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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Tineke on Wednesday 27 September 23 15:14 BST (UK)
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While looking at my families 1891 census for Shirebrook Derbyshire I found My g grandfather William Henry Burke age 23. Wife Ellen Maria. Son Hugh John William ( my grandfather ) & George my g uncle Then Frances Allan age 25 from Normanby. Dressmaker. Cousin
Back to 1881 I found her on the census for Pleasley which is near Shirebrook with James Ward age 68 son John 33 Daughter Harriet 36. Then Frances Allen age 15 Niece Normanby Scholar .
I would like to know anything about Frances & where she fits into the family. Hope someone can help
Many thanks Tineke
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In 1871 There is a Frances A Allan age 6 in Eston, Yorkshire as niece of William and Margaret Hutchinson
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Thank you I tried but can’t have done it correctly , in my 80 s now .
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https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/guisborough.html
Birth June qtr 1865
Allan, Frances Ann - Mothers maiden surname Limer
Guisbro'. Registration district 9d 461
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Marriage Mar qtr 1859
James Allan
Eliza Limer
Guisbro' RD 9d 663
ADDED
17th February 1859 at Ormesby, Yorkshire
James Allan age 29 -Widower - Father John Allan occ Inn Keeper
Eliza Limer age 23- father Herbert Limer occ Gentlemans Servant
Witnesses
Oliver Buek... ?
Thomas Hardy
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Thank you so much for the information . I must try to get the connection with my family . It’s says cousin on the census l it could be cousin on my grandfathers fathers Burke family or his mothers Charlesworth family , will start looking .
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This looks like James and Eliza in 1871 in Normanby. Children all b Normanby, mmn Limer
James Allan 41 Head b Lofthouse. Joiner
Eliza Allan 31 Wife b Cresswell, Notts
Ellen J Allan 11
Elizabeth Allan 9
Margaret Allan 7
Alice Allan 4
Florence Allan 2
Gap in just the right place for Frances. They also had a son in 1867
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Thanks. This looks very possible. Cresswell where Eliza was born is in the area . I wonder why Frances is not with the family .I looked back to the census before & Frances is with James Ward who was born at Warsop gives Frances as niece she is 15 & a scholar
Still trying to find a connection with my g grandparents , surnames Burke & Charlesworth as they give Frances as cousin .
James Ward gives her as niece , maybe through his wife but seems she must have died as not on the census .
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Maybe family took her on to help out as there were quite a few children
William and Margaret Hutchinson from 1871 are related on the Allan side - Margaret is James' sister. They have another niece, Elizabeth Mary Harker, mmn Allan with them
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None of those names are my families side where she was Cousin. My grandfather was John William Burke. His father William Henry Burke. His mother Ellen Maria Charlesworth
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None of those names are my families side where she was Cousin. My grandfather was John William Burke. His father William Henry Burke. His mother Ellen Maria Charlesworth
The problem is the terms niece and cousin can be used quite loosely and there may be several greats or degrees of removal left out. It's worth looking at any relatives to see how they may or may not connect to each other and at least work out which side of the family they link to. It's not always obvious, especially when the connection is a pair of sisters a generation or two back
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I think John Ward in 1881 may be related by marriage to Frances' mother
Family trees suggest Eliza Lymer's parents are Herbert Lymer and Elizabeth Elliott (of Langworth, Notts)
John Ward can be followed back to 1851 where he has wife Mary and a number of children, in Pleasley. The mother's maiden name on likely birth registrations is Elliott Given the ages, it's quite possible Mary and Elizabeth Elliott are sisters, so John Ward is Frances' great uncle
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I agree with this connection . Have remembered that Frances age 15 was at James Wards house & his daughter Harriet was a dressmaker , this is the occupation Frances gives on the 1901 census age 25
Seems likely Harriet taught her .
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I am going to go through the Charlesworth line to see if there is a connection , It will take some time as it goes back centuries for the most part they lived in the same area .