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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: johnny1588 on Monday 27 November 23 14:17 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
Im waiting for a paticular individual to be unredacted from the 1939 register. I know that people are redacted for privacy until they turn 100.The person I,m interested in turned 100 in May 2023. My question is, is there a certain time of year when undo all the redactions for that year and are then made public?
TIA
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I did a general search for information and it said the records are "updated regularly" when people turn 100 based on the birth date given on the register.
So you have to hope the correct birth date was given as lots are incorrect.
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I did a general search for information and it said the records are "updated regularly" when people turn 100 based on the birth date given on the register.
So you have to hope the correct birth date was given as lots are incorrect.
I have found quite a few where the day and month are correct but the year of birth makes them exactly one year younger. It's very strange.
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I did a general search for information and it said the records are "updated regularly" when people turn 100 based on the birth date given on the register.
So you have to hope the correct birth date was given as lots are incorrect.
I have found quite a few where the day and month are correct but the year of birth makes them exactly one year younger. It's very strange.
In my Career Researching I have found the Accuracy of the Birth Date on the 1939 Register to be about 60% Correct.
I have come to the Conclusion that the Copied Summary Page by the Enumerator that we see is because the Figures they saw on the Original Form Completed were illegible so they copied their best guess.
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I understand that FindMyPast update theirs regularly but Ancestry take longer. Have you checked on both sites
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I understand that FindMyPast update theirs regularly but Ancestry take longer. Have you checked on both sites
As far as I remember, FindMyPast update monthly, Ancestry update annually.
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I understand that FindMyPast update theirs regularly but Ancestry take longer. Have you checked on both sites
Yeah, looked at both today.
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Hi all
Im waiting for a paticular individual to be unredacted from the 1939 register. I know that people are redacted for privacy until they turn 100.The person I,m interested in turned 100 in May 2023. My question is, is there a certain time of year when undo all the redactions for that year and are then made public?
TIA
Why are you waiting for that individual to be unredacted ?
Surely you can get the information you want, without it .
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Hi all
Im waiting for a paticular individual to be unredacted from the 1939 register. I know that people are redacted for privacy until they turn 100.The person I,m interested in turned 100 in May 2023. My question is, is there a certain time of year when undo all the redactions for that year and are then made public?
TIA
Why are you waiting for that individual to be unredacted ?
Surely you can get the information you want, without it .
No I can't. He was born in 1923. Too late for the 1921 census. The 1931 census was destroyed. The only information on his name and abode is in the 39 register.
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Surely you know when he was Born and Parents Names and presume living with the Parents in 1939 ?
Presume you know when he Died? Possibly Married and Who and When.
How do you know he's Redacted ?
Or is it you have searched and found nothing?
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Surely you know when he was Born and Parents Names and presume living with the Parents in 1939 ?
Presume you know when he Died? Possibly Married and Who and When.
How do you know he's Redacted ?
Or is it you have searched and found nothing?
He wasn't living with his birth parents in 1939. He was living with his aunt under a different name. There are three people in the household. His aunt and his uncle are recorded, the third person is redacted. It may not be him. Until its unredacted I don't know. Apart from his birth certificate it is potentialy the only record of this person between his birth in 1923 and the 1941census.
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Wasn’t the 1941 census cancelled due to the war ?
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Yes that's correct.
Carol
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Not everyone gets unredacted. My great aunt and godmother is still redacted and she was born in 1901. Her daughter is still redacted and she died in 2006. My mother would have turned 100 last week but she died in Canada so she will remain redacted, as far as I know.
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I found a relative I was unaware of. She was born 03 March 1923 and the record on Find My Past was opened a month later. There are still 5 redacted entries, with 2 of them unknown, so I am waiting and looking monthly. Another relative born in 1895, I have her birth date, but she is not listed. Apparently not everyone were listed. My father, who did 15 years ago is still redacted, but knowing the information I have no interest in opening it. He went through life believing he was born in 1926, I struggled to find his birth registration. The day and month were correct, but he was born in 1925.
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I found a relative I was unaware of. She was born 03 March 1923 and the record on Find My Past was opened a month later. There are still 5 redacted entries, with 2 of them unknown, so I am waiting and looking monthly. Another relative born in 1895, I have her birth date, but she is not listed. Apparently not everyone were listed. My father, who did 15 years ago is still redacted, but knowing the information I have no interest in opening it. He went through life believing he was born in 1926, I struggled to find his birth registration. The day and month were correct, but he was born in 1925.
One of the original purposes of the 1939 Register was for issuing Ration Books. Also for Identity Cards.
The only reason I can think of for somebody not being listed, is if they were a member of the Armed Forces in 1939.
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I am surprised my mother ever got her ration book or got "unredacted". The entries for her area were so badly written, I eventually found her through her first name and birth date!
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If you are a FindMyPast subscriber you can request the entry is unredacted by submitting a copy of the death certificate for the individual that you believe the entry to refer to. If it is the same person you believe it to be, FindMyPast are usually pretty quick at opening the entry. I have had a couple completed within hours.
If, as a result of your application, FindMyPast decline to open the record because it is not for the person whose death certificate you have supplied, that in itself will partly answer your question ;-)
Select the "Request Record" link whilst viewing the relevant entry on FindMyPast and follow the instructions to complete the form.
If you aren't a FindMyPast subscriber, you can submit a similar request direct to TNA, but in that case there is a charge of £24.35 for the service.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/#10-how-can-i-open-a-record-of-an-individual-i-know-to-be-deceased
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The person I,m interested in turned 100 in May 2023.
And is still alive or no?
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The person I,m interested in turned 100 in May 2023.
And is still alive or no?
No. Passed away 2007.
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Did they die in England/Wales or elsewhere?
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Did they die in England/Wales or elsewhere?
He died in England.
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You are going on the 100 year it seems. Have they updated their Register since March? A quick google isn't pulling anything up, nor a search of their Facebook page, so would mean opening every Whats New? weekly blog after https://www.findmypast.com/blog/new/1939-worthing-burials
The info on TNA suggests that death matching was done, but was that just pre-release for the period 1992-2006?
After 2006 they have no English GRO death index entries on their site [dataset runs to 2007 but eg there are only 233 Smiths vs >7500 for 2006/5], same cut-off on Ancestry. After that Findmypast just has the partial Greypower indices 'England & Wales Deaths 2007-2021' online, which Ancestry suggests may be about 55% of them.
The GRO's own online index does not have DOB's. So whilst they open records for people alive or dead transcribed with a DOB of now over 100, but currently redacted from view, I'm unclear how/if post 2006/7 death matching is done. I know GRO deaths are available on microfiche in a half dozen libraries, perhaps they have access to that data too? By 'notification of a death' and the delays I think NAI mean after Death Cert submission to FindMyPast / FOI form.
Findmypast have checked the names and dates of birth in the 1939 Register against the General Register Office indexes of deaths in England and Wales and opened many records where exact matches are found. Furthermore, the records of individuals born 100 years ago (according to the date of birth shown in the Register) are opened at Findmypast.co.uk on a regular basis.
The version of the 1939 Register on Ancestry.co.uk is updated less frequently. Ancestry open previously closed records once a year, on average, and there is sometimes more than a year’s lag between the notification of a death and the opening of a record on their website.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/
The Register was updated until 1991, meaning that anyone who was born less than 100 years and a day ago but died prior to 1991 will have their record opened automatically. If the person died after 1991, we can accept scans of death certificates...
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1939register/1939-register-getting-started
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My brother died in December 2020 - born 1933. His previously redacted entry was opened by April 2021 on Ancestry so I was able to see he was evacuated & in another county
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I have a family member born 1937, died 2021, still redacted on FindMyPast, probably because the family surname was mis-spelled in 1939. It probably needs the death certificate sending to open it.
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An aunt of mine born 14 March 1922 is still redacted on Ancestry, but was unredacted on FindMyPast not long after she would have turned 100 if she were still alive. The date of birth is correct and very clear on the form.
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An aunt of mine born 14 March 1922 is still redacted on Ancestry, but was unredacted on FindMyPast not long after she would have turned 100 if she were still alive. The date of birth is correct and very clear on the form.
As far as I remember, FindMyPast update monthly, Ancestry update annually.
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An aunt of mine born 14 March 1922 is still redacted on Ancestry, but was unredacted on FindMyPast not long after she would have turned 100 if she were still alive. The date of birth is correct and very clear on the form.
As far as I remember, FindMyPast update monthly, Ancestry update annually.
My aunt would have turned 100 over 20 months ago, so should have been redacted by now if Ancestry actually do update annually
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My aunt would have turned 100 over 20 months ago, so should have been redacted by now if Ancestry actually do update annually
But only if Ancestry know of her death?
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I thought they were unredacted if they were known to have died OR they were over 100. There have been threads on RC mentioning that some centenarians have been unredacted even though they were still alive
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Hi
Three brothers, mother died in 1938 and were farmed out to various relatives of which there were many !
- one born in 1926 died 2011 - I can see him with his father in the 1939 Register
- one born in 1930 still living
- one born 1934 died 2014 - have searched both FindMyPast and Ancestry and I can't see him anywhere. This is my father in law. He's not with either set of grandparents.
I've contacted FindMyPast but I need an address for him: all suggestions welcomed.
Thank you
Nesta
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Have you tried searching for the third brother with a minimum of information? I found my mother by using date of birth and forename. She had a relatively common first name, but it only brought up 21 entries.
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The Irony is that the individual whom I'm interested in is redacted, born 1923 died 2007. His brother, living in a different
household born 1928 and is still alive Is unredacted. Shows that errors are made.
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My aunt would have turned 100 over 20 months ago, so should have been redacted by now if Ancestry actually do update annually
If her DOB is entered correctly and then transcribed correctly
If you had the situation per Reply 2 where the day and month are correct but the year of birth makes them exactly one year younger it wouldn't be opened nor if it was transcribed as 1931 instead of 1921.
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My aunt would have turned 100 over 20 months ago, so should have been redacted by now if Ancestry actually do update annually
If her DOB is entered correctly and then transcribed correctly
If you had the situation per Reply 2 where the day and month are correct but the year of birth makes them exactly one year younger it wouldn't be opened nor if it was transcribed as 1931 instead of 1921.
As I said in my original post her DOB is correct and clear.
An aunt of mine born 14 March 1922 is still redacted on Ancestry, but was unredacted on FindMyPast not long after she would have turned 100 if she were still alive. The date of birth is correct and very clear on the form.
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sorry, my error. Yes have seen many instances of open on FindMyPast and closed on Ancestry. Ancestry also don't tend to transcribe the street if the top row with it is redacted, they don't look back at the previous or next page. FindMyPast do that bit better, wish they had done the 1921 to the same standard.
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sorry, my error. Yes have seen many instances of open on FindMyPast and closed on Ancestry. Ancestry also don't tend to transcribe the street if the top row with it is redacted, they don't look back at the previous or next page. FindMyPast do that bit better, wish they had done the 1921 to the same standard.
FindMyPast have an agreement with TNA, stemming from their original transcription of the 1939 register, whereby they can make alterations to the register entries, such as opening redacted entries, and send the updated record to TNA. So the data exchange between TNA and FindMyPast in relation to the register is a two-way street, and is completed regularly. Ancestry have no such agreement, and simply obtain updates from TNA on fixed timescales. I can't remember what that timescale is, whether it is annually, quarterly, or whatever, although I did find a reference to it at one time. But entries viewed on Ancestry are, more often than not, going to be behind any amendments made through FindMyPast or TNA directly and may not reflect the changes for some time.
When I have submitted opening requests to FindMyPast, as I said in my previous post, they are normally quite quick in responding and I have had a couple opened within a matter of hours. I have been able to view the entries in that timescale also, although I think they say that it can take 24-48 hours for the changes to fully propogate through their systems.
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The Irony is that the individual whom I'm interested in is redacted, born 1923 died 2007. His brother, living in a different
household born 1928 and is still alive Is unredacted. Shows that errors are made.
Same as me, my grandmother is redacted and died 2014, her younger brother is also redacted (died 2017), two of her sisters are unredacted - both died after her - in fact one has always been visible since the release date and she died this summer
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Same here, two children in one household, one still alive but has always been visible, the other died in 2015 but is still redacted. Perhaps being married 4 times means she is lost somewhere in the system!
The Irony is that the individual whom I'm interested in is redacted, born 1923 died 2007. His brother, living in a different
household born 1928 and is still alive Is unredacted. Shows that errors are made.
Same as me, my grandmother is redacted and died 2014, her younger brother is also redacted (died 2017), two of her sisters are unredacted - both died after her - in fact one has always been visible since the release date and she died this summer
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Have you tried searching for the third brother with a minimum of information? I found my mother by using date of birth and forename. She had a relatively common first name, but it only brought up 21 entries.
Yes I have even tried birth day and month over a 5 year period with no name . 😢
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Hi
Three brothers, mother died in 1938 and were farmed out to various relatives of which there were many !
- one born in 1926 died 2011 - I can see him with his father in the 1939 Register
- one born in 1930 still living
- one born 1934 died 2014 - have searched both FindMyPast and Ancestry and I can't see him anywhere. This is my father in law. He's not with either set of grandparents.
I've contacted FindMyPast but I need an address for him: all suggestions welcomed.
Thank you
Nesta
You wont find them in an index search. This is because based on their year of birth they would be under 100 years old and therefore the system will deem them still to be alive. If dead you'd need to submit their d/c to have the record opened up.
CD
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In my Career Researching I have found the Accuracy of the Birth Date on the 1939 Register to be about 60% Correct.
I have come to the Conclusion that the Copied Summary Page by the Enumerator that we see is because the Figures they saw on the Original Form Completed were illegible so they copied their best guess.
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ALAMO2008 suggests transcribed birthdates are only about 60% correct.
My trust has now taken a severe setback as I have always assumed these birthdates to be mostly correct as each adult person would have wanted their Ration Book and give an accurate date!
I agree that some dates are illegible or written over but I do welcome the chance for a full birthdate to supplement the baptismal date and the Quarter from the Birth Indexes.
I wonder if any future census will publish full birthdate rather than mere 'age'.
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In my Career Researching I have found the Accuracy of the Birth Date on the 1939 Register to be about 60% Correct.
I have come to the Conclusion that the Copied Summary Page by the Enumerator that we see is because the Figures they saw on the Original Form Completed were illegible so they copied their best guess.
[/quote]
ALAMO2008 suggests 1939 transcribed birthdates are only about 60% correct.
My trust has now taken a severe setback as I have always assumed these birthdates to be mostly correct as each adult person would have wanted their Ration Book and give an accurate date!
I agree that some dates are illegible or written over but I do welcome the chance for a full birthdate to supplement the baptismal date and the Birth Index quarters.
I wonder if any future census will publish full birthdate rather than mere 'age'.
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Not sure whether the actual birthdate will appear when the 2021 census is finally published, but as I made a copy of our submission I do know that the question was asked.
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You wont find them in an index search. This is because based on their year of birth they would be under 100 years old and therefore the system will deem them still to be alive. If dead you'd need to submit their d/c to have the record opened up
As I mentioned in my post - I'm looking for the third brother who died in 2014 and I don not have an address to request the record to be opened. Was asking for any suggestions as to how to search for him.
Nesta