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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: aidansrest on Friday 13 October 23 14:05 BST (UK)

Title: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Friday 13 October 23 14:05 BST (UK)
Hi

I'm looking for the identity of Mary Ann Brown, born in Sunderland (possibly Monkwearmouth) around 1836.
She married John Cursiter Flett in St Peters, Monkwearmouth on the 13th August 1857.
I do not have a copy of the marriage but I do have a transcription which names her father as being Thomas Brown and gives her age as 21 years.
But this is all the information I have.

I believe she may have been the daughter of Thomas Brown and his wife, Isabella (cannot find their marriage), being baptised in Monkwearmouth on the 12th October 1835.
But, again, no real info, nor can I find her with any certainty on the 1841 and 1851 census.

Thomas and Isabella had several children, including a son, John Mitcalf, baptised on the 26th August 1838.

Mary Ann and John Flett had a son, Andrew Metcalf - wondering if there is a connection??

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 14:58 BST (UK)
Possible marriage

Thomas Brown
Marriage Date   25 Jun 1835
Marriage Place   Bishop-Wearmouth, Durham, England
Spouse   Isabella Metcalf
FHL Film Number   1514547
Reference ID   item 3 p 244

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Friday 13 October 23 15:04 BST (UK)
Wow - that's fabulous, could confirm what I have found - fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Spelk on Friday 13 October 23 16:35 BST (UK)
Baptism at Monkwearmouth 1 Nov 1835 Mary Ann BROWN daur Thomas and Isabella
Edit
Born 12 Oct abode Shore? occupation Mariner I think
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Friday 13 October 23 16:38 BST (UK)
Thats the one I found. But trying to find her and her family prior to her marriage is impossible (for me anyway!).

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 17:22 BST (UK)
Looking at this possible family

1851 Monkwearmouth Shore, Heddworth Street
Piece   2398, Folio   390, Page number 52

All born Durham

Isabella Brown 34   Wife mar
William Brown 13   Son
John Brown 12   Son
Isabella Brown 10   Daughter
Sarah Brown 4   Daughter
Joseph Brown   1   Son

1861 Monkwearmouth Shore

Isabella Brown 44 Head mar - mariners wife husband at sea  - b Monkwearmouth
Sarah Brown 14 Daughter Hartlepool
Joseph Brown 11   Son Hartlepool

BROWN, JOSEPH  NICHOLSON  mmn   METCALF 
GRO Reference: 1849  J Quarter in STOCKTON AND SEDGEFIELD  Volume 24  Page 305

BROWN, SARAH    mmn   METCALF 
GRO Reference: 1846  D Quarter in STOCKTON AND SEDGEFIELD  Volume 24  Page 231

BROWN, ISABELLA   mmn    METCALF 
GRO Reference: 1840  S Quarter in STOCKTON AND SEDGEFIELD  Volume 24  Page 208

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 17:27 BST (UK)
1891 Monk Wearmouth Shore
Joseph N Brown   41   Head Hartlepool Shipwright
Mary Brown 42   Wife
John T Brown 15   Son
Septimus Brown 6   Son
Isabella Brown 75  wid G mother Sunderland, Durham


1871/1881 Isabella is same area with married daughter Isabella Davison & family

Possible
Marriages Dec Q 1861   (same page)
Brown    Isabella        Sunderland    10a   560    
Davison    John        Sunderland    10a   560   

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 17:51 BST (UK)
1841 Hartlepool -  Registration district Stockton and Sedgefield
All in county
Isabella Brown   25
William Brown 5
John Brown 3
Thomas Brown10 Mo
Isabella Brown 10 Mo

BROWN, THOMAS   mmn    METCALF 
GRO Reference: 1839  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION  Volume 24

Baptism https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7FG-HLR

Possible Death - BROWN, THOMAS    age   3 
GRO Reference: 1844  M Quarter in STOCKTON AND SEDGEFIELD  Volume 24  Page 139

No Mary Ann  :(  although family would fit for area of her baptism, and father occ.

Cas

Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 19:03 BST (UK)
Baptism of mother Isabella... OP mentioned Mary Ann called her son Andrew Mitcalf

Name   Isabella Mitcalf
Baptism Date   12 Jul 1816
Baptism Place   St. Peter's, Monk-Wearmouth, Durham, England
Father   Andrew Mitcalf
Mother   Mary Nicholson
FHL Film Number   1514563
Reference ID   item 8 p 102


There is also a Jane 1814 same parents as above

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 19:57 BST (UK)
Mary Ann must belong to this family

Probate for John was to Joseph Brown, Shipwright see reply #6

Name   John Flett
Death Date   19 Apr 1903
Death Place   Durham, England
Probate Date   25 Jul 1903
Probate Registry   Durham

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 October 23 20:24 BST (UK)
Possibles for Mary Ann?
1841, Hartlepool
Church Street
Mary Metcalf 45 Ind
Jane Metcalf 15
Dorothy Metcalf 15
Sarah Metcalf 11
Mary Brown 5
All born county.

1851, Hartlepool
Northgate Street
Mary Ann Brown Serv U 15 House Servant Durham Sunderland
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 20:29 BST (UK)
Possibles for Mary Ann?
1841, Hartlepool
Church Street
Mary Metcalf 45 Ind
Jane Metcalf 15
Dorothy Metcalf 15
Sarah Metcalf 11
Mary Brown 5
All born county.

1851, Hartlepool
Northgate Street
Mary Ann Brown Serv U 15 House Servant Durham Sunderland


I think you found her Jon  :)
Was just looking at the Metcalfe family, Isabella had a few siblings. Quite a few family names

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 13 October 23 20:36 BST (UK)
Hartlepool was a big help, Cas!
Well done for finding all that, great work.
Jon
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 23 20:44 BST (UK)
Think 1841 above with Mary Brown is maybe possible mother and siblings of Isabelle b1816?

There are some baptisms with same named parents. Number of online trees for the Metcalf/Mitcalf family.

Cas

Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Saturday 14 October 23 11:52 BST (UK)
Can I just send a tremendous thanks to you all for taking and interest and finding out so much for me!

I'm off to my Local Studies Library on Monday to get Mary Ann's marriage from the parish reel. Will let you know what it reveals, but I'm 100% certain you have found her parents!

Many, many thanks

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Skinniedipper on Sunday 17 December 23 11:42 GMT (UK)
Hi aidansrest
Mary Ann Brown was my 1st Cousin 4xremoved. She was born in Bishopwearmouth on the 13th of March 1835 and baptised at St Michael & All Angels Parish Church, Bishopwearmouth, on the 28th of March 1838. Her parents were Thomas Brown & Mary (Unknown). She was the last of their five children.
She married John Cursiter Flett in St Peter's Parish Church, Monkwearmouth, on the 13th of August 1857.
I have plenty more info if you are interested.
Douglas Brown
Queensland, Australia
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 17 December 23 14:12 GMT (UK)
Hi aidansrest
Mary Ann Brown was my 1st Cousin 4xremoved. She was born in Bishopwearmouth on the 13th of March 1835 and baptised at St Michael & All Angels Parish Church, Bishopwearmouth, on the 28th of March 1838. Her parents were Thomas Brown & Mary (Unknown). She was the last of their five children.


This is that family in 1841 at Ayres Quay, same abode and occupation as the baptism you mention
Thomas Brown   40   occ Bottle Maker
Mary   Brown   40   
Jane   Brown   15   
Margaret   Brown 10   
Elizabeth   Brown 5   
Mary   Brown 5   
all born in county
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Skinniedipper on Monday 18 December 23 00:46 GMT (UK)
Yes, that's correct.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 18 December 23 10:14 GMT (UK)
What was the occupation of the Thomas Brown (father of Mary Ann) on the record of her marriage to John Flett?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Monday 18 December 23 15:48 GMT (UK)
I'm convinced that she was the daughter of Thomas Brown and Isabella Metcalf, being born on the 12th October 1835.

Isabella's father was Andrew Metcalf, and Mary Ann named one of her sons, Andrew Metcalf Brown - too much of a co-incidence.

Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 18 December 23 16:00 GMT (UK)
Did you get the marriage certificate for Mary Ann to confirm Thomas's occupation.


ADDED
I would agree with you about having the right marriage Sue  ;D.  Perhaps skinniedipper has evidence that proves otherwise.  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Monday 18 December 23 16:37 GMT (UK)
I did see it...from the reels in my local library...I believe that he may have been a mariner. Not 100% though

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Skinniedipper on Monday 18 December 23 22:43 GMT (UK)
Mary Ann's father Thomas was a glass maker, the same as his father William Brown (born abt 1773 in Monkwearmouth).

William Brown married Margaret Little (born abt 1771 in Stanhope) on the 2nd of August 1794 at St Thomas the Apostle Parish Church, Stanhope.

They had ten children of which Thomas was the fourth.

Thomas and his wife Mary had five children of which Mary Ann was the last.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 19 December 23 10:10 GMT (UK)
Mary Ann's father Thomas was a glass maker,



Does this information come from the marriage record between Mary Ann Brown and John Flett?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Skinniedipper on Tuesday 19 December 23 12:11 GMT (UK)
No, it comes from the 1841, 1851 & 1861 Census entries for Thomas Brown & his family. Mary Ann was included in those for 1841 & 1851. She married John Cursiter Flett in 1857.
In 1841 the family was in Ayres Quay, Bishopwearmouth. Thomas was a bottle manufacturer.
In 1851 they were in Hill Field, Bishopwearmouth. Thomas was a glass maker.
In 1861 they were in Back Harrison Street, Bishopwearmouth. Thomas was a glass bottle maker.

If you also look in the England Select Marriages database on Ancestry you'll find that her father was recorded as Thomas Brown.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 19 December 23 12:51 GMT (UK)
There are two Mary Ann Brown's born in the same area at around the same time, with Thomas as their father.
The only way that you can be sure that the Mary Ann Brown d/o Thomas the bottle maker was the one who married John Flett and NOT Mary Ann Brown d/o Thomas the mariner, is to check the occupation of the Thomas Brown who appears as Mary Ann's father on her marriage record.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 19 December 23 19:17 GMT (UK)
Would also be interesting to see addresses and witnesses to marriage as well as fathers occ.

Probate for John Flett in 1903 names Joseph Brown, Shipwright & Thomas Flett. Maybe interesting to find if there is a will and any family details.

Joseph N Brown (shipwright) reply #6 died 1925, so could very well be the one named on probate in 1903.

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Tuesday 19 December 23 19:19 GMT (UK)
Joseph Brown was Mary Ann's brother, also a son of Thomas Brown and Isabella Metcalf.
This is one of the ways I confirmed her identity!

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Wednesday 20 December 23 09:39 GMT (UK)
Hi folks!
Hopefully this will put Mary Ann Brown's paternity to bed once and for all!!
I have got copy of marriage to John Flett and her father was Thomas Brown, a mariner. As I said previously.
I have a photo should there be any doubt.

I have researched her family extensively and have more information should anyone need it.
She was difficult to trace on census as the family were not in Sunderland in 1841 and she was visiting her maternal grandmother.
I believe she may have been employed as a domestic servant in 1851 prior to returning to Sunderland, with her family, before marrying John.
Any queries please get in touch

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 20 December 23 10:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue, 

I don't think there was any doubt as to who her father was from the brilliant research done on this post but it is really good to have the final confirmation from the marriage certificate. Thank you.

Happy Christmas to you all  ;D

Rosie


Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Wednesday 20 December 23 10:34 GMT (UK)
And to you all! Fantastic help throughout the year! Amazing 👏

However, as I said...I have a copy of marriage certificate should Skinniedipper require it

Merry Christmas

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 20 December 23 11:53 GMT (UK)
Great news Sue..glad its sorted, confirmation is key!

Merry Christmas all  :)

Cas
Title: Re: Mary Ann Brown - unfortunately!
Post by: aidansrest on Wednesday 20 December 23 11:55 GMT (UK)
And you too!  :)
Sue