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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: paul_mc on Saturday 16 September 23 18:41 BST (UK)
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Hi All
Looking for some help of those of you who are experts in the Irish Records as I'm going round in circles.
I dont have a massive amount of informtion to go on. Alot is only word of mouth via family.
James Mullan born 1904 and died 25th of January 1963. He married a Margaret but I believe she called herself Margaretta/Margarita. Im told her surname was Bennett - Can find a marriage anywhere.
James was born in Antrim and died there too. I found his grave listed on find a grave and then was able to fine it on a Belfast site which showed the lair and listed 2 other people in the lair - I'm assuming it was his parents James Mullan 1883 - 1946 and Jane Mullan 1887 - 1978. Thats is literally all I have - The family were from the Shankill area of Belfast.
James died at home - 61 Beresford Street, Shankhill, Belfast
I'm hoping someone can build on the small amount of information I have and help me grow this branch of my tree.
Bits of family chat which might be a clue but might be worthless.
It's said Margaret Bennett had a sister called Sally (Sarah)
James and Margaret had at least 2 children - Margaretta 1937 - 2016 and James who may have married a Maureen.
Sorry I know this is all very patchy.
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Marriage between James Mullan and Margaretta Bennett was registered in Newtownabbey 12.7.1930. You can view that on the GRONI site for £2.50.
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk
James junior died intestate. Here’s the probate abstract from the PRONI wills site. The file itself should be in PRONI in paper format. You can go and look it up free or pay PRONI to copy it for you.
Mullan, James of 61 Beresford Street Belfast salesman died 25 January 1963 Administration Belfast 4 March to Margaretta Mullan the widow. Effects £1052 7s.
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Thank you so much - This is a great start!!
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Belfast Telegraph of 26th Jan 1963 reports James death.
One message describes him as “beloved son of Margaret Mullan” indicating his mother’s name was Margaret, and that she was still alive. So the Jane in his grave must be some other relation. Message also mentions sorrowing mother, sisters and brother.
Also a condolence message from Salisbury 3292 RAOB.
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I've checked the record
Got their ages - His father James Mullan and her father looks like Robert S Bennett but it could be Robin as the hand writings not the best
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...and then was able to fine it on a Belfast site which showed the lair and listed 2 other people in the lair - I'm assuming it was his parents James Mullan 1883 - 1946 and Jane Mullan 1887 - 1978.
Occupants of grave E1 254, City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=E1&GraveNumber=254&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery%20-%20Glenalina%20Extension#MOVEHERE
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Got their ages - His father James Mullan and her father looks like Robert S Bennett but it could be Robin as the hand writings not the best
Can you attach a snip of the relevant part of the marriage record please?
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Yes
Thank you for helping
Here is the screenshot.
I'll put Jane to one side for now as she must have been a sister or aunt
Thanks
Paul
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Elwyn
How do I see these newspaper articles - I logged on to find my past and the news papaer achives there but its not showing up
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I have a subscription to the British Newspapers Archive and found them there. (Possibly FindMyPast don’t have the 1960s for the Telegraph).
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I can't yet find a birth for the bride, but here are candidates for her parents marrying in 1911, Robert Stewart Bennett and Sarah Jane Matthews:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09963/5622433.pdf
Note the address and the father's occupation in the following 1920 birth registration for their daughter Sarah (a match for the 1930 marriage record):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01226/1510159.pdf
There was also a daughter Lillie born in 1912:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01494/1607676.pdf
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It’s a bit of a guess but I wondered if this is your Mullan family in the 1911 census. Your James was born c 1906 according to the age on his marriage certificate, and we know his parents were James & Margaret.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Carnmoney/Ballyhowne/187585/
This Margaret’s maiden name was Dowie or Doey. Birth for James:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01744/1688516.pdf
Marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10197/5710368.pdf
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Elwyn has the correct couple, check out the address for the following 1919 birth registration for a son to this couple named Norman, the same address as the 1930 marriage record (73 Eastland Street):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1919/01242/1516445.pdf
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Margaret Dowie and her parents and siblings in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton/Everton_Street/961606/
James Mullan junior in 1901 with his parents:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton_Ward/Hooker_Street/983678/
2 children born in Scotland so the family had evidently lived there for a while.
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And here's maybe a bit of a story, the 'Additional Pages' confirms the address of house 16 as street number 32, which is a match for the bride's address in the 1911 marriage record:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Sancroft_Street/152716/
Is 1 year old 'Maggie Robertson' the bride in 1930?
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Guys you are all wonderful - Thanks so much for everything so far - I'm quickly putting it all together on a tree.....
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I still haven't found a birth for the Margretta (or different spellings) who married James Mullan in 1930, there's a definite whiff of mystery in that 1911 census return for 32 Sancroft Street, however for now, I'm going to guess that the person listed as her father in that 1930 marriage record - Robert S(tewart) Bennett - was the following son named Stewart Bennett born to a shoemaker called Thomas Bennett and Agnes Magee in 1880 (note the twin Margaret Ann above him):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02888/2058302.pdf
Stewart was baptised in St. Patrick's RC Church Belfast on 19 January 1880 as Stuart Robert (no. 2239 below):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633211#page/158/mode/1up
Twin Margaret Ann was baptised in St. Peter's RC Church the following day and a transcript of the baptismal record I can see (on a subscription site) has been annotated to say that the father Thomas was a protestant.
Anyhow, here is the family (I think) in 1901:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Woodvale_Ward/Percy_Street/1007370/
Agnes then died and Thomas remarried, to a Jane McClurg in 1905, his father stated as Stewart Bennett:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10178/5703347.pdf
Here was that couple in 1911:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Wood_Vale_Ward/Cumberland_Street/163767/
And here is the first marriage of Thomas Bennett, to Agnes Magee in 1878, his father given as Stewart Bennett:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11098/8061974.pdf
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Gaffy
I think you are right.
Any clue as to why Robert listed Sarah and Maggie as his cousins? Was it because they were living in sin? Is that what people did? I think Im answering my own question as Maggie born 1910 the census in spring 1911 and then Robert and Sarah married in Nov 1911
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Any clue as to why Robert listed Sarah and Maggie as his cousins? Was it because they were living in sin? Is that what people did? I think Im answering my own question as Maggie born 1910 the census in spring 1911 and then Robert and Sarah married in Nov 1911
Very possibly, there was definitely a stigma in that era, what I can say from past experience is that you can't always take stated relationships (eg. boarder/lodger, cousin, nephew/niece) in Irish Census records on face value, there's sometimes a story behind it.
Sarah might not be the mother, though clearly she's a candidate. The question is, what surname was Maggie/Margaret/Margretta born under... I still haven't found a birth.
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But then I just noticed her name was Robertson - Did Sarah have her prior to meeting Robert Stewart Bennett and he then just passed her off as his own
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That 1911 census return for 32 Sancroft Street showed Sarah Matthews' birth place as Co. Down and her birth year as c. 1887. Her 1911 record of marriage to Robert Stewart Bennett (citing that same address for her) clarified her full name as Sarah Jane Matthews and gave her father as William Matthews, a tailor.
In that light, the following birth registered at Kilmood Co. Down has to be a possibility, a Sarah Jane born on 22 September 1886 at Tullynagee to William Mathews, a tailor and Elizabeth Crookshank:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02596/1959116.pdf
Tullynagee:
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-lower/kilmood/kilmood/tullynagee/
When I went looking for Sarah in the 1901 Ireland census, the closest I could find is this one, a domestic servant in a Jamison household at Lisbarnet, which is in the vicinty of Tullynagee:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Kilwood/Lisbarnet/1257848/
Lisbarnet:
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-lower/kilmood/kilmood/lisbarnet/
William Matthews of Ballydorn married Elizabeth Crookshanks of Killinchy in Comber Remonstrant Church on 14 July 1885:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10873/5971375.pdf
Ballydorn:
https://www.townlands.ie/down/dufferin/killinchy/tullynakill/ballydorn2/
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That big gap between Robert Stewart Bennett and Sarah Jane Matthews having their daughter Lillie in 1912 and Sarah in 1920 set me off looking for a (WW1) military record for the father to explain that. Sure enough, Robert Stewart Bennett signed up in Belfast for the Army Service Corps in May 1915 and was discharged in February 1919, having served some 3 years of that time in France. His regimental no. was 54/127929.
His army record throws more light on the elusive Margaretta. As you'll read, it's definitely him, there isn't any doubt about that. In his attestation, he gave his address as 22 Wellwynne Street and said he was a baker by trade. He gave his next of kin as his wife Sarah and included in the army record is a copy of his 1911 marriage certificate issued by Trinity Church of Ireland, Belfast.
Under 'Particulars as to Children', he listed 'Madge', born 4 (or maybe 14) April 1910 in Ayr Scotland, and Lily born 23 March 1912 in Canmore Street, Belfast. Included in the army record are copies of baptism certificates issued by Trinity Church of Ireland, Belfast. The first is for Lillie, baptised on 29 May 1912, date of birth 23 March 1912, parents recorded as Robert Stewart (a baker) and Sarah Jane Bennett of 139 Canmore Street. The second is for 'Margareta', baptised the same day as Lillie, date of birth 14 April 1910, parents recorded as Robert Stewart (a baker) and Sarah Jane Bennett of 139 Canmore Street.
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Gaffy
Thank you once again - This really is outstanding. I would never have been able to do this myself.
Thanks for the toime you have spent on this and thank you for all of the answers.
I guess the biggest question now is Margaretta Mullan (Born Robertson) Did Sarah have a baby prior to marrying Robert - I think so.
Best wishes
Paul
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A likely (but not guaranteed) scenario is that Sarah Jane Matthews did indeed have Margaretta before she married Robert Stewart Bennett and that Robert Stewart Bennett was the father. If the child was registered for civil purposes (and that remains an 'if'), we don't know the forename and surname under which that took place. I've checked under different permutations of name but I haven't been able to find a birth registration for her so far in Scotland (following the Ayr lead) or in Ireland. I think the surname Robertson might simply have been an invention to satisfy the outward appearance they wanted to display in the 1911 census return for 32 Sancroft Street, the surname might have no family relevance at all.
What we do know is that Robert Stewart Bennett presented Madge/Margreta as his own daughter from an early stage, his army record, including the baptismal certificate in 1912 leaves no doubt on that score.
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I've looked on Scotlands People
No Robertson, Stewart, or Matthews listed in 1910 Ayr
The mystery continues ......
Paul
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Going back to the Mullan side for a moment...
To recap. The parents of the James Mullan b. 1906 who married Margaretta Bennett in 1930 were found to be James Mullan and Margaret Dowie (or spelling variants), when they married at Trinity Church of Ireland, Belfast, in 1904, that James' father was recorded as James Mullan a baker, in the 1911 Ireland census, James Mullan and Margaret Dowie and family were living in the townland of Ballyhowne in Carnmoney civil parish (Elwyn's post at reply #11).
Going back to the 1901 Ireland census, the same James Mullan who went on to marry Margaret Dowie in 1904 was shown as a 17 year old in the household of his parents at house 27 in Hooker Street Belfast, his parents were shown as James (a baker) and Agnes Mullan, also in the household were a Jane and Jemima Mullan, both with a stated birth place of Scotland (Elwyn's post at reply #13).
So further to those findings, by taking that Hooker Street household forward to the 1911 Ireland census, one finds that James senior (now an unemployed baker) and his wife Agnes Mullan, just like their son and daughter-in-law, were also living in the townland of Ballyhowne in Carnmoney civil parish:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Carnmoney/Ballyhowne/187610/
In the above census return, it says that James and Agnes were married c. 1878. The two Scottish born children were still in the household, except that Jemima was called what I think was meant to be Wilhelmina ('Whillimina'). A quick check of the births index on the 'ScotlandsPeople' website for those names and the birth years indicated by the census returns quickly brings back a Jane Mullan born 1887 and a 'Williamina' Mullan b. 1891, both registered in districts in the greater Glasgow area and both with a mother's maiden name recorded as Galway. Leading on from that, here is the birth registration for a James Mullan, born on 10 May 1883 at 24 McTier Street, Belfast, to a baker called James Mullan and an Agnes Galway:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02739/2007064.pdf
Therefore, it's looking very likely that the James Mullan who married Margaret Dowie in 1904 was the son of James Mullan and Agnes Galway, who were married in Trinity Church of Ireland, Belfast, on 6 July 1878 (the 1911 census was spot on), with the two fathers recorded as James Mullan (not again!) and Isaac Galway, both labourers:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11106/8065231.pdf
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Turning to the Dowies in that 1901 census return for house 67 in Everton Street, with a father's name as singular as Benjamin Dowie, a possibility readily presents itself for the birth registration of the Margaret Jane Doey who married James Mullan in 1904, it's for a daughter of that name born on 23 August 1886 at 30 Ewarts Row, Belfast, to Benjamin Dowie and Susan Haycock:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02595/1958592.pdf
Benjamin Doey and Susan Haycock were married on 5 March 1881 in the (Church of Ireland) parish church at Ballymacarrett, the two fathers given as John Doey, labourer and Thomas Haycock, bundler:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10988/8017383.pdf
I've only glanced at this, but it seems like a reasonable punt.
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Wow
This is great
Only thing I'm wondering - They have James recorded as 4 years old on the 1911 census when we know that he was born 1883
They do say they had 7 children and 5 living
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Only thing I'm wondering - They have James recorded as 4 years old on the 1911 census when we know that he was born 1883
James b. 1883 is with his wife and family nearby in Ballyhowne, that 4 year old must be another James, I haven't looked into him, but perhaps Joseph's son.
Edited to add: I also wouldn't be surprised if it was a double entry in the census for the son James born to James Mullan and Margaret Dowie, the families were living near each other, maybe 4 year old James was visiting the grandparents. It looks like the Joseph Mullan listed as married in that 1911 census return was married to Susanna Patterson in 1906, I can see possible children to the couple, but no James to match the 4 year old in the census return:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10123/5683040.pdf
BTW, I should have said by now, the Jane Mullan in grave E1 254, City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension (reply #5) may well be Jemima's sister Jane, the one born in Scotland. The age in the burial record is in the ballpark and I haven't yet found a marriage record for her.
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The William Matthews mentioned in this chat Is my great grandfather x