married to Catherine Hunt-her father was Nathaniel Hunt.
I have found Nathaniel Hunt on 1881(dont think it's the right one for me-BUT- he lived at Quelgreaves Farm(actually Olgreaves-but spelling wrong on 1881)-he had a son Samuel Hunt(mention it cos the name is on your post!)-actually his name was Samuel FOX Hunt!!!!!!-In 1881 at the farm my grandfather WILLIAM THORNHILL was a servant.
Coincidence is WILLIAM THORNHILL married ELIZABETH CRESSWELL-who is the daughter of GEORGE!!!!!
These coincidences drive you crazy-especially when you know they must fit in somewhere!!!!!!!
Sounds like you're addicted-me too!
If you come across either of my ROBERT CRESSWELL's would be great!
Cheers Suz
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Hi John-came across this marriage today-may be son of your GEORGE CRESSWELL???
St Lawrence Heanor
No 426 1st Jan 1898 -St Lawrence Heanor
ERNEST CRESSWELL 30 Butcher Denby Father GEORGE CRESSWELL Miner
married
ELIZABETH HUNT 34 Heanor father CHARLES HUNT Lace Manufacturer
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Hello to everyone!
I am so totally lost its unbelievable! I had no idea that this wonderful chat was happening- I am not getting emails notifying me of current postings.
Am I understanding that you believe that Hannah's father was James son of Francis Cresswell?
I thought James was the son of John...????
Oh my, I feel so far away from all of this. ???
I am so confused.
Bev
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This is, I am afraid, one of the useless "by-the-ways..." for which my family, et al., mock me....
I was starting to review the extent of these contributions, and trying to find some new approach.
Sticking to the Joseph Cresswell connection took me back to the 1881 census, when Joseph is keeping a "beerhouse" at Smalley. The only child left living with Joseph and Sarah Ann is a younger Joseph, aged 15, born at Horsley Woodhouse, and "unemployed".
Ker...ching! A small coin dropped. Horsley Woodhouse is barely a mile from Smalley, on the A609 road, heading west. Denby is a couple of miles due north. So we are dealing with very small distances here. Joseph Cresswell, born 22 December, 1865, at Denby, died 19 July 1932 at Birmingham. How do I know? Ah, well, a juvenile fascination for cricket, and hours reading "Wisden". Anyway, I refreshed on the detail at http://uk.crickinfo.com/db/PLAYERS/ENG/C/CRESSWELL_J_01029187/
So young Joseph was not entirely "unemployed" in 1881: he was out there playing up, and playing the game. Beverley, you have a minor sports celebrity in your family tree.
P.S. Should I explain "Wisden" for the benefit of benighted denizens of our ex-colonies?
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:D Well well, what an interesting tid bid. However, the hyperlink you've sent sends me to a home webpage with many other links (lol- including pet supplies for crickets) I'm not sure what to click on.
Please advise- and have a good day!
Bev
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Sorry, cousin Beverley, I was being too "clever" for my own good.
If you google the combination "joseph cresswell"+cricket you should turn up just half-a-dozen headings. Two might be of interest to you:
no 4 on my display refers to the Warwickshire Ancestors Project [www.hunimex.net/warwick/freecens/2380.html]. This shows that, in 1891, Joseph Cresswell is lodging with Mrs Sarah Stimson at 288 Sherlock Street, Birmingham. He is aged 24, and described as a "Professional Cricketer". That surprised me a bit: I had not realised that a bit player like Joseph could survive on the game alone. My guess is that he is playing for one of the local league teams as a all-rounder batsman-and-bowler. He played "first-class" cricket (i.e. at the County Championship level) for just five seasons in 1895-99.
no 5 on my display is the uk.cricinfo.com database entry, to which I have already referred. If you use this Google link, you avoid the log-in kefuffle which banjaxed you.
Meanwhile, I am trying a couple of other ways of creeping up on the quarry. More later, after I have dealt with my visiting electrician, fed my wife, etc.
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HANNAH Cresswell
Father JAMES CRESWELL Marriages
Spouse HENRY WALTERS
Marriage: 09 FEB 1878 Codnor And Loscoe, Derby, England
Husband Age 25
Wife Age 24
==============================
Husband
HENRY WALTERS
Marriage 09 FEB 1878 Codnor And Loscoe, Derby, England
father NATHANIEL WALTERS
no mention of mothers
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Just wondering if what you are citing says Cresswell after the name James. Ive seen one certificate that only mentions his first name.
If what you are citing, then there is not a question as to who Hannah's father was- right?
Thanks for your help.
Bev
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it does say james cresswell but it still could be wrong unless the name walters fits in with family sylvia
ok you do have walters in the family,i decided to check haha thats why i call myself oops
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We have a CRESSWELL in our tree as follows:
Caleb CRESSWELL Siviter.
born 1869 son of Solomon Siviter - born in Stafford
Any link do you think?
Also foreman giving evidence at an inquest in Bham on Caleb's son in law called Cresswell in 1910.
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I feel that Caleb Cresswell Siviter is worthy of a separate thread, probably in the Staffordshire or Warwickshire forums. To my (limited) knowledge, the Siviters (and variants of the name) are almost entirely based in the West Midlands.
For what it is worth, a Caleb Cresswell Siviter’s marriage is listed by the Records Office at Folio 6d, page 565, and included on www.freebmd.org. The marriage is in the second [June] quarter of 1890. There is a birth of another Caleb Cresswell Siviter, also at Aston, in 6d.364, and also on freebmd. Unfortunately, the records for Stafford are still a long way from complete on freebmd. Note the Siviters belong to Aston, Birmingham, not the Aston, near Sheffield, which is relevant to Beverley’s thread.
May I be permitted to summarise what I know and believe about Beverley’s original question?
The obituary notice from Hannah’s prayer-book (on the web in its authentic glory at http://www.pentrich.org.uk/html/cresswell.walters.html) is, for me, the clinching argument.
My great-grandfather was John Whysall. Date of birth is 1843. The 1881 census tells me his wife is Mary, and we know her maiden name to have been Cresswell, born 1844. This is Mary, daughter of Francis and Susannah Cresswell, and sister of Beverley’s James (both christened June 1837, a date from Beverley’s research). These double-christenings (Anglican and Non-Conformist) cause me real problems. Then, there are some pieces of circumstantial evidence which collaborate the relationship:
1. The same birthplace (Denby, Derbyshire);
2. John and Mary Whysall’s first two children are named "Frank" (born 1859, and, I now discover, officially Francis) and Susannah (born 1863, named as "Susana" in the 1881 census, but see below).
3. The Cresswells and the Walters/Cresswells were well acquainted: by 1881 they are living in the same row of cottages (which means working at the same colliery); and Hannah’s obituary shows "cousinage" to the Coundleys and to German Whysall (my great-uncle). Aston Terrace was rows of housing built by The Stavely Coal and Iron Company after the Aston Colliery (more commonly known by its locality as North Stavely Colliery) was sunk in 1864. John Whysall and his family seem to have moved there from Waingroves after 1874.
4. I suspect the obituary misprinted "Coundley" for "Cownley". I have Susannah [sic] Whysall's wedding lines. On 2 June 1884, at All Saints, Aston, aged 21, a spinster and dress-maker, she married James Cownley, aged 24, a miner. Both give Aston Terrace as their addresses. The witnesses are Francis Whysall and Sarah Whysall. James Cownley's father is also named James. In the 1881 census, it is twenty houses from the Whysalls to the Cownleys. The Walters family are sixteen addresses further on.
For me, this is conclusive. As Hannah and her family accepted the relationship with the Whysalls and Cownley’s, the link has to be through James. Therefore, James is Hannah’s ancestor.
Now the problem for me is to certify the link through William Whysall, recorded father of John, to a well-established genealogy. That, like Caleb Cresswell Siviter, is another story.
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;)
Hello everyone, and happy summer! Hope you are all well and staying cool.
Well, its official- my "cousin" in Australia sent me a copy of the 1861 Census of Derbyshire RG9/2513 Belper-Ripley Dist 14, Pentrich.
Hannah Cresswell (my gggrandmother) is the daughter of James Cresswell, brickmaker. She is listed as 9 years old in 1861 , the youngest of 3 children. Her father, James, is listed as 46 and her mother, Sarah is 47. Siblings include James (15)- coal miner and Francis (11)- coal miner- poor kid.
Following this line today, I am now into Browns and Horsleys as well.
Hope to hear from you again, and maybe someone has some insight into William Horsley, b 1690 in Derbyshire.
Have a good week!
Bev :D
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you never know
marriages
December, 1698
General
England
28 Dec 1698 *Horsley, William Thomas, Mary
===============
September, 1705
County: General
Country: England
03 Sep 1705 Horsley, William Sheffield, Eliz.
=================================
obituries
County: General
Country: England
Horsley, Wm., author of the "Fool." 10 Feb 1776 ,
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Keen-eyed rootschatters will recognise that I have had to amend some key aspects of my personal genealogy, included in my postings to this thread. This in no way alters the main thrust of the Cresswell argument.
I apologise for making a couple of key errors (and not wrestling the 1841 Census into full comprehension).
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Just detracting from the main thrust of the question, just how mant Cresswell descendants are there out there? My son is from the Creswell line orginally Denby and there seems to be hundreds of descendants out there!
Wish I was having the same luck with my line. ;D
Debbie
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Just to add to the general nature of the discussion regarding the elusive Cresswells, my GG- grandfather Joseph Cresswell was born about 1821 in Denby. I have never been able to discover who his parents were although I have tracked him through his marriage on 7 March 1852 in Codnor & Loscoe to Sarah Brightmore. On his wedding certificate he states his father was Joseph Brentnale.
His son Joseph was born in 1848 (mother unknown) in Ripley and married a Sarah Ann Hall on 23 March 1873 in Ripley. Joseph was widowed and then married Harriet Whysall (daughter of Abraham and Ann Whysall) on 28 April 1881 in Ripley parish church.
All in all, I have found researching the Cresswells to be a very long and difficult process!
marp
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Hello Marp
In 1841 Joseph c1821 was living with Francis /Mary Cresswell in Denby -possibly these were his Grandparents ?
Maybe Joseph was illegit and his father was Joseph Brentnall?
Marriage Pallots 1791 Denby
Francis Cresswell Mary Horsley
I have sent you images -but put parents instead of G Parents on Francis/Mary images
Suz
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Yes, think I have her.
I am working from a scratch file (the details will have to wait a return to London, and more time). I have Harriet Whysall, born 8 June 1851, Ripley, Derbyshire, daughter of Abraham and Ann. Christening 24 Oct 1852.
Greetings from a bright sunny morning in San Francisco! Keep grafting there, Marp: it only gets tougher.
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Greetings from Australia! Thanks for the information Suz and John Whysall. I keep adding small pieces of information to the Cresswell puzzle. However, progress is usually one step forward and several large meanderings as I grapple with the next question.
Yes, I agree Joseph Cresswell born ca. 1821 in Denby (whose father was Joseph Brentnale) was probably illegitimate. I have been through Denby parish register and there is no record of him there. I found the household of Francis and Mary Cresswell in the 1841 census for Denby and have considered they might be his grandparents. A minute piece of rather speculative evidence to support this is that his second son born in Kilburn was named Francis.
cheers, marp
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Hello everyone,
So, based on this new information, am I any closer to confirmation as to who Hannah Cresswell's father was- Joseph or James?
;)
Bev in Rhode Island
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;D ;D
hello all you crazy cresswell searchers looks like youve all been havin loads of fun ::)
i wondered if anyone would find this photo of interest
its of my great grandfather ernest kinder and his first wife minnie cresswell they lived in stonebroom and then shirland which isnt to far from denby etc probably 8 miles her mothers name was alice ,she was born in radford notts
ernest and minnie was married 1905, had 3 children minnie died betweem 1908 and 1919 ,ernest married again in 1919
i just thought someone would like an old cresswell photo ;D
think shes just stunning
gigg
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I have been mitching for the last few weeks, and need to catch up with the rest of the class. To get myself orientated, I attach a summary of the main points. Any crying errors or omissions, please correct and help me.
1a. Bev originally gave us a line of descent. This now seems to be Marp’s line and we seem to have have two separate threads. Since my surname crops up in both, I’m not giving up yet.
1b. We start with a bit of Regency hanky-panky, somewhat more advanced than would have been acceptable to the late Georgette Heyer. This amounts to the relationship between Joseph Brentnale and an assumed Ms Cresswell.
1c. There is a possible suspect here, if we stay in the Denby area: Joseph Brentnall, son of Joseph Brentnall and Ann [Palmer], christened at Denby on 4 September 1799. That might leave us looking for the unfortunate, betrayed Ms Cresswell. There is, incidentally, no male Brentnall married at Denby in a suitable timescale.
1d. Their natural child is Joseph Cresswell, born about 1821.
1e. Then we are looking for the next generation.
• There is the christening at Ripley, 11 January 1846, of the son of Joseph and Mary Ann Cresswell.
• There is another Joseph Cresswell, parents Joseph and Ellen, christened at Denby on 23 May 1848.
• There is a third (and triplicated in familysearch.org with incorrect dates) Joseph Cresswell, parents George and Sarah, christened at Denby on 6 August 1848.
1f. The records for Ripley and Denby seem to be complete and pretty reliable. FreeBMD throws up a handful of Joseph Cresswells born in Derbyshire in that timeframe:
• Mar 1845: Chesterfield (vol. 19, page 459)
• Jun 1845: Belper (19, 454)
• Sep 1845: Basford (15, 435)
• Mar 1846: Belper (19, 467)
• Jun 1847: Basford (15, 45[79]): I recall offering a “postem” on this entry, suggesting—as I recall—that 79 was the correct page number.
• Jun 1848: Belper (19, 470)
• Mar 1849: Belper (19, 4__)
• Dec 1849: Belper (19, 389)
1g. However, Marp says that her Joseph was born in 1848 (mother unknown) in Ripley and married a Sarah Ann Hall on 23 March 1873 in Ripley. Joseph was widowed and then married Harriet Whysall (daughter of Abraham and Ann Whysall) on 28 April 1881 in Ripley parish church.
1h. Joseph Cresswell marries Sarah Brightmore, daughter of Charles Brightmore, at Codnor-and-Loscoe on 7 March 1852. The register helpfully adds that the groom was 30 and the bride 28.
2a. Things got complicated when Bev accepted the 1861 Census to suggest another descent:
• James Cresswell, aged 46, brickmaker, is registered as living at Ripley.
• His wife is Sarah, aged 47.
• They have three children:
• James, aged 15, coalminer; Francis, aged 11, coalminer; and Hannah, aged 9.
2b. This seems to be the Hannah Cresswell whose birth is registered in the Belper District (vol 7b page 311), for the second (June) quarter of 1852. We believe there to be at least two siblings: James (born about 1846) and Francis (born about 1850)
2c. I have unresolved problems with that because of the link to the Whysall family in Aston (see the obituary in Hannah's prayer-book). I am struggling to see the link through to Mary Cresswell, born 1 June 1844, in my direct line. Obviously I was up a gum-tree here.
2d. We have a christening of a James Cresswell, son of Francis Cresswell and Mary, at Denby on 21 April 1816 (and notice the replication of names between the generations). Since the 1861 Census was taken on 7 April, it is possible that James would just be 46 on that day.
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Hi everyone, I have had a minor triumph of sorts which I would like to share with you. I have managed to sort out some things. Joseph Cresswell born about 1821 in Denby was married twice. Here is the story so far:
1) Joseph Cresswell (collier) married Ellen (or Eleanor) Hunt on 29 December 12 1845 in Duffield. I obtained the information from Duffield parish register. Both were resident at Bar-gate at the time. His father was Joseph Brentnall occupation farmer, and her father was Joseph Hunt occupation collier. The witnesses were Francis Cresswell and Ann Hardy.
2) The son of Joseph Cresswell and Ellen Hunt (also called Joseph Cresswell) was baptised on 23 May 1848 at Denby parish church
3) Ellen Creswell died in the March quarter of 1849.
4) The 1851 census for Codnor saw Joseph Cresswell age 28 a widower, occupation coal miner living alone. H0107/2125/450 p, 36
5) The 1851 census for Ripley H0107/21/45/81/11 saw his son Joseph living with his maternal grandparents Joseph Hunt and Jane Wood and their family at Street Lane.
Joseph Hunt head age 48 coal miner born Denby
Jane wife age 48 born Denby
Theodoria Hunt daughter age 17 dressmaker born Ripley
Joseph Hunt son age 15 coal miner born Ripley
William Hunt age 13 son coal miner born Ripley
Arthur son age 11 scholar born Ripley
Robert son age 9 scholar born Ripley
Joseph Cresswell nurse child age 3 (child at nurse) born Ripley
6) Joseph Cresswell age 30 occupation collier, married Sarah Brightmore age 28 on 7 March 1852 at Codnor & Loscoe parish church. On the marriage certificate his father is Joseph Brentnale occupation collier and her father is Charles Brightmore occupation miner.
7) In 1861 Ripley census, RG9/2508/71/24 location The Fields, Kilburn there is Joseph Cresswell head of household, aged 40, born Denby. Occupation coal miner. Wife Sarah Cresswell aged 38 born Ripley. Son Joseph Cresswell aged 13 born Ripley and daughter Mary Cresswell aged 7 born Codnor, Derbyshire.
Of course there is still the 1841 census for Denby to be sorted out which lists Francis Cresswell age 70 ag. lab. , Mary Cresswell age 65 wife , James Cresswell age 25 coal miner, Joseph Cresswell age 19 coal miner H0107-0188 Folio 12/35 p. 2
My own hunch is that Francis Cresswell and Mary Horsley of the 1841 Denby census were Joseph Cresswell's grandparents. Francis was a witness at his first wedding, and Joseph called one of his sons (by Sarah Brightmore) Francis.
As for Joseph Brentnale (christened 4 September 1799) - I agree with John Whysall that this is the likely fellow who fathered Joseph Cresswell. However, which one of Francis Cresswell's daughters was led astray?!!
Unfortunately I did not keep track, but when I was going through the fiche for Codnor & Loscoe PR I kept coming across the name of James Cresswell. I am not sure whether or not this is the same one as the 1841 Denby census but it is worth checking.
Hope this helps! I would not have come this far without help from others.
marp
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Of marginal interest to Cresswells, but related by marriage:
Hannah Cresswell's sister, Mary, married John Whysall. Their son, Thomas, married Sarah Mellars. Sarah Mellars' mother was Elizabeth Kirkby.
Which is the link to http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=202408.new#new
As I say there, any advice and short-cuts very welcome.
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:)
Hello everyone- just a quick note to tell you I am coming to the UK for a short visit at the end of July 2007. I am visiting relatives in the Chesterfield area and then will be on my way to St Petersburg with my daughter, Sarah. We are celebrating her graduation with a Juris Doctor degree from Georgetown University Law Center.
Bev
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PS Feel free to email me - (*) if you would like any photos or would like to meet with me in England.
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First of all congratulations to your daughter
I hope you both enjoy your holiday.
any particular names for horsley and brown
sylvia
ex derbyshire
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PLEASE NOTE THAT MY NEW EMAIL ADDRESS IS
(*)
THIS IS AS OF TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2007
THANKS,
BEV
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LOTS OF CRESSWELLS
SYLVIA
http://www.smalley-ops.co.uk/cresswells.html
http://www.smalley-ops.co.uk/baptisms1800-1820.html
http://www.smalley-ops.co.uk/burials1800-1837.html
http://www.smalley-ops.co.uk/people.html