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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: daisy33 on Monday 18 September 23 21:08 BST (UK)
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I would really appreciate another brain on my missing ancestor.
The details I have are as follows:
William Cleaver born 20 January 1901 in South Mimms, Barnet. ( I have the birth certificate details from the GRO)
He is on 1901 census aged 2 months in South Mimms
and on 1911 census in Hampstead, London.
He then seemed to disappear but I found this record of a William Cleaver in the naval records and at first glance thought it was him but this William Cleaver was born on 20 January 1900 in Wiilesden.
I have searched for a birth in 1900 but cannot find anything at the GRO etc. It seems very coincidental that the birth date of 20 January is the same but the year is out.
Am I just trying to make him fit do you think?
He doesn't appear anywhere else with the rest of the family and was never mentioned by any of the elders.
Sorry for the long message but I am trying to give as much info. as I can.
Any thoughts would be welcome. Thank you
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as you have his birth cert what are his parents names might help to trace him
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Hello
Mother's name Katherine Lucy Cleaver no father's name listed.
He never appears anywhere with his mother on any future census records and not knowing the father's name is a dead end :(
He was listed as a grandson of the head of the household on 1901 census with Katherine also in the household aged 16.
in 1911 he is listed at Katherine's London residence as 'other relative' and it was only by searching the GRO that I discovered she was his birth mother
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There's a Royal Naval Register record for a Mr Cleaver with the 20 Jan 1900 dob - his forenames are John William
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Thank you for that. I have also found a couple of Naval registers for a William Cleaver with the 1900 year of birth but the trouble is that unlike Army records there is no record of next of kin etc. so I have no way of knowing if this is him or not :-\
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his mother married a Anders Petter Naslund 1908
william is with them on 1911 census
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A tree on ancestry has a William Cleaver born 1900 Barnet marrying in Perth Australia to a
Daphne Doreen Pennington 1904–1986.
No day or month of birth for William but his death 8 January 1979.
There are no sources given so maybe finding a death certificate for this man may give more information about his parents and children. There is a daughter for William and his wife on the tree but as she may still be living (born 1930) I can't give her name.
Added: William's mother and Anders Naslund were divorced according to the 1939 entry for him
Cris
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Willesden William is in Garston, Lancs in 1921
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Thank you crisane I will have a look at that. It's the 1900 birth year that's throwing me. I know
they can be out by a year or so but it's worth me trying to follow that one up.
I do have the Divorce info. and subsequent remarriage thank you to you and sandiep for that info,
I have the rest of the family tracked up to the present day; it's just William who is the missing link.
I will see if the Australia one is a link and report back when I can.
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The William Cleaver who died in Fremantle, W.A. in 1978 (death registered in 1979) is on the index as parents unknown, aged 77.
Bev
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I think we are short of info.....do you mean you have williams mothers marriage and a divorce not sure what info you have you say have rest of family so can you just expand for us so we are loooking in right direction ;D ;D
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Passenger list departing London 10 April 1922 for Freemantle has a Wm Cleaver b 1900. Last UK address is given as 13 Lyttleton Road, Aigburth, Liverpool. I would suggest you obtain the 1921 census for Willesden William noted in an earlier post and look at the relationship to head column.
William
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Sorry if I am not posting enough info. I didn't want lovely people wasting their time on information I already have.
I have Katherine's first marriage to Naslund and subsequent divorce, then her second marriage and further children. William is not with any of them on any census after 1911 with any of them or other family info. I have. He is just the missing link.
Mabel the Garston 1921 entry is interesting as William is listed as an adopted son! again I wonder if it is him.
Thank you Bevj for the death info. I think I will try to follow that link.
I do appreciate everyone's help :)
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thanks Daisy it helps to know you only had up to 1911 and what his mothers name was and divorce etc it actually stops us trying to find family info if you can tellus what you know ......doses mean we will find what you need but its fun trying ;D
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Millmoor thank you for the departure information. I have followed up to the Willseden William on 1921 censes and he is listed as adopted son of the widowed head of household Gertrude Mary McManus
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Just to answer your original query, I don't think the Royal Navy man is the same person as 'your' William. On the Navy record the man was born in Willesden Green and prior to joining the Navy in July 1919 he had previously been a steward in the Merchant Navy. In the 1939 Register there's a Horace W Cleaver date of birth 20 Jan 1900 single, a caterer (snack bar) living at 29 Vardens Rd Clapham, so he may possibly be the Navy man. There's a Horace William Cleaver in the 1921 Census living with an Alice Beatrice and Joseph in London. I haven't paid to get more details. However Horace William Cleaver born Q1 1900 to Joseph and Kate Cleaver in Hackney which is the opposite side of London to Willesden Green. In the 1901 Census Horace William is living with parents Joseph and Kate Cleaver at 27 Englefield Rd Hackney, and in 1911 he's still with his parents (married 12 years) at 7 Wellington Road Hackney along with 4 sisters one of who is named Alice B Cleaver. William died in Bermondsey in 1940 aged 40. That all points away from your William being the Navy man, who seems more likely to have been Horace.
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Try Australia WW 2 army service records - there is a William Cleaver there with Date of Birth 20 Jan 1900 but place of birth is given as Barnet, England.( Married to D Cleaver).
Hope this link works.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ListingReports/ItemsListing.aspx
Added : Page 9 of his service record has a photograph of him.
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Thank you Andy, it is seeming that my William isn't the Willesden one bu thank you for your help.
Millmoor thank you again I will follow your link, the magnet for me is the mention of Barnet :)
Will have to sign off for tonight but will report back with any updates.
Thank you kind people
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there is a photo of the willesden william on the merchant navy 1918 in Findmy past much younger
not sure if its same one on the Australian site perhaps someone else could look as well
I am off to Ovaltine and bed :)
so far cant see any William Cleaver b 1900 in Willesden on GRO or Freebmd so could be same man!!
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Some observations about the confused/uncertain identities.
William born at Barnett
He married in Perth in 1928.
The Australian WW2 records for this man
Previous service RNR as a signalman to 25/8/1919.
Hair-fair. Complexion-fair. Eyes -blue. Height -5ft 7in.
Tatoos both forearms.
The photo shows he wears spectacles.
There is his signature on the records.
The UK Navy Records William
Height-5ft 5 3/4in. Hair -brown. Eyes grey. Complexion -fresh.
My reading of the description of his tattoos (see below) is that there is one on each forearm.
The reason for being invalided out in 1921-Hypermetropic Astygmatism. An eyesight problem which would require the wearing of spectacles.
Sue
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Hi.
A daughter of the Barnett/Perth William CLEAVER and wife Daphne Doreen ( referred to above by crisane) named Thelma Doreen Ktretchmar, died a couple of years ago in 2020. Aged 90. She had married in 1952 to Herman W Kretchmar. Reg 2982
Interred Karrakatta Cemetery.
Sue
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Thank you Sue. The differences in height, eye colour etc. could mean they are not the same man and I still have the problem of not being able to tie him back to a birth mother.
I have been unable to find a birth for Willesden William in 1900 though he is recorded as an adopted son on 1921 Garston census!
One thing leads to another ::) I think this may be one ancestor I will only be able to speculate about.
Thank you everyone for your time and help :)
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know what you mean Daisy, sometimes you just have to leave for a while and go back suddenly something jumps out...........I have gone back to people i had searched for number of years for to find them straight away so never say never sandie
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Thanks Sandie, I agree.
Will leave him for a while now and go back to him.
Thank you everyone for all your help and I will post an update if I eventually tie him down :)
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I have last week found my great great grandfathers birth and baptism. I’ve been looking for years … I used to take a step back for a while and then try again.
Nesta