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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: serveta on Monday 30 October 23 19:12 GMT (UK)
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Can someone help locate birth/marriage/death confirmation for both
Thomas David Thomas Born abt 1847 in Llangattock, Camarthenshire,
Elizabeth Day Born abt 1856 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire,
Thomas David Thomas died between 1891 & 1906 based on documents I have
Any information that will allow me to progress my research would be much appreciated. I have limited knowledge on how best to locate the relevant documents. I have tried Ancestry, Find My Past and BMD search engines without much success so any assistance is very much needed. I have added the following details of my great grandmother Elizabeth Ann Thomas in the hope that this helps
Thanks in advance Ron
Taken from 1891 Census
Belle Vue Beershop, 30 North Street, Abergavenny, Monmouthshire,
Thomas David Thomas Born abt 1847 in Llangattock, Camarthenshire,
Elizabeth Day Born abt 1856 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire,
Parents of:
Thomas Thomas Born abt 1873 in Llangattock, Camarthenshire,
Elizabeth Thomas Born 1886 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire,
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1891 Trade Directory Abergavenny, Monmouthshire,
Thomas David Thomas 30 North Street – Beer Retailer
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Taken from birth cert for Elizabeth Ann Thomas
Born 22/04/1886
Address: Belle Vue Inn, North Street, Abergavenny, Monmouth
Father: Thomas David Thomas - Joinery man/Carpenter
Mother: Elizabeth Thomas formerly Day
********************************************
Taken from marriage cert for Elizabeth Ann Thomas
Married 13/061906
Address for both Bride and Groom: 7 Station Road, Senghenydd, Pontypridd, Glamorgan
Father: Thomas David Thomas (Deceased) Carpenter
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Just for info
Thomas Thomas snr was born https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llangadock
1881 Abergavenny
Piece 5234, Folio 14, Page number 21
Thomas Thomas 34 Head house painter, Llangadock Carmarthen
Elizabeth Thomas 23 Wife Monmouth Town
David Thomas 14 Son Llandeilo
Thomas Thomas 9 Son Llandeilo Carmarthen
I think there is a possibility that Thomas was married previously, although not finding a marriage to Elizabeth Day within timeframe.
What was the name of groom in 1906, any witnesses names?
Cas
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1881 Abergavenny
Piece 5234, Folio 14, Page number 21
Thomas Thomas 34 Head house painter, Llangadock Carmarthen
Elizabeth Thomas 23 Wife Monmouth Town
David Thomas 14 Son Llandilo
Thomas Thomas 9 Son Llandilo Carmarthen
The occupation is house carpenter.
Debra :)
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1881 Abergavenny
Piece 5234, Folio 14, Page number 21
Thomas Thomas 34 Head house painter, Llangadock Carmarthen
Elizabeth Thomas 23 Wife Monmouth Town
David Thomas 14 Son Llandilo
Thomas Thomas 9 Son Llandilo Carmarthen
The occupation is house carpenter.
Debra :)
Thanks Debra :) it is carpenter my error. The transcription is a mess. Census image ok
Cas
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Just for info
Thomas Thomas snr was born https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llangadock
1881 Abergavenny
Piece 5234, Folio 14, Page number 21
Thomas Thomas 34 Head house painter, Llangadock Carmarthen
Elizabeth Thomas 23 Wife Monmouth Town
David Thomas 14 Son Llandilo
Thomas Thomas 9 Son Llandilo Carmarthen
I think there is a possibility that Thomas was married previously, although not finding a marriage to Elizabeth Day within timeframe.
What was the name of groom in 1906, any witnesses names?
Cas
Hi Cas thanks for your assistance, regards marriage cert details Elizabeth Ann Thomas married William Merritt Watts with witnesses named as John Davies & Thomas Thomas
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Don't know if this will help, Thomas is a common name to research but there was another possible child. Children can sometimes help identify grandparent name etc.
THOMAS, ESTHER ANN mmn DAY
GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 11A Page 51
Death - THOMAS, ESTHER ANN age 1
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 11A Page 32
Burial Date 15 Apr 1885
Surname THOMAS
Forename(s) Esther Ann
Residence Abergavenny
Age at death 18m
Officiating Minister James Pugh, Rector
Event Burial
Gwent record office
register ref. number LDS/PA 88
Transcription Llanfoist Burials 1875-1945
Parish or Chapel Llanfoist
in Welsh Llan-Ffwyst
Dedication St Faith
About 3/4miles from Abergavenny
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanfoist
Cas
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Another possible
THOMAS, MARY JANE mmn DAY
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 11A Page 56
Death - THOMAS, MARY JANE 0
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 11A Page 36
Burial 1878 Sep 18 THOMAS Mary Jane age 2m Burial Llanfoist as above
Cas
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Think this is a good 1871 for Thomas with first wife
Carmarthen, Llandeilo Fawr,
Address: George & Dragon Inn
Piece 5486, Folio 59, Page number 17
Thomas Thomas 26 Head, Carpenter & Inn Keeper, Llangadock, Carmarthenshire
Anne Thomas 24 Wife, Conwyl Cays Carmarthenshire (Conwyl Caio?)
John Thomas 1 Son, Llandeilo
Jane Thomas 21 Sister, dressmaker, Llangadock
Margaret Evans 18 Servant
Possible - first wife of Thomas
Deaths Sep Q 1874
THOMAS Anne age 27 Llandilofawr 11a 477
Think they married Sept Q 1865 or Dec Q 1867 Llandilofawr both possible Anne Jones same page.
David b circa 1868 looks likely with maternal Jones family, let me know if you need census.
Located Thomas back to 1851, likely parents David & Esther. Will leave it to you incase you want to look up yourself. If you get stuck let me know.
Cas
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Outside chance?
Marriages Sep 1892
DAY Elizabeth Swansea 11a 1247
Thomas THOMAS on same page
2 others on page are on 1891 Census together
+ possible for Elizabeth?
Siblings Baptised 26 Oct 1862 St Cadoc, Llangattock-Vibon-Avel, Monmouthshire
ELIZABETH/ANNIE ELIZA and JAMES WILLIAM Day
Parents GEORGE/MARY
Father a Gamekeeper
EDWARD STEPHEN Day bapt 01 Oct 1865 same Parents, Father Gamekeeper to Mr ROLLS
(Source FreeREG0
1861 in Llangattock Vibon Avel
George Day 33 Head Gamekeeper born Farmington, Gloucestershire
Mary A Day 37 Wife born Witcombe Gloucestershire
George Day 10 Son
Mary A Day 8 Daughter
Ellen Day 5 Daughter
ELIZABETH Day 3 Daughter born Monmouth, Monmouthshire****
Eliza A Day 10 mths Daughter
1871 the Family are in Herefordshire. Elizabeth born c 1858 Monmouth Monmouthshire.
1881 George/Mary and 2 children are in Derbyshire.
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Wonder if this is their marriage?
Marriages Sep Q 1892
DAY Elizabeth Swansea 11a 1247
Johns Louisa Julia Swansea 11a 1247
SODEN Harry McManus Swansea 11a 1247
Thomas Thomas Swansea 11a 1247
Possibly they moved after 1891 or married in another district to save face with friends/neighbours as already had family?
The other couple married each other they are together in 1901. So This Thomas married Elizabeth day
Snap Trish just spotted the marriage :)
Cas
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Don't know if you have it but daughter Elizabeth Ann Thomas died 1921 after census was taken she is with family in Swansea 1921
Deaths Sep Q 1921
Watts Elizabeth A age 35 Swansea 11a 940
Looks like she is buried in same vault as husband William Merritt Watts, Cockett Cemetery.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201073309/william-merritt-watts
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201072763/elizabeth-ann-watts
Looks like possibly a few of her children are buried same cem. Not checked her children.
Cas
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All good Cas, great minds think alike :)
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All good Cas, great minds think alike :)
;)
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Apologies for not responding sooner and thanks for all your efforts, as trying to process all the information given thank you
My thought so far:
Marriage details found showing Elizabeth Day married1892 Swansea, Glamorgan to either Thomas Thomas or Harry Mcmanus Soden
Louisa Julia Johns & Harry Mcmanus Soden found on same 1901 Census therefore, Elizabeth Day married Thomas Thomas in 1892 Swansea, Glamorgan
Thomas Thomas Sept qtr 1892 Swansea
Volume, 11a Page, 1247
Elizabeth Day appears with same reference
Louisa Julia Johns & Harry Mcmanus Soden named on same page and volume
Elizabeth Thomas formerly Day Born abt 1856 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire,
Birth Record for Elizabeth Day found (birth quarter 2) birth year given as 1852 mother’s maiden name “Morgan” page 63 volume 11a (doubt about if this is my Elizabeth Day
David Thomas Born abt 1867 Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
Marriage for David Thomas 1896 naming Thomas Thomas father as a Carpenter page 117 no 233 Monmouthshire
Death detals for Thomas Thomas from 1906 Llandovery, Camarthenshire (quarter 3) Page 11a Volume 573
Elizabeth’s birth year indicates she is not the mother of David and that Thomas David Thomas was married previously,
99.9% sure Thomas Thomas first wife was Anne Jones who died 1874 and also the mother of David Thomas Born abt 1867 need to do a bit more work on the element to remove any doubt as David not listed
"think this is a good 1871 for Thomas with first wife"
Carmarthen, Llandeilo Fawr,
Address: George & Dragon Inn
Piece 5486, Folio 59, Page number 17
Thomas Thomas 26 Head, Carpenter & Inn Keeper, Llangadock, Carmarthenshire
Anne Thomas 24 Wife, Conwyl Cays Carmarthenshire (Conwyl Caio?)
John Thomas 1 Son, Llandeilo
Jane Thomas 21 Sister, dressmaker, Llangadock
Margaret Evans 18 Servant
Any further assistance would be greatfully appreciated
Best Regards Ron
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Do you need Thomas back to 1851 I mentioned?
Located a possible marriage 1896 for David with father Thomas a carpenter but no telling if it is him.
There is this possible death, but there are others
Deaths Dec Q 1900
Thomas Thomas David age 54 Swansea 11a 510
Cas
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Also if you check 1881 & 1891 for Elizabeth POB it just states Monmouthshire, no mention of Abergavenny. That is where they are living in census.
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Anyway here is the 1861 living Llangadock
All born Llangadock, Carmarthenshire. Registration district Llandovery
David Thomas 43 Head farmer 45 acres
Ester Thomas 53 Wife
Mary Thomas 19 Daughter
Thomas Thomas 15 Son
Jane Thomas 12 Daughter
Cas
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1851 Llangadock
David Thomas 33 farmer of 20 acres
Esther Thomas 43
Mary Thomas 9
Thomas Thomas 6
Jane Thomas 2
Added: in 1871 David is a publican. 1881 David is an Innkeeper & farrier
Cas
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Do you need Thomas back to 1851 I mentioned?
Located a possible marriage 1896 for David with father Thomas a carpenter but no telling if it is him.
There is this possible death, but there are others
Deaths Dec Q 1900
Thomas Thomas David age 54 Swansea 11a 510
Cas
Hi Cas
The only thing I can say with any certainty is that Thomas Thomas died between 1891 & 1906 so any information you can offer will be fantastic as I am Just starting to get into the real difficulties of genealogy research . I will only add fully confirmed information to my family research and recently ventured into the world of Ancestry DNA so still a newbie and need assistance from people like your self who are more experienced in knowing what to look out for when putting the pieces together
Thank You
Ron
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David Thomas
Marriage Banns Date 27 Feb 1842
Marriage Banns Place Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Marriage Date 1842
Residence Place Llangadog
Spouse Esther Jones
Likely marriage banns. Esther is 10 years older so that is why only likely 3 children born to couple. Unless infant death.
There is also the possibility of her being married previously.
Marriages Apr/May/Jun Q 1842 Llandovery 26 795 - maybe they married later than banns read. No other of same names in Llandovery RD in timeframe. Marriage banns are effective for 3 months after being read.
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Do you need Thomas back to 1851 I mentioned?
Located a possible marriage 1896 for David with father Thomas a carpenter but no telling if it is him.
There is this possible death, but there are others
Deaths Dec Q 1900
Thomas Thomas David age 54 Swansea 11a 510
Cas
Hi Cas
The only thing I can say with any certainty is that Thomas Thomas died between 1891 & 1906 so any information you can offer will be fantastic as I am Just starting to get into the real difficulties of genealogy research . I will only add fully confirmed information to my family research and recently ventured into the world of Ancestry DNA so still a newbie and need assistance from people like your self who are more experienced in knowing what to look out for when putting the pieces together
Thank You
Ron
The only thing I can suggest is obtain the marriage in 1892 then you can confirm if this is your couple. The death may then make it a possibility it is him.
Most of my FH is in Wales, I am still learning after 20+ years. I agree, I don't know any that would add anything without verification. It can be costly and time-consuming but a rewarding pastime.
Added: I included the births/deaths of previous children it can help with naming patterns, also it helps build a picture of what our ancestors endured. I include all infant deaths as they are part of the family and need to be remembered. It can also give a timeline as to when the couple met.
Cas
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This is 1871 for David, if you trace back in census his mother Anne is with family.
Dyffryn Ceidrich and Llangadock
John Jones 71 Head farmer 300 acres
Mary Jones 64 Wife
Mary Jones 37 Daughter
David Jones 34 Son
David Thomas 3 Grandson Llangadock
Cas
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Also you stated
Birth Record for Elizabeth Day found (birth quarter 2) birth year given as 1852 mother’s maiden name “Morgan” page 63 volume 11a (doubt about if this is my Elizabeth Day)
The maiden name for the mother of the family Trish found has mmn Cook. She was baptised in 1862 with siblings, the 1861 gives her age 3yrs.
There does not appear to be a registration for Elizabeth, unless she was registered Maria Elizabeth. Registration was not enforced until 1874. Cannot find this Maria Elizabeth in census, but only looked briefly.
Possible - DAY, MARIA ELIZABETH mmn COOK
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 36
DAY, EDWARD STEPHEN mmn COOK
GRO Reference: 1864 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 32
Would keep an open mind until you get the marriage to confirm or rule out.
Also info from GRO, some digital certs can be now obtained at £2.50 for birth & death
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=875531.msg7473191#msg7473191
Added: Thomas Thomas jnr is likely living in Swansea with his family in 1911/1921. I do think the family moved or had links in Swansea after 1891. If you have problems finding him, let me know.
Cas