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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 18:14 GMT (UK)

Title: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 18:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Guys, Looking for some fresh eyes on a Sarah Jane Dooley born 12 June 1875, 40 radford, woodhouse Nottinghamshire, England, parents George Dooley & Sarah Robinson I have Sarah's baptism 25 Oct 1903 Liverpool, Lancashire, England just before she gets married to Eliaz Neiman on 26 Dec 1903 they can be found together on the 1911 Census at 6 Babingley Road Liverpool with Sarah's sister Eliza Dooley (plenty of mistakes on the record names mispelt) Sarah's Occupation is a midwife her husband Eliaz Neiman dies in WW1 on 14 Feb 1917 this is where I get stuck if I were to follow half a dozen trees on various sites she has remarried a Daniel Benjamin Redford in 1917 Toxteth Park, Liverpool, Lancashire, England but there are 3 records the UK Midwifes Roll 1904-1959 for 1910, 1915 and 1920 if she is still down as Sarah Jane Neiman in 1920 then she cant have married in 1917 but not finding anything else after 1920 any help really appreciated. Rich
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 01 December 23 18:30 GMT (UK)
There are 2 marriages in 1903 for a Sarah Jane Dooley.
1. in Burnley to George Henry Sudders.
2. in Ashton Under Lyne to Thomas Glynn or John Corrington Holland.

Where did your Sarah Jane Dooley get married?
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 01 December 23 18:35 GMT (UK)
Eliaz Neiman married in 1901 to Jane Dooley.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 18:35 GMT (UK)
British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920, Regtry Office Bronnlow Hill Liverpool 26 Dec 1903, then together on 1911 census 6 Babingley Road Liverpool
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 01 December 23 18:54 GMT (UK)
I was using FreeBMD and LancashireBMD ;)
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: emeltom on Friday 01 December 23 19:06 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage
Sarah J Neiman/Daniel B Redford Jun 1917 Toxteth Park 8b 288
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 19:10 GMT (UK)
I was using FreeBMD and LancashireBMD ;)
The 1911 Census has them married less than 9 years

Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 23 19:14 GMT (UK)
1925 and 27/28 register of Voters
Daniel,Benjamin Redford and Sarah Jane Redford are in Seacombe.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 19:15 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage
Sarah J Neiman/Daniel B Redford Jun 1917 Toxteth Park 8b 288
Hi emeltom, everyone has this marrige down but the 1920 UK Midwifes Roll Document names her still as Sarah Jane Neiman surely her surname would be Redford if she had married the address is 84 Wendell Street Liverpool there is also a record for 1915 & 1910 they must come out every five years
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 01 December 23 19:17 GMT (UK)
I was using FreeBMD and LancashireBMD ;)
The 1911 Census has them married less than 9 years

The question asked on that census was "How many complete years of marriage?".
So, an answer of 9 years places the marriage in 1901, or early 1902.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: emeltom on Friday 01 December 23 19:27 GMT (UK)
It is always possible that she kept her maiden name for her work. If she had built up a good reputation as a midwife under the name Neiman, she may have kept the name after her marriage.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 19:32 GMT (UK)
That could be a possibility as I am not finding anything else under Sarah Jane Neiman but you can understand why im being a little skepitical with the record dated 3 years after a second marriage it just poses the question whether the 2nd marriage was correct and just wondered if anyone could see something I couldn't
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 23 19:52 GMT (UK)
Her address in the Midwives register in 1915 and 1920 is 84 Wendell Street.
Electoral registers show William Robert Hughes and Eva Mary Hughes from 1918 onwards.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 23 20:28 GMT (UK)
1921 census index
Wallasey, Birkenhead
Jane Redford b 1879, Nottingham in the same household as Daniel Redford b 1886
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 20:32 GMT (UK)
Sarah Jane was born 40 radford, woodhouse nottinghamshire, England 1875 I bought the digital birth the other day
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 23 20:40 GMT (UK)
Have you got the full date of birth?

Birthdates are not always reliable and it may be if that is her in 1921, the age was not correct.
If I am seeing the right Daniel in 1939, he is not with Sarah.

The marriage certificate would help though.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 20:46 GMT (UK)
Yes bought digital Certificates for her and 6 of her siblings
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 23 21:34 GMT (UK)
I was hoping she might be in 1939 register but can’t see any likely candidate.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 21:35 GMT (UK)
Lol just doing same thing
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 23 22:00 GMT (UK)
If you are sure re Sarah marrying Elias then it does all seem very likely.
Sarah /Jane Redford was older than her husband so taking a couple of years off might have been a plan.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 22:20 GMT (UK)
The 1911 Census has her Sister down Eliza Dooley as sister in law to head Elias Neiman with Eliza born 1880 Radford, Nottinghamshire, England which is bang on
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Friday 01 December 23 22:44 GMT (UK)
So that part is fine.
The next thing, how many Sarah J Neimanns are there?
Sarah Jane married as Jane to Elias so Jane Redford, b Nottingham with Daniel looks very likely.

Daniel Benjamin Redford died 1946, administration granted to Ethel Redford, spinster. Ethel was a sister to Daniel.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Friday 01 December 23 22:53 GMT (UK)
This bloody family been a nightmare with multiple marriages must take after father George he married 3 times I have only ever bought Births on GRO if I was to buy the digital certificate for her likely death in 1957 do you have any idea how much info you get, the death record everyone has for Sarah Redford age 85 Vol 10a Page 346 again this does not sit right with me as she would be born 1872 not 1875
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: emeltom on Saturday 02 December 23 08:38 GMT (UK)
Do remember that the information on the death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the person giving it. Ages can often be out by a few years.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Saturday 02 December 23 10:12 GMT (UK)
I think I had discounted her and was just checking when a ‘tree’ (very limited info) popped up.

Sarah Jane Redford birth 1882 England
Marriage in Canada quoted with a record which I can’t see though but the transcription reads
1st March 1926, York, Ontario, Canada

Sarah Jane Redford - father George Dooley Redford; Mother Sarah Robinson
Abel Ingleton
He seems to have been married a few times and died in 1929.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Saturday 02 December 23 10:42 GMT (UK)
I can see that Sarah Jane Ingleton married in York, Ontario but I have no other details.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Saturday 02 December 23 14:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone can anyone find a proper marriage for Sarah Jane Dooley To Eliaz Neiman in 1903 because I can only find the service Record for the marriage which obviously has no Vol Number or Page number like a England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 has if I could find that I could buy the marriage certificate
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: emeltom on Saturday 02 December 23 14:39 GMT (UK)
Dec 1901 Liverpool 8b 328
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Saturday 02 December 23 15:16 GMT (UK)
Thank you
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Saturday 02 December 23 15:22 GMT (UK)
What do you think about the Canadian connection?
It might be worth asking on the Canadian board to see if anything can be found?
I’m wondering if the Dooley connection is shown on the marriage record or if it has been added.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Saturday 02 December 23 15:45 GMT (UK)
Not sure Heywood something to look into If I'm not 100 percent I always ask for extra eyes on here been mega helpful over the years I don't like falling into the idea of just adding it just because everyone else has and already proved the Ancestry hints cannot be trusted with her father only takes a bad transcription and it throws everything out I will probably buy a few more records to try and tie it all together.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 02 December 23 16:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone can anyone find a proper marriage for Sarah Jane Dooley To Eliaz Neiman in 1903 because I can only find the service Record for the marriage which obviously has no Vol Number or Page number like a England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 has if I could find that I could buy the marriage certificate

FreeBMD search:
Enter surname as Neiman (NB Not Nieman!)
Enter date range as March qtr 1901 to December qtr 1901.

Only 1 result!
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Saturday 02 December 23 16:02 GMT (UK)
I understand. I thought someone might be able to check the marriage record.
I have my doubts as the age is out but just wondered if George Dooley was given as her father.
Having looked again at the blurred image, I think the parents are shown and am hoping I can see a clue.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 02 December 23 18:17 GMT (UK)
What do you think about the Canadian connection?
It might be worth asking on the Canadian board to see if anything can be found?
I’m wondering if the Dooley connection is shown on the marriage record or if it has been added.


It is on the marriage record.  Clearly down as father. - George Dooley Redford
Mother Sarah Robinson

Sarah Jane age 44 a graduate nurse a widow
Sarah Jane is the deponent and has signed (you might get another signature to compare it with)


Abel seems to have died in 1929 and the informant was his daughter who says he is a widower.
His grave stone has his two earlier wives but not Sarah Jane.

Added further..
In 1930 Sarah Jane Ingelton, 49, a trained nurse, a widow, marries Arthur Bourne in Toronto.  Her parents given as George Dooley & Sarah Robinson
Witnesses are Ingletons.

Added more..I have tried & failed to find Arthur & Sarah Jane BOURNE in 1931 Canadian census
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Saturday 02 December 23 19:19 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much, mckha489.
I could see the names but they are very blurred so didn’t want to pre-empt a proper reading of the record.
Good to see the next marriage too.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 02 December 23 19:24 GMT (UK)
Frustratingly…on the Ingleton marriage, Abel’s birth certificate is attached! I’ve not seen that before.. But not Sarah’s.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Saturday 02 December 23 19:26 GMT (UK)
Perhaps because she was marrying as Redford (was her husband dead) and she had given her father as George Dooley Redford.
I think also her age wasn’t her true age.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 02 December 23 19:31 GMT (UK)
Perhaps because she was marrying as Redford (was her husband dead) and she had given her father as George Dooley Redford.
I think also her age wasn’t her true age.

Agreed.

I don’t have the appropriate newspaper sub which might be useful.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Sunday 03 December 23 09:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone brilliant work as always
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: Fletcher42 on Wednesday 06 December 23 13:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Guys just a quick update found the passage to Canada on SS Montcalm travelling alone departing Liverpool 16 May 1925 arriving 23 May 1925 into Quebec for Sarah Redford, widowed. Sister: Mrs Widdowson, 29 New Marlborough Road, East Kirby, Sarah's youngest sister Bertha Alice Dooley born 1889 Basford Nottinghamshire married James Widdowson in 1907 and can be found in 1911 Census with her husband James and daughter Dorothy aged 2 at 32 Alvenor St Ilkeston Nottinghamshire, so the naming of the sister on the Canada incoming passenger list clinches it for me that we have the correct person as for Arthur Bourne according to his marriage to Sarah his occupation was steam fitter I did find a Arthur Bourne steam fitter and Mrs Arthur Bourne on a 1940 Canada Census York, Ontario, Canada Reference Number M-4775 which is a decent match but no deaths as of yet. Once again thank you for all your help been using this site for over ten years and never fails to amaze me how many people are willing to give up there time to help great community of people.
Title: Re: Sarah Jane Dooley/Neiman
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 06 December 23 16:31 GMT (UK)
That is good news.  :)