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General => Technical Help => Reference Library => Topic started by: elliot on Tuesday 05 December 23 12:17 GMT (UK)
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*VERDUN AS A MIDDLE NAME AT FREEBMD SEARCHES. Why so few births when 1258 DEATH results recorded mostly in the period 1969-1995?
Births Jun 1916 (>99%)
ROWBERRY Wilfred Verdun TANSER Worcester 6c 244
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But results for DEATHS *VERDUN for period 1916-1920 shows 1258 results.
What might be an explanation for this disparity?
Perhaps an individual trancriber at FreeBMD has done specific research for *VERDUN?
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The old printed indexes that FreeBMD use do not show middles names, only initials, so you will find births indexed with just a 'V'. Have a look at the scan attached to your indexed birth. They are updating their indexes to include the full middle names. This may take awhile.
Debra :)
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Sorry if this is not relevant but after the battle of Verdun ,many children were given Verdun as a middle name .
Not heard of any named as eg— John The Somme Smith nor John Passendale Smith ——-.
Equally important battles.
Verdun was during The 1914-18 war.
Viktoria.
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However, look at the number of births registered in 1900 where Mafeking is included as a forename - male and female!! 8)
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One of my uncles was called Verdun, as his first name. Often misheard or misunderstood as Vernon.
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The old printed indexes that FreeBMD use do not show middles names, only initials, so you will find births indexed with just a 'V'. Have a look at the scan attached to your indexed birth. They are updating their indexes to include the full middle names. This may take awhile.
Debra :)
Debra, thank you so much for this explanation. I shall look forward to the progress as middle names are so valuable even if this 'Verdun' does not give clues to the ancestors!
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Sorry if this is not relevant but after the battle of Verdun ,many children were given Verdun as a middle name .
Not heard of any named as eg— John The Somme Smith nor John Passendale Smith ——-.
Equally important battles.
Verdun was during The 1914-18 war.
Viktoria.
Viktoria,
Mafaking and Mafakin have a small representation!
But LADYSMITH was very popular.
The double-barrelled forename!
Deaths Dec 1856 (>99%)
LLOYD Alma Balaclava Witney 3a 350
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So two Crimean War battles there, and a style of Winter hat ,The Balaclava!
Thanks.Viktoria.
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This sparked my interest as a cousin of mine had Verdun as middle name, not sure if the other Children had but I remember as she only lived to be 3 years old. I remember the tiny coffin was in the house prior to her burial. I was lifted up and asked to kiss her forehead, she looked like a doll dressed in a lovely white gown.
The only time that I have come across this name was "The Battle of Verdun" in 1916.
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1950 (>99%)
Hallett Angela V Capes Hull 2a 379 Scan available - click to view
Added I have just had a look at my other cousins' births and they don't have that middle name. I have just read Victoria's post and she too mentions the Battle,
Carol
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TREETOTAL,
thankyou so much for telling us about your memories of the death and funeral of your cousin Angela Verdun HALLETT.
What is of real interest is the appearance of this VERDUN name in your family in 1950. I wonder who and why this name was revived by her parents, so many years after the original battle event. Perhaps there is another person in your family who is being recalled and memorialized? Did her father survive that awful battle with his memories?
Births Dec 1950 (>99%)
Hallett Angela V Capes Hull 2a 379
Deaths Jun 1953 (>99%)
HALLETT Angela V 2 Hull 2a 165
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No, he wasn't born until, 1926 I don't know enough about the Hallett line as he married my Aunt, so not a direct line. Thanks for your interest.
Carol
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Sorry if this is not relevant but after the battle of Verdun ,many children were given Verdun as a middle name .
Not heard of any named as eg— John The Somme Smith nor John Passendale Smith ——-.
Equally important battles.
Verdun was during The 1914-18 war.
Viktoria.
I have heard of Passendale as a forename. Unfortunately it was spelt in the record as "Passiondale"!
Quite a common occurence to name chidren after battles or commanders. I believe it started during the Wars with France in the first decades of the 19th century with commanders, I know of several Nelsons and a few Wellingtons, usually born on the anniversary of their battle or its centenary. No doubt the French have their share of Buonapartes and Napoleones! (All pre 1815!)
Names of battles seem to have started during the Crimean War with Russia in the mid 1850s, I know of people name Sebastapol and Alma. The practice continued during the African Colonial Wars of the late 19th Early 20th Century with both the names of commanders Gordon and Kitchener, and the relief of Mafeking being commonly used. I have never heard of anyone named Khartoum though.
The practice was at its height during WW1 in which there are several, including the use of at least one instance of the battle of Messines in 1916. Is this worth a topic on its own to see what it brings?
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The spelling at the time of the battle was in the old Flemish which has been modernised .
It used to be Passchaendaele ,then Passendaele .
We say Passendale ,or Pashendale it formerly was quite a mouthful,
pass ch( hard guttural c) en daal ( long a sound )e.
Viktoria.
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[/quote]
I have heard of Passendale as a forename. Unfortunately it was spelt in the record as "Passiondale"!
Quite a common occurence to name chidren after battles or commanders. I believe it started during the Wars with France in the first decades of the 19th century with commanders, I know of several Nelsons and a few Wellingtons, usually born on the anniversary of their battle or its centenary. No doubt the French have their share of Buonapartes and Napoleones! (All pre 1815!)
Names of battles seem to have started during the Crimean War with Russia in the mid 1850s, I know of people name Sebastapol and Alma. The practice continued during the African Colonial Wars of the late 19th Early 20th Century with both the names of commanders Gordon and Kitchener, and the relief of Mafeking being commonly used. I have never heard of anyone named Khartoum though.
The practice was at its height during WW1 in which there are several, including the use of at least one instance of the battle of Messines in 1916. Is this worth a topic on its own to see what it brings?
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REDROGER
Many thanks for your historic overview,
IF the commemoration of these battles was at its height during WW1, was this the end of the era of static and named battlefields. Are there any similar battles of WW2? Do we now have faster moving and mobile encounters with Tanks? Military history is not my strong point.
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Alma was very popular both male and female. When used as a boy's name usually spelt Elmer. Alma was still in use as a girls name in the 1930s, the daughter of my aunt's neighbour was called Alma, if still living she will be around 90 years old.
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Alma is also a biblical name .
& A name of it's own right in some languages
In Spanish it means Soul
I don't know the Arabic meaning it is used to describe dancers .
So Girls with that name probably not named after the battle .
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Alma is also a biblical name .
& A name of it's own right in some languages
In Spanish it means Soul
I don't know the Arabic meaning it is used to describe dancers .
So Girls with that name probably not named after the battle .
With the connections between Andalusia I would guess at the same or similar meaning.i do seem to recall there was a Spanish connection in the case I mentioned,so perhaps.
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Alma was very popular both male and female. When used as a boy's name usually spelt Elmer. Alma was still in use as a girls name in the 1930s, the daughter of my aunt's neighbour was called Alma, if still living she will be around 90 years old.
REDROGER
I just tripped over this daughter and her mother already on my tree.
Mary Elma Alma Hovell Thurlow Cumming Bruce
1871–1894
BIRTH 21 AUG 1871 • Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland
DEATH 11 FEB 1894 • CHELSEA, , London,
and her mother,
Elma Cummings CUMMING BRUCE
1842–1923
BIRTH 19 JUN 1842 • Jamacia West Indies
DEATH 27 NOV 1923 • LIVERPOOL Lancashire, England
http://thepeerage.com/p12366.htm#i123658
Whose birth pre-dates the Battle of Alma 20 September 1854.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cumming-Bruce_family
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Interesting.Wjy I wonder.