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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Tineke on Wednesday 27 September 23 15:14 BST (UK)

Title: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Tineke on Wednesday 27 September 23 15:14 BST (UK)
While looking at my families 1891 census for Shirebrook  Derbyshire I found My g grandfather William Henry Burke age 23. Wife Ellen Maria.  Son Hugh  John William ( my grandfather ) & George my g uncle  Then Frances Allan age 25 from Normanby.  Dressmaker. Cousin

Back to 1881 I found her on the census for Pleasley which is near Shirebrook  with James Ward age 68  son John 33 Daughter Harriet 36.   Then Frances Allen age 15 Niece Normanby Scholar .

I would like to know anything about Frances & where she fits into the family.  Hope someone can help
Many thanks Tineke
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 27 September 23 15:46 BST (UK)

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Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 27 September 23 16:40 BST (UK)
I have asked the moderators if they can move your post for you.

In 1871 There is a Frances A Allan age 6 in Eston, Yorkshire as niece of William and Margaret Hutchinson
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Tineke on Wednesday 27 September 23 16:45 BST (UK)
Thank you   I tried but can’t have done it correctly , in my 80 s now .
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 27 September 23 16:48 BST (UK)
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/guisborough.html

Birth June qtr 1865   
Allan,    Frances Ann   - Mothers maiden surname Limer    
Guisbro'. Registration district 9d   461
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 27 September 23 16:50 BST (UK)
Marriage Mar qtr 1859 
James Allan          
Eliza Limer   
Guisbro' RD    9d   663

ADDED
17th February 1859 at Ormesby, Yorkshire
James Allan age 29 -Widower - Father John Allan occ Inn Keeper
Eliza Limer age 23- father Herbert Limer occ Gentlemans Servant
Witnesses
Oliver Buek... ?
Thomas Hardy
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Tineke on Wednesday 27 September 23 17:07 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for the information . I must try to get the connection with my family . It’s says cousin on the census l it could be cousin on my grandfathers fathers Burke family or his  mothers Charlesworth family , will start looking .
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 27 September 23 19:50 BST (UK)
This looks like James and Eliza in 1871 in Normanby. Children all b Normanby, mmn Limer

James Allan    41    Head b Lofthouse. Joiner
Eliza Allan   31    Wife b Cresswell, Notts
Ellen J Allan         11    
Elizabeth Allan   9    
Margaret Allan   7    
Alice Allan           4    
Florence Allan    2    

Gap in just the right place for Frances. They also had a son in 1867
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Tineke on Wednesday 27 September 23 20:06 BST (UK)
Thanks.  This looks very possible. Cresswell where Eliza was born is in the area . I wonder why Frances is not with the family .I looked back to the census before & Frances is with James Ward who was born at Warsop gives Frances as niece she is 15 & a scholar
Still trying to find a connection with my g grandparents , surnames Burke & Charlesworth as they give Frances as cousin .
James Ward gives her as niece , maybe through his wife but seems she must have died as not on the census .
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 27 September 23 20:21 BST (UK)
Maybe family took her on to help out as there were quite a few children

William and Margaret Hutchinson from 1871 are related on the Allan side - Margaret is James' sister. They have another niece, Elizabeth Mary Harker, mmn Allan with them
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Tineke on Wednesday 27 September 23 20:26 BST (UK)
None of those names are my families side where she was Cousin.  My grandfather was John William Burke.  His father William Henry Burke.  His mother Ellen Maria Charlesworth
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 27 September 23 22:09 BST (UK)
None of those names are my families side where she was Cousin.  My grandfather was John William Burke.  His father William Henry Burke.  His mother Ellen Maria Charlesworth

The problem is the terms niece and cousin can be used quite loosely and there may be several greats or degrees of removal left out. It's worth looking at any relatives to see how they may or may not connect to each other and at least work out which side of the family they link to. It's not always obvious, especially when the connection is a pair of sisters a generation or two back

Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 27 September 23 22:14 BST (UK)
I think John Ward in 1881 may be related by marriage to Frances' mother

Family trees suggest Eliza Lymer's parents are Herbert Lymer and Elizabeth Elliott (of Langworth, Notts)

John Ward can be followed back to 1851 where he has wife Mary and a number of children, in Pleasley. The mother's maiden name on likely birth registrations is Elliott  Given the ages, it's quite possible Mary and Elizabeth Elliott are sisters, so John Ward is Frances' great uncle
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Tineke on Thursday 28 September 23 08:47 BST (UK)
I agree with this connection . Have remembered that Frances age 15 was at James Wards house & his daughter Harriet was a dressmaker , this is the occupation Frances gives on the 1901 census age 25
Seems likely Harriet taught her .
Title: Re: Frances Allan b1866. Normanby
Post by: Tineke on Thursday 28 September 23 10:54 BST (UK)
I am going to go through the Charlesworth line to see if there is a connection , It will take some time as it goes back centuries  for the most part they lived in the same area .