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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: jon541 on Wednesday 15 November 23 12:27 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know anything about progress on the above, now clearly not slated to re-open as advertised 'in late 2023'.
I have been watching the Twitter feed for "The Story" for a year now and in all that time it has studiously avoided giving *any* information on project progress - in a twelvemonth, just one tweet about the archivists working on moving the original parish registers, otherwise other unrelated local history stuff on a daily basis:
https://twitter.com/thestorydurham?lang=en
Similarly, the official project page hasn't been updated in yonks:
https://www.durham.gov.uk/article/23983/The-Story-so-far-and-next-steps
I am forward-planning a research trip in January 2025 and would love to think it might be open by then. Am I being overly pessimistic in having doubts?!
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I have no info about when it will open, but have 'really' missed the quick search facility to get copies of records.
Given that there have been no updates at all, anywhere (and I too have been looking), I would guess that the projected date of late 2023 is unlikely to be met. Though I'd think that your planned trip in Jan 2025 is in with a good chance :-)
Boo
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I was recently advised that the project is far from complete at present. The phrase ‘ a long way to go’ was used :-X
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Thanks both, even if you're confirming my own pessimism! It seems to be a case of 'no news is bad news' :(
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I had a firkle round the web, there's a contact on this page who has a county council email address. Try an email to them to see if they can shed any light?
https://www.countydurhamvolunteering.org.uk/organisation/the-story-at-mount-oswald--1602
I don't do the Facebook thing but asked a friend to send a message to the county council page to enquire, will report back if there is a reply.
Boo
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and the reply to the FB message says they don't yet have a date and suggest keeping on checking the website as it will be announced when they do have one.
so nothing we didn't already know :-)
Boo
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Thanks again Boo ... you do wonder if anyone considered closing the original archives *after* the new building was ready to receive them. I'm sure it would still have taken months to move all the miles of shelving of records but the key is in 'months' rather than 'years'.
Or if anyone considered that most family history lookups were done via the microfilm readers and a few shelves of indexes/transcripts and so not dependent on a major move plus entirely self-service.
That said it's the local historians I feel most sorry for and anyone trying to write a book, a thesis or a dissertation needing access to Durham source materials. Given that Durham was the last local record office to re-open after Covid ... and for a very brief period before shutting again ... it will soon be 3 years without access.
So as not to appear too much of a moaner, I'm trying to look on the bright side also and hoping that some of the hints on the project page about digitisation extend to parish registers. If the new record office plans to roll out something like the system at Woodhorn that would be great. It feels increasingly 'stone age' in 2023 to be spooling through microfilm, particularly on the old hand-cranked specials :-) I've been a visitor to Tyne and Wear Archives since 1985 and they're still using the same machines as then!
Thanks again for putting out some feelers on the FB page.
Jon
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Some news!
According to an update on "The Story" Twitter/X feed, Carolyn Ball (Durham County Archivist) is giving a talk on Thursday 1st February at 7 p.m. in St. Andrew's Church Coxhoe entitled "Starting the next chapter - 'The Story' at Mount Oswald: a behind-the-scenes insight into the development of the new home of Durham County Records Office, the DLI Collection, Local Studies and Historic Environment Record."
Admission is £3 including refreshments and although the talk is to the Coxhoe Local History Group, the ad. makes it clear that all are welcome.
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That sounds like an opportunity to ask some penetrating questions. I have every sympathy for the staff because they are probably trying to do this task with staffing levels much reduced from say ten years ago. There would not be sufficient bodies to keep a "reading room" open and also do the removal.
This is evident everywhere across archives, libraries, museums, regimental museums, historic environment records. The solution seems to be to merge them in one building. Then, to keep the doors open, staff have to stand-in for colleagues expert in different disciplines . Mistakes are made, an acquaintance suffered one example just after covid, when museum staff involved themselves with an archive deposit. All these services are at the thin end of reduced local government funding when major statutory services have had their slice. Some of these services are statutory, but in varying ways.
Museums are not. My local regimental museum used to receive funding equivalent to one member of staff which was cut by the MoD about 25 years ago. Archives have responsibilities to different bodies for various classes of records: diocesan, manorial, local health and court records, pre-1974 local authorities. That is just to look after them, not to make them available 5 or 6 days a week. Public libraries have a statutory responsibility to provide "an adequate service". Around 1990 this was eventually defined in detail, and then rapidly watered down. A local studies library closed for any extended period is not an adequate service, but it seems to have become acceptable.
Smaller numbers of staff now have to spend part of their time writing bids for money for specific projects, in order to survive. There is no spare money for new microfilm readers, parts for the old ones become a problem. One archive service was reduced to asking its "Friends" group to fund the purchase of acid-free archive storage boxes, which are not cheap, but should be a standard stationery item.
An election is looming, all these matters are out of sight when canvassing begins and nobody is seriously interested.
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The opening is now forecast to take place in early summer this year
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/24053377.story---durhams-new-archives-museum---delayed/
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Thanks for that Jen - looks like we can start to dream of accessing the records again.
Molly - I take your point that some archives show distressing signs of "broken Britain" and budgetary cuts. I'm hoping that The Story will be like Northumberland Records Office by which I mean that it will provide a good environment for research (whether or not shared with other council services) and some innovation in the provision of records previously only available on microfilm, i.e. that they'e started down the digitisation track. I feel sorry for the staff at Tyne and Wear, clearly underfunded, understaffed and coping with a dwindling number of knackered old microfilm readers.
I'm optimistic about "The Story". Don't start me on the daft name though - I already have to remember that "The Word" is actually South Shields Library, "The Hive" is Worcester Records Office and Library (near where I live currently), "The Great North Museum" is the Hancock and now "The Story"... sheesh. Life was so much easier with plain old {insert county here} Records Office. The marketing wonks have taken over!
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Just seen a DCC post on Facebook that they are opening 14/06/2024.
Jay
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Good news :-) thanks JayG!
Boo
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Just seen a DCC post on Facebook that they are opening 14/06/2024.
Jay
Hooray :D -- Looks like I'll have to pre-book a seat to beat the rush ::)
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The Story fully opens on Monday. Friday and this weekend are open days.
I popped in yesterday.
The 'collections room' is open Monday to Friday 10 - 4. Previously Wednesday was their late opening, this is now Thursday but only until 7pm. It isn't clear on the website that they actually have a late opening.
The 'search and discover' space is open Monday - Friday 9 - 5 (7pm on Thursday's), Saturday and Sunday 10 - 5.
They aren't bring any mircofilms from County Hall. They will be available digitally on computers in the 'search and discover' space.
Yesterday the only things that had been uploaded were 3 different parishes so there's a long way to go yet! A member of staff I was speaking to said more was being uploaded over the weekend but I'm not sure if that means all the previously microfilmed records would be available by Monday or if they are doing it in tranches.
It don't sound like they were bringing any of various indexes either as these are going to be available to search on the computers too, in a separate database from the previously microfilmed records.
The new website is still a work in progress. Once all the content is uploaded at some point the old website will be retired.
They had a few differently themed displays on (presumably they'll still be on today and tomorrow). One of them was about the 1909 West Stanley pit disaster, which included not only the actual burial registers of St Andrew's CoE Church and St Joseph's RC Church showing the burials of some of the miners but an actual death register showing some of their death registrations. This I was very surprised to see! The Story now houses all the historical BMD registers previously held at Bishop Auckland Register Office, access hasn't changed though you still need to apply and pay for a certificate.
I was going to book in next week to go and do some research but I think I'll leave it a few weeks until they've got all the content sorted and things ironed out. Plus I need to sort out my various scraps of paper with things I've been wanted to check/look up since they been closed and from about three years prior to that!
Jay
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Many thanks for the update. Like you, I was eager to 'book in' but I think that I will leave it for a few weeks as well.
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Likewise, many thanks for posting such an informative update JayG. And, like Allan I'm pleased now that I managed to resist the temptation to be there at the start if not everything that was at the old County Hall is going to be available immediately.
I've been wondering if the new records office would make the leap into the 21stC by dumping the old MFs so thanks for answering that question too! I suspect that they will indeed be making the digital images available in tranches as you suggest so anyone planning to research in the coming weeks might be well advised to check in advance whether their key parishes are available if travelling from a distance (like myself).
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They aren't bring any mircofilms from County Hall. They will be available digitally on computers in the 'search and discover' space.
JayG do you know if these digital images were taken from the microfilms or from the original registers?
Yesterday the only things that had been uploaded were 3 different parishes so there's a long way to go yet! A member of staff I was speaking to said more was being uploaded over the weekend but I'm not sure if that means all the previously microfilmed records would be available by Monday or if they are doing it in tranches.
I was told (within an email conversation) yesterday that currently registers from just 5 churches are available on that system with more to be added 'over the coming weeks' - no mention of how many weeks are envisaged before completion. Self service copies from this digital register viewer, once its fully operational, will cost £1, so very good value.
I'd emailed them as I've been round and round that website and can find no information whatsoever about copy charges. For me, remote copy requests are the only option, distance, cost of travel and health means that visiting is very unlikely. I asked if the Quick Search Service was to be reactivated, I used that a lot and also praised it widely in RootsChat and elsewhere.
Good news is that even though the online shop not yet reinstated copies of Parish Register entries can still be ordered via Quick Search, currently if you email with specific details: name of parish, name of person, event (baptism, marriage, burial) and year (they will search one year’s worth of entries).
However the Bad News is that there is an 80% price increase from the £5 it used to be to a whopping £9 !
I have replied and said that though I'd envisaged an increase, I am almost speechless at such a large percentage. It means I won't be able to use it as regularly as I did and given the cost it will drop off my recommendation list.
Boo
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I visited at the open weekend and they said that for access to the computers in the search and discover, it’s not bookable, it’s first come first served and they are going to see how that goes. However if you want to see actual physical documents , you have to book in advance to look at them in the viewing room or whatever it’s called. It’s nice and light though. I don’t know if it’s changed booking wise since then but that’s what we were told.
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As they haven't brought any of the microfilms readers over and on 9th July I was informed that only 5 churches' Parish Registers were available on the computers (an increase of 2 churches between when JayG asked on 14 June and yesterday) I'd suggest that before anyone goes to visit they find out IF original Parish Registers will be available to view (though a slot and what you want to look at would have to be booked in advance for that) until the computer access is complete.
I looked at the old site at the list of church registers:
https://durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/search-options/search-church-registers/church-search-results/?SearchType=AtoZ&SearchStart=Y
Clicking on each letter gives a count of the number of churches, the grand total comes to 1074 - so holding breath for completion would seem to be inadvisable :-)
Boo
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Hi Boo, thank you for the update. Have you tried to 'phone them? The reason I'm asking is that a friend (lives in Reading) has tried several times but all she gets is a pre-recorded message.
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By my calculations, at the current rate of progress (2 parishes added since opening), it will be 45 years before all of those 1074 parishes are available digitally.
Tempting to make a facetious booking for 2069, not that I will be around then to use it.
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Hi Boo, thank you for the update. Have you tried to 'phone them? The reason I'm asking is that a friend (lives in Reading) has tried several times but all she gets is a pre-recorded message.
No, not tried phoning. I rarely phone any company/ organisation- public or private -with queries because I have no idea how busy they are and email is less instant - plus I then also have a record of the query and the reply so there's less chance of a subsequent dispute over what was said.
Boo
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By my calculations, at the current rate of progress (2 parishes added since opening), it will be 45 years before all of those 1074 parishes are available digitally.
Tempting to make a facetious booking for 2069, not that I will be around then to use it.
aww be fair, 'some' of the churches on the list will be tiny so wont take as long :-) I think you can shave a few years off your booking date at least
Boo
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I would be interested to know where Durham Record Office/The Story stand legally under the Parochial Registers and Records Act of 1978 vis-a-vis the provision of access to the registers under their care. My understanding of it is that under a 1992 amendment to the act they are allowed to refuse access to an original register of baptisms or burials on grounds of conservation only if they provide a 'surrogate' (e.g. a microfilm, printed, or digital copy). For some reason, marriage registers appear to be dealt with separately.
The purpose of the original act was to ensure the preservation of the originals by forcing their deposit in a diocesan record office (in practice usually a county record office) unless the originating parish could prove that they could provide the necessary security and environmental conditions. This was also partly in response to an increased demand for access from genealogical researchers. I remember consulting the Chester-le-Street registers at the parish hall back in the 1980s as they had, at that time, chosen to retain them on site.
Perhaps I am misreading the legislation (link below for anyone with a higher boredom threshold than me for reading legalese) but is it really acceptable to say that there will be no access to the records they hold until digitized? And I know it would seem a bit regressive to have the old microfilm system in operation in their shiny new premises but for the sake of a couple of cabinets and a few readers, would that not have been possible during the interim period while digitizing?
Just thinking aloud here ...!
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukcm/1978/2/contents
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I would be interested to know where Durham Record Office/The Story stand legally under the Parochial Registers and Records Act of 1978 vis-a-vis the provision of access to the registers under their care. My understanding of it is that under a 1992 amendment to the act they are allowed to refuse access to an original register of baptisms or burials on grounds of conservation only if they provide a 'surrogate' (e.g. a microfilm, printed, or digital copy). For some reason, marriage registers appear to be dealt with separately.
I hope my post hasn't misled you jon541, I said that checking before visiting to find out IF the originals will be available would be advisable (as most archives, in line with that legislation, only give access if no alternate is available).
I didn't mean to imply the originals are not available as I don't know for sure one way or another.
Though some/any info on the website would 'really' help to clarify things for potential visitors.
Boo
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Yes, clarification would indeed be a good thing. Frankly, I'd be very surprised if their plan is to allow people to see the originals since Durham, in particular, have always been very protective of those (as indeed they have a duty to be). Even in the 1980s when Northumberland used to allow original registers to be piled on top of each other on desks, Durham had gone down the microfilm-only line.
Again, surely the most rational solution would have been to continue with the MFs until there was a viable alternative. I can't imagine that space is an issue in their new home.
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I think you are correct. There has been too much presumption generally that statutory services can be suspended or closed at will. When this legislation was passed there was no suggestion that facilities would not be available. The local authority has spent millions on building work, but not provided timely digitisation to go with it. Now they seem to be offering an expensive search using up staff time for something you would expect to do for yourself. Ask some questions.