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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Patricia Houghton on Sunday 24 September 23 13:13 BST (UK)
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This picture has bugged me for many years.
It is allegedly of my husbands uncle, although we have never been unable to find any marriage record for him and this lady.
I have managed to pin down the marriage to the church as St.Lukes, Redcliffe Square London SW10 from the photographers stamp on the back and also the window in the background of the photograph. Sadly the photographer is no longer in existence so I cannot ask them about the photograph. The records for St.Lukes are not on-line for the period I assume this picture was taken and they only reside in the London Metropolitan Archives which I cannot as yet get to being in Scotland
Any help as to the possible date of the picture would be enormously welcome.
Whatever clues (no matter however small) that you can discern from anything in the picture, may just give me the essential key to unlocking this picture and resolving this conundrum once and for all
Thank you
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Hi
This looks very much like a WW2 wedding. I'd say towards the end of the war. It might be best if this was on the photo board so that more 'daters' could see it.
I'll see if a Mod could move it for you.
Gadget
Add - look through these egs.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sol/
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I notice he has a wound stripe.
These were re-introduced in 1944.
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I'm in no way an expert on wedding dresses, but that looks quite an ornate one for wartime. Maybe a hand-me-down?
Does the groom also have a badge on his left upper arm, or is it a bit of the veil? And what do you know of your husband's uncle's war service - we could possibly say whether it's consistent with the uniform here.
Other than that, who was the photographer, and do you have the dates they were working?
Assuming they're no longer alive, what were the couple's names and dates of birth? Did they have any children, and do you know anything about where they lived and where and when they died? I'm thinking that if one of the names was misspelled at registration, anything that refers to the surnames, or both of the couple together, might help in tracking the marriage down. Church of England marriages are registered at the time of the ceremony, so it would be very unusual for them not to be in the index at all.
Sorry for all the questions - just trying to think of anything that doesn't involve a trip to LMA.
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Could be worth trying newspapers, I had a quick look and a couple of weddings at that church in 1940s came up but without knowing names don’t know if they are relevant.
Do you have any other photos of your husbands uncle to compare to this one? Does it look like him?
Pinetree
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Some more photo with discussion:
https://fashion-era.com/fashion-history/1940s-wedding-dresses
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my parents married in 1943 and the ladies dress and bouquet are very similar
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Re the wound stripe that Jim refers to
See
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/5854-ww1-ww2-wound-stripes/
Scroll down to CROONAERT
Gadget
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First used in WW1 but withdrawn post war & re-introduced in 1944.
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In response to Arthur's comment on the bride's dress, my MIL was married in 1944 and her dress was made from parachute silk as during the war, material was in short supply.
Carol
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…Whatever clues (no matter however small) that you can discern from anything in the picture, may just give me the essential key to unlocking this picture and resolving this conundrum once and for all
Thank you
Her eyebrows are faint, possibly due to the lighting and their pose, or condition of the photo? Or, could she have had red hair? In a couple of photographs of my mum (who was a redhead), I can barely see her eyebrows; your photo reminds me of my mum’s photos.
They appear to be leaning toward each other; if so (and it’s not just my eyes), what a sweet gesture.
Added: would knowing the types of flowers and plants in her bouquet help determine the time of year the photo was taken?
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In response to Arthur's comment on the bride's dress, my MIL was married in 1944 and her dress was made from parachute silk as during the war, material was in short supply.
I'd wondered about parachute silk, but then I thought the skirt looked to be embroidered, or otherwise patterned, and the veil seems to have quite a bit of decoration too. So if it started out as a parachute, it had presumably had quite a lot of intricate work done on it since.
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I don't think it's a pattern on the dress Arthur it is noise picked up by the copying process. I said the dress was most likely made from parachute silk. I never mentioned the veil, that could have been borrowed or previously worn by a relative.
Carol
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I don't think it's a pattern on the dress Arthur it is noise picked up by the copying process.
Possibly - I thought the pattern had a bit of repetition in it, particularly on the right hand side, but I could be wrong.
I said the dress was most likely made from parachute silk. I never mentioned the veil, that could have been borrowed or previously worn by a relative.
I don't think I did suggest that you mentioned the veil (did I?), but whether I did or not, it didn't look to me the kind of thing you'd get new in wartime - or indeed until clothing rationing ended in 1949.
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I go along with Treetotal, it looks like a wedding dress made out of parachute material. My mil was married in 1948 and her dress is similar… my mum and dad were married in 1952 and the neckline was the same sweetheart shape. Mum had a bouquet of red carnations with the trailing ferns too. Mums hair style was closer to this photo than my MIL though.
The brides shoes look like later rather than late 40’s though
I still have the parachute dress upstairs in a box. It’s positively tiny considering my MIL was 5’ 10”
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In response to Arthur's comment on the bride's dress, my MIL was married in 1944 and her dress was made from parachute silk as during the war, material was in short supply.
(Quote)
I'd wondered about parachute silk, but then I thought the skirt looked to be embroidered, or otherwise patterned, and the veil seems to have quite a bit of decoration too. So if it started out as a parachute, it had presumably had quite a lot of intricate work done on it since.
Yes Arthur, see above.
Carol
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I think I've possibly been a bit unclear or ambiguous. This is what I think:
Dress - undecided whether right hand side shows decoration or copying artefacts; possibly from a parachute, otherwise presumably borrowed. Others will know better than I do if the style suggests pre- or post-1939.
Veil (not ex-parachute) - clearly embroidered, and unlikely to have been a new item in wartime
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Here is an example of an embroidered veil*. The date is given as 1944.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/18/a2301418.shtml
It gives a interesting account of how outfits, cake and other food was acquired.
* when the images is enlarged it is very clear
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I know nothing of uniforms, I must tell you.
Is there any significance in the pale/white interfacing on his jacket and his belt colour?
Looking at WW2 images of marriages, I didn’t see one like the groom’s.
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My M-I-L was married in 1942.She had the same big bouquet of Carnations.
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(First images were not correct... deleted)
I saw this as well, & wondered if it might help date the uniform, the cream coloured collar lining & belt was WW2 Battledress uniform... in image, Parachute Regiment.
https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/british-parachute-regiment-sergeant-bd-uniform-set.html
Another similar uniform in a wedding image. https://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/Biog3/Philip_McDonnell_1.htm
It certainly does make sense that Airborne crew would have kept their precious parachutes.
https://cdn.greatlifepublishing.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2018/11/25173419/pd4_gp4unl-728x970.jpg
I just realized that the reason we are seeing the lining is that they are all in casual mode for their weddings.
I know nothing of uniforms, I must tell you.
Is there any significance in the pale/white interfacing on his jacket and his belt colour?
Looking at WW2 images of marriages, I didn’t see one like the groom’s.
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The dress is similar to my mother’s wedding dress, which she saved for and bought at Harrod’s in London, if I am remembering correctly. My parents were married in March 1945. My father wore his Canadian army uniform, unfortunately not his Black Watch kilt.
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I have a photo of my uncle and aunt's wedding which is almost identical - they got married in 1946 or '47 in Lewisham, South London