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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: EdCan on Saturday 23 December 23 04:13 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing GRO death?
Post by: EdCan on Saturday 23 December 23 04:13 GMT (UK)
I want to order a digital image of Thomas Peers death  Jan 1932 Liverpool 8b 245. Both freebmd and Ancestry show it but I can not seem to find it on GRO. Is there any way to order the cert?

Ed
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 23 December 23 04:30 GMT (UK)
At the bottom of the search results there is a link “report it to GRO”
You can report the missing entry and say what you want to buy.

After a while  ;D you get to be able to.
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 23 December 23 10:28 GMT (UK)
You can order a certificate without using the online indexes the same way we always have.  Just click on 'place an order' in the main menu which will take you to the order page.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 23 December 23 11:39 GMT (UK)
None of these on the same reference are there

Deaths Mar qtr 1932 
Dover    Margaret    76      
Johnson    Jane    61    
O'Brien    Esther    1   
Peers    Thomas    55   
Liverpool    8b   245   


Dundee, Is it possible to order a digital copy that way  :-\
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 23 December 23 11:44 GMT (UK)


Dundee, Is it possible to order a digital copy that way  :-\

I wondered the same thing Rosie  :)
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 23 December 23 11:50 GMT (UK)
You get an option to order a PDF but it says you have to use their indexes to order a digital image.  You would have to do as mckha489 says and submit an error then wait for the index to be fixed.

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: MollyC on Saturday 23 December 23 12:00 GMT (UK)
Report the error, filling in what you expect to be there.  You can cite FreeBMD as a reason for believing it to be missing.  Then wait for GRO to check the error.  They create a page listing all your reports, and add their conclusions, which you can view from the search screen any time.  It may take a week or more.   If it is "found" then you can order a copy in the usual way.
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: EdCan on Saturday 23 December 23 12:56 GMT (UK)
Error has been reported. It will be interesting to see how long the wait is.

Thanks
Ed
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: EdCan on Tuesday 23 January 24 21:33 GMT (UK)
Well it has been a month since I reported the the missing death registration and I have had no contact from the GRO. I notice someone else has a topic re their GRO experiences.

Ed
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: MollyC on Tuesday 23 January 24 21:44 GMT (UK)
You need to look at YOUR page which they will have created.
To reach the page, make any search, go to the foot of the page and click to report an error.
Then on the NEXT page you have the option:
"You can check the status of errors you have reported previously here."
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: EdCan on Tuesday 23 January 24 22:43 GMT (UK)
Thanks. I forgot that page. Four years since I reported an error.
GRO comments were "No amendment required" and "Indexed data not available"

Ed
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: MollyC on Tuesday 23 January 24 23:06 GMT (UK)
It appears there is a group of entries missing, as reported by rosie99.  If the entry is not there you will not get a copy in any format.  Maybe try a contact-us email.

They ask us to "help us improve the quality of information available" but it seems from this and the other thread you mention they are quite inflexible about how they will allow themselves to be helped!  I think we need a concerted effort to question this.

Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Wednesday 24 January 24 09:23 GMT (UK)
It appears there is a group of entries missing, as reported by rosie99.  If the entry is not there you will not get a copy in any format.  Maybe try a contact-us email.
I have ordered dozens of digital images in the last few weeks.  For a few of my requests only PDFs and full certs have been available, and I would guess that in those cases all entries on those register pages would be unavailable ?  In my experience the chance of getting a digital image is around 90%.  Excellent service when it works !
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: melba_schmelba on Wednesday 24 January 24 10:36 GMT (UK)
None of these on the same reference are there

Deaths Mar qtr 1932 
Dover    Margaret    76      
Johnson    Jane    61    
O'Brien    Esther    1   
Peers    Thomas    55   
Liverpool    8b   245   


Dundee, Is it possible to order a digital copy that way  :-\
Order from a local registry office?
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 24 January 24 11:12 GMT (UK)
None of these on the same reference are there

Deaths Mar qtr 1932 
Dover    Margaret    76      
Johnson    Jane    61    
O'Brien    Esther    1   
Peers    Thomas    55   
Liverpool    8b   245   


Dundee, Is it possible to order a digital copy that way  :-\
Order from a local registry office?

You would not get a digital copy from a register office or a pdf so would have to pay full price
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 24 January 24 11:41 GMT (UK)
As I understand it, the format of the image you may receive depends upon the date and the progress of production of digital images.  When an error is reported it is not clear how far they check the source.  If someone points out an entry is missing then checking the digital source is not good enough, it needs to go back to the source of the digital information, i.e. the register.  That is the source of the old indexes and hence the entries in FreeBMD.

If they really want us to "help... improve the quality of information available" they need to appreciate the principles of handing information may require checking the original - as we do all the time with parish registers and census.

If somebody alerts them that there is a batch of information missing, they are wanting if they do not see a red flag and investigate properly.

Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: AntonyMMM on Wednesday 24 January 24 11:59 GMT (UK)
I think the phrase "Indexed data not available" tells us that there is a missing page(s) that was missed when the digitisation was carried out and  which contains that particular record.

I suspect, but don't know for certain, that any such missing pages will eventually be digitised - they issued a tender for imaging and transcription services last year -  but when that will be, who knows.

GRO will fall back on the fact that a certificate can still be produced if required , which fulfils their statutory duty.

it needs to go back to the source of the digital information, i.e. the register.  That is the source of the old indexes and hence the entries in FreeBMD.

Which itself is only a copy - they don't have access to the original registers.

Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: Jon_ni on Wednesday 24 January 24 12:46 GMT (UK)
Quote
Well it has been a month since I reported the the missing death registration and I have had no contact from the GRO

Notifications/Replies are are to your account rather than email https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_data_quality_error_reporting.asp
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 24 January 24 13:07 GMT (UK)
Jon_ni - See my post at 21.44 yesterday.

So they are getting by, doing the minimum for now, and producing a patchy result, which is obvious.  FreeBMD has used the principal of double keying by different people to minimise the probability of typing errors, and they deal with queries, but of course there are errors in the old index.  The new index is no more accurate than the old, just different.  We are fortunate to have both, but given that FreeBMD is produced by voluntary effort, GRO is showing itself up.

If a new contract is dealt with in the same way, the remainder of the work will be of the same quality.  What is needed beyond these terse reports is some general communication that they are aware, have a plan to deal with it, all these queries will be looked at again.  If they are serious about improving the quality of information, some of the funding should be set aside for that, even if it takes longer to complete.  Only then will their statutory work be assisted by a quality index.
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: Jon_ni on Thursday 25 January 24 01:08 GMT (UK)
Molly appears I read all of page 1 and missed page 2 entirely, thought I was replying immediately after the comment.
Title: Re: Missing GRO death?
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 25 January 24 05:09 GMT (UK)
Never mind, I often get lost amongst lengthy quotes!