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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: kivo on Monday 23 October 23 20:18 BST (UK)
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Hi all. I am currently writing a book about my village football club, Kiveton Park FC, in the southern-most reaches of Yorkshire.
I am covering notable former players, and have basic lifestories for all the ones I want to write about - apart from one.
John 'Jack' Butler played for the club from 1902 to 1905, before moving into the professional game with Grimsby Town. He then moved to Plymouth Argyle in 1907/08, before the war more or less finished his career.
No matter how hard I look, I can barely find any details on his life, and don't know when he was born or died.
A Kiveton match report from 1904 states he was injured and his place taken by his brother - unnamed this time, but in a seperate game they play together as John Butler and Jas. Butler.
'Most' sources (including a Plymouth fansite here https://www.greensonscreen.co.uk/gosdb-players2.asp?pid=131) I have found have Jack down as born in 1885, but the only census record I know of for certain is from 1911, when he is noted as being a Professional Footballer living in Plymouth. Frustratingly, no place of birth is given, but he is listed as aged 34 - which would mean he was born circa 1877!
The English National Football Archive agree with the 1877 birth year, but state he was born in West Bromwich.
I have looked on the British Newspaper Archive and the only snippet of information I can find on his personal life comes from 1913, when it's noted he is an ex-service man, having played football with the Royal Artillery for two seasons.
With so many conflicting accounts, and with such a common name, where do I go next in the hunt for Jack's DoB and DoD?
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There are a lot of entries on both the 1881 & 1891 censuses for his name so my suggestion below may not be practical unless you confine any initial search to the Midlands area
Working on an 1877 birthyear - check the 1881 census for entries that include both him & his brother?
Working on an 1885 birthyear - use the 1891
I notice he is shown as married in 1911
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Seems to me that if he and his brother were playing as amateurs for kiverton they must have been living and working there.
1891 census for Wales, near Worksop has
John age 15 born West Brom and his brother James age 11 born Kiverton Park. Dad John T age 35 Mam Eliza A age 35.
If it is the right couple I think he is living in Plymouth in 1938 with his wife Emily.
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I had a look at Septimus ATTERBURY's family (boarding with John in 1911). While he was playing in Plymouth his wife and children were at home in Loughborough with a notation of 'husband working away from home'.
A bit of a longshot but having a look for a BUTLER family in a similar situation that might belong to John, there is a Beatrice BUTLER living in Kiveton with two children, Amy and Eliza Ann, as well as a son born prior to marriage. There is no notation about where her husband is but she signs as Mrs John BUTLER.
John BUTLER and Beatrice EYLEY married in 1902 in the Worksop district which would include Kiveton. The family were still in Kiveton in 1921 and 1939, and the free index search for 1921 shows just Staffordshire as John's place of birth.
Debra :)
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There are a couple of mentions of John BUTLER fined during a match at Kiveton Park in Jan 1897.
Saturday, Jan. 16, 1897
Publication: Derbyshire Times and Chesterfield Herald
and
Saturday, Jan. 23, 1897
Publication: Derbyshire Times and Chesterfield Herald
Happy ot send you a copy if you don't have access.
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Thanks all - some really good research there!
I *think* I'd be comfortable saying the following timeline is fairly accurate?
- In the 1911 census, John Butler is a professional footballer living at Plymouth
- His family were living back in Kiveton Park - wife Beatrice signing the census as Mrs. John Butler.
- John and Beatrice Eyley married in 1902
- In the 1921 census and 1939 register, John and Beatrice are living at Dinnington (near Kiveton). John noted as born in West Bromwich in the 1921 census.
- In 1891, John is a 15yo coal miner living in Kiveton, Yorkshire, with parents John and Eliza, and younger brother James
- The same family is still in West Bromwich in 1881 - 5yo John jr. is a visitor next door!
- By 1901 24yo John jr. has left the family home but I can't find where - possibly in the military based on press clippings?
Would anyone disagree with the above?
Can anyone find John in the 1901 census?
His death record?
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- The same family is still in West Bromwich in 1881 - 5yo John jr. is a visitor next door!
He is visiting with his maternal grandparents, Thomas and Leticia SANDERS/SAUNDERS.
Birth
BUTLER, JOHN
Mother's maiden surname: SANDERS
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 863
This John died 17 Feb 1958 at the Fir Vale Infirmary at Sheffield. His usual address was 25 Leicester Road, Dinnington where he lived with daughter Eliza Ann. He left a will with his effects to his daughter Amy who had married James FOX.
Debra :)
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There is a family tree for Amy Butler Fox here on Ancestry (you need a subs to view, not sure if you have one) www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/165165621/person/232181017344/facts
Monica
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Hi. James Butler was my grandad. He died before Jack in 1946/7 but mum remembers uncle Jack famous footballer.
Did you find what you wanted already.
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Hi, I'm a Grimsby Town FC historian and found this subject of interest. You look as though you've pretty much got all of your answers from the helpful common room users. However, in 1917 Grimsby Town laid claim to fielding father and son from Kiveton Park in the same match - J Butler father and his son W Butler. Further research has led me to believe that 'W Butler' would have in fact been William Eyley. William was born as Eyley on 15 Apr 1896 at Kiveton Park and is on the census of 1901, 1911 and 1921 as William Eyley, son of Beatrice Eyley in 1901, but married John Butler in 1902. William Eyley was registered as Butler when he married in 1931, on the 1939 Register and when he died. Does everyone agree with these findings? Obviously another talented footballer, would love to know if he played for Kiveton Park too. Both John Butler and William Eyley/Butler worked at Dinnington Main together. When is the book on sale, how do I obtain a copy and are there any other former Grimsby Town players mentioned; Herbert Chapman or Herbert Morley? If you require more detailsabout their Grimsby Town careers then please let me know.