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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: jms42 on Tuesday 12 December 23 11:47 GMT (UK)
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Trying to find marriage of Patty (also known as Pattie) Florence Shaw (nee Hirst) to Thomas Dyson, iron moulder, between 1912 and 1921. Have tried all name variations I can think of. Any help welcome.
Patty was born 8 April 1884 (bapt 26 Dec 1886). Her father was Fred Hirst, a mechanic.
She married William Edwin Shaw 19 Feb 1906, a master butcher, at Crosland Moor near Huddersfield, Yorkshire but he died in 1912.
In the 1921 census she is listed as Pattie Dyson (wrongly transcribed as Pallice) age 37 married to Thomas Dyson 44, an iron moulder, living at 11 Henry Street, Shipley (near Bradford) Yorkshire. The 2 daughters, Constance & Megan, are hers from her marriage to William Edwin Shaw.
Patty & Thomas are still at this address on the 1939 register.
Have tried all variations I can think of on FindMyPast, Ancestry and Family Search to no avail.
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It is possible that they did not get married for whatever reason. Thomas may already have been married and wasn't free to marry again. Have you found him in the 1911 Census and was he single ?
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Yes. I have considered they were "living over the brush". He is still at home with his parents and single in 1911. I will try another search and see if I can come up with a possible marriage for him between 1911 and 1921.
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They had a child together in 1914 so that might narrow your options for a previous marriage for Thomas.
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Another possible child
Elsie Mary Dyson
Sep 1912 North Bierley
mmn Hirst
1921 Elsie is with a Blackburn family as niece
Marriage
1894 Bradford
Freddy Blackburn & Annie Hirst
Do you have the death of William Edwin Shaw in 1912?
The only one I can find is William Ewart Shaw 29 died Bradford, also born there 1883
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He is still at home with his parents and single in 1911.
What birthplace is shown for him on the 1921 census?
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William Edwin Shaw mother Mary Ann Jebson father James Henry Shaw. Birth reg Sept qtr 1882 Huddersfield
William Ewart Shaw was b Bradford June qtr 1882 & the 1912 death is in Bradford so is not the death of the husband of Pattie. He is also not the 1936 death in Huddersfield - that was William Edgar Shaw also b 1882 Huddersfield
Would suggest you check the 1921 census for William Edwin Shaw b Huddersfield. If he was still alive - hence no marriage to Thomas Dyson
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I have been checking my notes and realise I have mistakenly put William Edwin Shaw's death as 1912. As Carole W has noted that was William Ewart - a basic mistake.
William Edwin is in the 1911 census in Lockwood, Huddersfield so his death is post 1911 but I have been unable to find it. However, I think I have found him in the 1921 census in the army as a private, single, in Ringley Ave, Horley, Surrey. The barracks is listed as Gatwick Camp, Horley, Type - Detachment, 4th Battalion, Queen's Royal Regiment (Defence Force). He might have put single because his wife had left him. I have been unable to find any other army record.
If this is the right one, it would explain why there is no record for Patty Shaw's marriage to William Dyson.
Any help tracing his death or any military records would be welcome.
Thank you to all the contributors so far.
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If William Edwin was in the army in 1921 and Pattie was living with Thomas Dyson with just 2 of her children to William Edwin and 2 more to Thomas Dyson, it probably explains why her 2 other children were not there - William Frederick Shaw is listed as Willie age 14 in a children's home at 24-26 Ramsden Street, Huddersfield and Zena his twin sister is a general domestic servant at Lymm in Cheshire. Presumably Thomas Dyson, or both of them, couldn't cope with twins as well as all the other children.
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What birthyear & birthplace is shown for William Edwin on the 1921 census?
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Freebmd/ GRO online only shows 2 births for a William Edwin Shaw between 1880 & 1885. Yours in Sept 82 & the other in Birmingham March qtr 1883.
There is a death in Prescot Lancs in March qtr 1952 for William Edwin Shaw aged 69
There is a 1939 register entry for a William E Shaw living in Prescot - you may want to take a look at his birthdate in relation to the qtr in which your William's birth was registered.
The only way to know for sure is to buy a digital copy of William's 1882 birth cert (£2.50) to get his full birthdate for comparison with the 1939 register entry
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In the 1921 census his birth place is Huddersfield, birth year 1883, age 37y 10m. I looked at 2 other possibilities - at Beech Cottage, Trafford Rd, Eccles and 43 Church Lane, Gorton but the birth places didn't fit.
His dob on the GRO certificate is 10 Aug 1882, father James Henry, Mother Mary Ann formerly Jebson at Hill Top Paddock Huddersfield.
The only listing in the 1939 register whose birth date matches is for William E. Shaw, married, Traveller Salesman, with Lilian M. Shaw married, born 14 May 1889, domestic duties. Both at 160 Liverpool Rd, Huyton with Roby.
His death certificate says he died 21 Feb 1952, age 60, at County Hospital, Whiston of bronchial pneumonia. His address is 160 Lpl Rd, informant L.M. Shaw, widow of same address. The only rather dubious point is his given occupation - formerly motor engineer and mechanic.
I will look for a possible bigamous marriage but it's more likely they were just living together.
Thanks to all for their helpful suggestions.
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His birthdate & middle name Edwin prove it is the same person. There is no marriage to Lillian so he wasn't a bigamist.
If Patty died after 1952 - that's why there was no marriage between her & Dyson
Lilian M Shaw died 1967 Prescot