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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 00:36 BST (UK)

Title: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 00:36 BST (UK)
 I am hoping this will load for me  !!!

I have a para where most of it is  ok but   for a few words here and there .

NO IT DID NOT LOAD !!!!  GRRRRR !!

HERES WHAT I HAVE SO FAR  ANYWAY  I HAVE NOW MADE IT 2 SENTENCES  ONLY AND WILL SEE IF IT LOAD .
 
-----------------

SO FAR  I HAVE BELOW .

 LIST    OF PRISONERS TRANSPORTED TO NEWCASTLE ON BOARD OF M C SLOOP  WITH THEIR

RESPECTIVE SENTENCES   ..???????....  THEIR TO THEOR ORIGINAL PLACES AND OF  ........?... 

TIMES  OF TRIAL AND SENTENCES .....   FROM THE DEED POLLS OR INDENTS  OF THEIR RESPECTIVE

SHIPS    OR VESSEL BY WHICH THEY  ARRIVED IN THIS COLONY  .

OK SO  THE 2 LINES LOADED ..

THIS IS JOHN LEA ( SHOULD BE LEE)  A RE OFFENDER BEING SENT TO NEWCASTLE

.
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 01 October 23 01:02 BST (UK)
Sentences --?-- thereto, also their original places and time of trial and sentences, extracted
From the deed polls or indents of the respective ships or vessel by which they arrived in …
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 01 October 23 01:41 BST (UK)
Sentences amassed?

Sue
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: judb on Sunday 01 October 23 03:26 BST (UK)
Could you put up a link to the original document/record please.  Sometimes being able to see other entries written in the same hand is helpful.

Judith
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: shume on Sunday 01 October 23 06:13 BST (UK)
" sentences amended thereto, also their origins from the Deed Polls or Indent of the res....."
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: Bookbox on Sunday 01 October 23 07:03 BST (UK)
For what it's worth, it's Sentences annexed thereto.
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 01 October 23 07:35 BST (UK)
Genius Bookbox.
Annexed! I see it now, of course, but could not think what it could possibly be.
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 10:00 BST (UK)
Could you put up a link to the original document/record please.  Sometimes being able to see other entries written in the same hand is helpful.

Sorry Judith i actually dot have it  .
Judith
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 10:01 BST (UK)
Sentences --?-- thereto, also their original places and time of trial and sentences, extracted
From the deed polls or indents of the respective ships or vessel by which they arrived in …

Thanks Neal .
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 10:02 BST (UK)
Sentences amassed?

Sue

Thank you   Sparrett .
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 10:03 BST (UK)
Thank you   every one .
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 10:04 BST (UK)
For what it's worth, it's Sentences annexed thereto.

Great job thank you .
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: Ada Zeeks on Sunday 01 October 23 13:16 BST (UK)
Hi Susie
Please know, I am not doubting your info (re the ship name), just asking to clarify... and hoping to help.


Not that my knowledge is great, but I have never heard of the MC Sloop.... Generally MC refers to something like Maritime Commission.... it would describe either the owner, the type of ship... Like SS stands for STEAMSHIP.... HMS means Her/His Majesty's Ship....

I thought the word sloop referred to the sails on a ship, the specific arrangement of the sails... and that can include the sails arrangement for gun ships.

Would you please upload a link so we can see the actual record? 

I have tried to find him in Australia, but can't seem to locate him... where was he convicted please?  England, Ireland, Scotland.... I can't see him on the Old Bailey records of the Irish transportation records, so will need more info first.

Did he go to Newcastle, or was that just on the transportation document?  Its possible he did go to Newcastle, but not get off the ship.... and went to Tassie.


thanks
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Sunday 01 October 23 13:55 BST (UK)
Sorry i cant help with a link.

He was JOHN     LEE
Born about 1804  London
Convicted at the Old Bailey 
Arrived 1819 on the Grenada
Was a constant  re offender  and  was sent  to Newcastle
Eventually was in Frazers lane in Sydney  for a short while
Newspaper   has him stealing   a boat  off  Billy Blue
Emus off someone else in Syd
Was in and out of Sydney  jail until  i lose him   for good   about 1831-  being whipped  again .
He was  whipped   50  times  on  a number of   times   and  100 lashes and was part of the tobacco  stealing  off the  Speedwell  .


I have never found his fate after 1831 -  but    have seen a few records for possibles in Asylums that need to be checked . 


Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: matthewj64 on Sunday 01 October 23 17:48 BST (UK)
Hi Susie
Please know, I am not doubting your info (re the ship name), just asking to clarify... and hoping to help.


Not that my knowledge is great, but I have never heard of the MC Sloop.... Generally MC refers to something like Maritime Commission.... it would describe either the owner, the type of ship... Like SS stands for STEAMSHIP.... HMS means Her/His Majesty's Ship....

I thought the word sloop referred to the sails on a ship, the specific arrangement of the sails... and that can include the sails arrangement for gun ships.

Would you please upload a link so we can see the actual record? 

I have tried to find him in Australia, but can't seem to locate him... where was he convicted please?  England, Ireland, Scotland.... I can't see him on the Old Bailey records of the Irish transportation records, so will need more info first.

Did he go to Newcastle, or was that just on the transportation document?  Its possible he did go to Newcastle, but not get off the ship.... and went to Tassie.


thanks

HMC Sloop Sally (HM Colonial sloop?)

link to original record
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2518424 (https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2518424)

M

Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: judb on Monday 02 October 23 05:19 BST (UK)
"HMC"  = (His Majesty's Cutter). 

Just a piece of unrelated information:
HMC Sally was used by surveyor John Bingle in 1821 - see below for his comment
In the month of December, 1821, I first visited Newcastle in command of H. M. C. Sloop Sally, on a voyage to examine and finish the coast survey between Sydney and Torres Straits, especially Moreton Bay; and my report of its capabilities being considered favourable, Mr. Oxley, the Surveyor General, was sent to select and establish the settlement.

It seems probable that the Sally was also used to transport prisoners on the coastal run. 

Judith
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Monday 02 October 23 06:17 BST (UK)
"HMC"  = (His Majesty's Cutter). 

Just a piece of unrelated information:
HMC Sally was used by surveyor John Bingle in 1821 - see below for his comment
In the month of December, 1821, I first visited Newcastle in command of H. M. C. Sloop Sally, on a voyage to examine and finish the coast survey between Sydney and Torres Straits, especially Moreton Bay; and my report of its capabilities being considered favourable, Mr. Oxley, the Surveyor General, was sent to select and establish the settlement.


Thank you for that --very interesting !!!

It seems probable that the Sally was also used to transport prisoners on the coastal run. 

Judith
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Monday 02 October 23 06:53 BST (UK)
The very last time i have JOHN LEE  was here  on Oct  22-1832   in Sydney  Goal  when he was being sent to  District 7 
but have no   idea where that  is  in NSW

He has just had another 50 lashes .
He has had a few 50 's  in Newcastle
And one  of 100 lashes
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: judb on Monday 02 October 23 07:51 BST (UK)
Your clip is from
New South Wales, Australia, Gaol Description and Entrance Books, 1818-1930, Entrance Book, Sydney
1819-1833


I think the column for "Remarks" may actually read:
50 lashes xxxxx
and
xxx of sentence N C

Then the date Nov 7
in column To Whom Discharged - Sally

I think the N C may denote Newcastle as others on the page were being sent there.

Judith
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: susiee on Monday 02 October 23 08:21 BST (UK)
Your clip is from
New South Wales, Australia, Gaol Description and Entrance Books, 1818-1930, Entrance Book, Sydney
1819-1833


I think the column for "Remarks" may actually read:
50 lashes xxxxx
and
xxx of sentence N C

Then the date Nov 7
in column To Whom Discharged - Sally

I think the N C may denote Newcastle as others on the page were being sent there.

Judith


Thanks Judith -  and he has spent  a lot of time in Newcastle  .
I have searched high and low to find his death  but have run out of ideas  other than now checking hospitals as i saw ---possibly ---in the NSW State records index      a few John  Lees ot check .
Title: Re: Can someone read a few lines of 7 Nov 1821 convict travel doc please
Post by: Ada Zeeks on Monday 30 October 23 11:30 GMT (UK)
Matthew - a massive thank you regarding the ship... I learnt something new. I had never heard of the Sloop, so its good to know it was in the name, not the type of ship.