RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: ork23110 on Monday 13 November 23 18:07 GMT (UK)
-
Hi, marriage lookup request for Thomas O'Donoghue father Andrew between 1893 and 1899, sorry no other info available. J
(O'Donohue alternative)
-
It is mentioned in your other thread but only from the index.
Here it is
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11393/8183332.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ Is working again now.
-
Duplicate posts result in wasted time & efforts
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=878064.msg7500928#msg7500928
-
Oh I thought it meant the parents’ marriage!
-
Hi CaroleW sorry for the apparent duplication but I thought he might be married in Cork and not Dublin so as I have very little to go on I thought it might be better to search in both, I didn't think that those helping would be looking in both, if that makes sense, and heywood thanks it's records of Thomas that have evaded me. J
-
Hi J - It's easy enough to search the civil records for a marriage if you have both husband and wife's name. If your original district doesn't come up, try it without choosing a district, just enter either husband or wife's name in the search in the civil records (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/agreement.jsp) and then do a Find down the whole lot for the spouse's name when the results come up. Of course, this doesn't apply so much when Patrick Byrne has married Mary Dunne, say!
(Sometimes, for some odd reason, I can't find a marriage if I try one name (eg Patrick Byrne), but then try the same search using the other (eg Mary Dunne). And I find it's easier, if I have a rough idea when the marriage was, to bracket three or four years at a time; eg 1892 to 1896.)
-
Thanks Abhanliath, tried it but no luck (when it was working). I generally find it very hit and miss, I could try one day and get nothing and a few days later try the same search and get a result other times I've gotten a result first and if I go back later nothing it's frustrating. J
-
have you found Thomas , or Andrew, on the 1901 census ? any idea where he went or names of any of his children or if he actually married ?
It's a very wide search without some idea re the 'where' and without bride's name (which I presume you dont have)
-
Thanks Abhanliath, tried it but no luck (when it was working). I generally find it very hit and miss, I could try one day and get nothing and a few days later try the same search and get a result other times I've gotten a result first and if I go back later nothing it's frustrating. J
Ah yeah, the Civil Records went down from last Thursday till sometime on Monday. This is a season when many people, including IT support, tend to catch colds (or flu or covid, both of which are flying around) and not be able to get to work.
I mostly find it ok, with a few flaws.
If you're successful with a search, save the result, and then you won't need to try the same search again. I find the best way to save it is like this:
"1899 Patrick Byrne and Mary Dunne marriage registration; he's in 109 Seville Place, Dublin, she's in Baltinglass, Co Wicklow; his father William is a box manufacture, her father George is a DMP constable"
And I'll put that into a file called, say, "Patrick Byrne", if he's the one whose records I'm looking for. Then I'll go to the census records and look for William Byrne, box manufacturer, and hopefully find Patrick living with William in either 1901 or 1911 (or both), and this will give me Patrick's age, more or less (depending on class, etc, some people were a little freehand with ages). And it'll tell me that Patrick was born in Longford. So then I can go back to the civil records and look for his birth registration.
By the way, if you don't find O'Donoghue, trie O'Donohue and O'Donoghoe and so on. The clerics and civil servants writing down these records weren't always exact with their spellings. Same with the censuses; these were handwritten and then transcribed in India, and the transcribers sometimes misread the name.
I'll also check the Dublin voting records at http://databases.dublincity.ie/burgesses/advanced_new.php - again, you need to fiddle around with this at times, clicking on the different searches, to find William, box manufacturer, at the address he was in one or both of the censuses, and this will tell you, say, that William lives in a house in Seville Place where he has the front parlour only, or the house and garden.
If you find a result, though, don't just say "Oh, goody" - save it in the right folder, and go on.
-
AthCliath62, Thomas not found on 1901 census but neither is his brother Michael, the remainder of the family are on the 1901 census having moved to Cork father Andrew is listed as an electrician, so perhaps and am surmising here that he worked in Dublin on the building of the tram system and associated electrification and moved to Cork with the work when Michael Martin Murphy got the contract for Cork. His older brother Michael not on census was in fact with the Munster fusiliers in South Africa (Boer war). His brother Andrew also joined the RMF and was kia in France. So no family from that era or immediate descendants to ask. It's really a shot in the dark thanks J.
-
You never know, you may suddenly get a line into the family and then they'll all magically appear - researcher's luck. I was just looking for someone and went down completely the wrong badger hole, then stopped and corrected and *ping* there he was!
-
Are you just trying to find out if he married or do you know that he did?
He may have married in England as he was in the army.
-
Hi heywood, the problem is that I just don't know if the soldier in 2RDF is my gguncle, I was hoping in the absence of an attestation paper or something showing NOK (which would identify him) that perhaps he stayed in Dublin and married maybe and if so his father would be shown. So I trying to track him down with nothing to go on except his birth. Regards J
-
The lads in the Great War Forum are extremely kind and knowledgable; they may be able to help with a soldier's records.
-
Related thread on Armed Forces
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=878037.0
-
Heywood yes that was the original thread. J
Just a thought where would I find the soldiers death certificate?
-
Is this the family in 1911
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__3_Urban/Cassidys_Avenue/385592/
Who are the two children who died?
-
Just a thought where would I find the soldiers death certificate?
See reply #23 on your other thread-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=878037.18
-
Thanks Kiltaglassan, Sinnann, yes Sinnann I didn't see the obvious, I have no idea? And if memory serves me that information about live children is not in the 1901 census so I will head back to the genealogy site for possible matching deaths. I had all the names previously but my computer went rogue and I lost all the information I am going back at the request of Australian relatives as they want to pass the information to their children. J
-
Sinnann I have a possible death for Thomas in Dublin south 1881 aged 2, Cork st but can't read the mothers name, J
-
Catherine but wouldn’t he be too old in any case
Sorry I must be looking at the wrong one
-
Aged 2 possibly too young
-
1901 has 7 children
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/North_East_Ward/Cassidy_s_Avenue__off_Old_Youghal_Road_/1101614/
You said Michael was KIA in France, I assume in WWI so he was also alive, that leaves Thomas and one other.
There are 4 at home in 1911 + Michael
So what do you know about the rest, can you track them after 1901 to 1911 or later, if you can that will leave you with the 2 that died.
-
Here's the link to the death - 8 March 1880 at 60 Cook? Street.
No mother's name mentioned.
The informant ? Donohoe of 60 Cook? Street.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06490/4867763.pdf
-
Just about to post the same one, I think it says the mark of Mary
-
Margaret married George Woodcock.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10439/5801140.pdf
Margaret is listed with her parents in her maiden name but she is widowed in 1901.
She marries Patrick Sullivan in 1902. There are two Sullivan grandchildren in 1911.
I just saw a tree with further information. Another marriage for her to Robert Whitehead in 1908
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10076/5665188.pdf
They are in 1911 census.
After all this, it just means Margaret isn’t one who has died by 1911.
-
Hi all.
Firstly Margaret is Thomas's sister she is at Military Hill Cork in the 1911 census
Married to Joseph /Benjamin Whitehead and has just lost 2 children of that marriage, I know there was a Bridgid who married a Patrick Drummy (also kia name on Basra memorial ww1). Must go back as I'm losing track of myself at this stage. J
So I think I have Thomas + one to find, remembering that Thomas 4714 pte 2 RDF died 1900 so still can't rule him out.
And Michael was in St Africa 1901 and possibly youghal 1911, Andrew was kia may 1915 Rue du Bois
-
Just to point out slight difference in information
Margaret and Robert (the tree mentions name changes) - married 3 yrs no children to the marriage by 1911.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__3_Urban/Military_Road/386356/
-
Hi heywood, that info is incorrect, twins born 1909 boy and girl, died within about a month of one another, second death about 3 weeks before census rgds J
He subsequently left t army and the moved to Coventry possibly just as a couple unsure of the circumstances but he died accidentally in 1913 (hit by a horse I think, unlucky end for someone who was an army groom)
-
Sorry. I didn’t check births/deaths - just the census information - the poor family.
It was also that Robert was still ‘Robert’ in 1911 so it was just a note for your records.
-
“So I think I have Thomas + one to find, remembering that Thomas 4714 pte 2 RDF died 1900 so still can't rule him out.”
A couple of thoughts.
Would the death certificate of the soldier, if it can be obtained, give any personal details to identify him? I would think not.
The snippets, I mentioned a while ago, report on Private T O’Donoghue’s death in various newspapers e.g. Bristol, Dublin, Ballymena but I don’t see a mention in the Cork Examiner which does have other Ladysmith reports.
Fuller access to the articles might give further information.
Might it also be worth contacting Cork archives (if there are any) to check?
-
...that info is incorrect, twins born 1908 boy and girl, died within about a month of one another, second death about 3 weeks before census
Twins (boy and girl) born 11 April 1909.
Esther Louisa and Robert.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01607/1645094.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01607/1645095.pdf
-
There is a T O’Donoghoe RDF Boar War II, St Stephen’s Green and a T O’Donoghue RDF Boar War II, Cork Connaught Ave on there respective Boar War memorials.
http://www.irishwarmemorials.ie/Persons?name=&warId=13®Id=&siteId=&memoId=&letter=&sortO=1&fr=1250
-
Hi all, thanks for the comments, I'm not sure if the Cork Examiner would list someone born in Dublin and RDF, there are archives in Cork just not sure if they have any of the info that I need. I guess a death cert wouldn't have any info of a parent unless they certified present at death which is not the case, I thought maybe the cwgc would have listed NOK but can't see that, his father or wife's name must be there somewhere in the army death records. But where, for the record His sister Margaret died in the 1950s having buried 3 husbands and 2 children. Rgds J
-
As I wrote though, there are reports of the casualty in various newspapers, not just Ireland.
If his family were living in Cork, that would be every reason to report the incident.
There are several reports in the Cork newspapers in March 1900 re Ladysmith.
The Dublin Daily National 22nd March mentions Private T O’Donoghue.
-
The Irish death registration normally has the person's address, though sometimes it's just the hospital where they die. If you're lucky it has the profession, address, and (if not in hospital) often a relative who was present at their death. Of course, it'll only be an Irish death registration if he died in Ireland.
-
Abhanliath the soldier died in S Africa, heywood do any of the papers name his father because if its not Andrew we are on the wrong track.
-
If he was fighting for the British in the Boer War, wouldn't their archives be the place to look? The UK's national archives in Kew keeps most of the British military archives. If you are in London or visit you can go there yourself - you need to book what papers you want to look at first online. Or you could pay a local researcher to do it for you.
-
Have looked, not all records survived due to ww2 bombing, J
-
Oh gosh. A long shot, perhaps, but if you go to the National Army Museum in Royal Hospital Road, London SW3 4HT; (phone +44 20 7730 0717) they just might be able to help - they have things like old photos of army pals, diaries, etc.
-
Thank you, J
-
Abhanliath the soldier died in S Africa, heywood do any of the papers name his father because if its not Andrew we are on the wrong track.
No they don’t but I can only see snippets. I think some might refer to family if it is local hence my suggestion re Cork archives.
-
Thanks heywood, I suppose at this point it's worth a punt, J
-
Heywood yes that was the original thread. J
Just a thought where would I find the soldiers death certificate?
You can get details of Irish soldier's deaths in South Africa from the GRO in Roscommon.
But it will not provide any additional information over what you already know.
And it may take some prompting before they acknowledge that they do have the information - which they insist is not a "death certificate". Forget what they called it.
If anyone ever looked at the old annual printed indexes to deaths in Ireland, you may have noticed that at the back of each volume there was an appendix for military and naval deaths of "Irish subjects" overseas. Those deaths include deaths in South Africa, and can be looked up using the reference number like any other index entry.
I went through this process for a great-uncle of mine killed by the British in South Africa in 1900. I don't think his death and the other overseas deaths are online/included in Irishgenealogy.ie - wonder why not.
-
The Irish death registration normally has the person's address, though sometimes it's just the hospital where they die. If you're lucky it has the profession, address, and (if not in hospital) often a relative who was present at their death. Of course, it'll only be an Irish death registration if he died in Ireland.
Not true. Deaths of "Irish subjects" in the military and navy were recorded in Ireland
-
Just to point out that a T. Donohue, a corporal 1RDF, died in South Africa 16-9-1901.
Father Charles.
-
Hi Wexflyer, my problem is that I have a family came from Dublin to Cork In 1890s 1911 census says 8 children alive out of 10 in 1901 in can trace 8 but have the name of another child Thomas born 1877 can't find him 1901 or a death up to that save for pte 4714 so I need something to tie father Andrew or mother Margaret to him. J
-
Hi Wexflyer, my problem is that I have a family came from Dublin to Cork In 1890s 1911 census says 8 children alive out of 10 in 1901 in can trace 8 but have the name of another child Thomas born 1877 can't find him 1901 or a death up to that save for pte 4714 so I need something to tie father Andrew or mother Margaret to him. J
I understand that. Just pointing out that there should be a "death cert" for the RDF chap who died in South Africa in 1900 - which you were interested in - but it will not provide any information to answer that question.
-
Wexflyer, understood thanks J
-
Heywood yes that was the original thread. J
Just a thought where would I find the soldiers death certificate?
You can get details of Irish soldier's deaths in South Africa from the GRO in Roscommon.
But it will not provide any additional information over what you already know.
And it may take some prompting before they acknowledge that they do have the information - which they insist is not a "death certificate". Forget what they called it.
If anyone ever looked at the old annual printed indexes to deaths in Ireland, you may have noticed that at the back of each volume there was an appendix for military and naval deaths of "Irish subjects" overseas. Those deaths include deaths in South Africa, and can be looked up using the reference number like any other index entry.
I went through this process for a great-uncle of mine killed by the British in South Africa in 1900. I don't think his death and the other overseas deaths are online/included in Irishgenealogy.ie - wonder why not.
Maybe it would be worth dropping them a line to request inclusion?
-
Hi Wexflyer, my problem is that I have a family came from Dublin to Cork In 1890s 1911 census says 8 children alive out of 10 in 1901 in can trace 8 but have the name of another child Thomas born 1877 can't find him 1901 or a death up to that save for pte 4714 so I need something to tie father Andrew or mother Margaret to him. J
Death registrations can be odd. It's well known that Percy French's first wife died in childbirth, and references say their baby's death was registered a few days later. I can't find it, though.
-
Heywood yes that was the original thread. J
Just a thought where would I find the soldiers death certificate?
You can get details of Irish soldier's deaths in South Africa from the GRO in Roscommon.
But it will not provide any additional information over what you already know.
And it may take some prompting before they acknowledge that they do have the information - which they insist is not a "death certificate". Forget what they called it.
If anyone ever looked at the old annual printed indexes to deaths in Ireland, you may have noticed that at the back of each volume there was an appendix for military and naval deaths of "Irish subjects" overseas. Those deaths include deaths in South Africa, and can be looked up using the reference number like any other index entry.
I went through this process for a great-uncle of mine killed by the British in South Africa in 1900. I don't think his death and the other overseas deaths are online/included in Irishgenealogy.ie - wonder why not.
Maybe it would be worth dropping them a line to request inclusion?
They still have not put the 1864-1870/71 deaths online......
-
I don't know that they have a huge staff. I've suggested putting in fields allowing researchers using the site to add details so that the servers of all Ireland aren't groaning under the weight of repeated requests and heating up the climate more due to the "Mother's surname: see register entry" and the lack of details on the form, and they said (if I'm remembering the response correctly) that they didn't have the staff for this.
-
I don't know that they have a huge staff. I've suggested putting in fields allowing researchers using the site to add details so that the servers of all Ireland aren't groaning under the weight of repeated requests and heating up the climate more due to the "Mother's surname: see register entry" and the lack of details on the form, and they said (if I'm remembering the response correctly) that they didn't have the staff for this.
Let's get the 1864-1870 death records on board first, before thinking about any further changes. ;)
-
And the deaths abroad from the back of the books!
But the changes so that the front pages showed more would save the country a fortune and the climate a lot in server use; I've just been going down through two brothers to find their records clicking on endless versions of their names through several years. If the form had a job entry, I could simply search by "barber" and "hairdresser" successively and would instantly have found them.