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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: bigt on Thursday 14 September 23 10:30 BST (UK)

Title: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: bigt on Thursday 14 September 23 10:30 BST (UK)
Hello,

I have an Isabella Kirtley born c1871, and in the 1881 census for Whitworth (Spennymoor) her place of birth is given as Durham, Black Horse.

Any ideas where that could be?
Thanks
Tom
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: AllanUK on Thursday 14 September 23 10:59 BST (UK)
There was a Black Horse Inn at Cornsay, Co Durham. It closed in the early 2000s.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: AllanUK on Thursday 14 September 23 11:02 BST (UK)
There is a Black Horse Inn still open at Spennymoor.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 14 September 23 11:21 BST (UK)
FindMyPast has the baptism (transcript only) of an

Isabella Kirtley, bap 8 Dec 1872, place Tanfield, parents George and Jane. Just east of Tanfield is the Black Horse P.H.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101099588#zoom=5&lat=4846&lon=6332&layers=BT

Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: bigt on Thursday 14 September 23 13:42 BST (UK)
Many thanks to all

Tom
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 15 September 23 11:57 BST (UK)
2 Isabellas?

1881 Census
Isabella Kirtley, 1871    Black Horse, Durham, Granddaughter of ANN age 73
Possible Daug of John, a Mason in  same Census.

Isabella with Parents GEORGE/Jane is with them 1881 Census born c 1873 Lanchester


Black Horse Isabella seems to have married as Amelia Isabella Kirtley 1892 to William Sawdon/Sawden.

1901 Isabella Sawdon is born c 1871 Blackhorse, Durham.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: Elliven on Saturday 11 November 23 14:46 GMT (UK)
Are you sure it is Black Horse?  Could it be Blackhouse?  There is a small village of this name just outside Craghead in County Durham.  Much of it has now been demolished but it was much bigger even as recently as the 1950s/1960s.  What remains is alongside the Stanley to Durham road just before you get to Edmondsley.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: JenB on Saturday 11 November 23 16:28 GMT (UK)
Are you sure it is Black Horse?  Could it be Blackhouse?  There is a small village of this name just outside Craghead in County Durham.  Much of it has now been demolished but it was much bigger even as recently as the 1950s/1960s.  What remains is alongside the Stanley to Durham road just before you get to Edmondsley.

The entries definitely say Black Horse.

The map linked in hanes teulu's reply 3 shows it adjacent to Beamish Red Row,
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101099588#zoom=5&lat=4948&lon=7874&layers=BT
and this is confirmed by the 1871 census, snip below (reference is RG 10/ 4955/ 57/7)
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: Elliven on Wednesday 08 October 25 01:13 BST (UK)
bigt, JenB and anyone who may still be interested. 

Beamish Red Row was not a village but a street of houses and [The] Black Horse was a small public house within that street.  It was nicknamed the Matchbox and it is still there but it has been developed into a superior wedding venue.

It was all part of a village named Causey (sometimes spelled Cawsey) in Tanfield Parish, which was largely demolished around the 1930s to make way for a new and direct road to Newcastle from Stanley.  The map supplied by hanes teleu clearly shows the location together with several references to Causey.

Landlords from 1851-1873 (at least) were the Jackson family  but she may have been the child of a servant there.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: AllanUK on Wednesday 08 October 25 10:44 BST (UK)
Thank you for the update.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 08 October 25 12:07 BST (UK)
Her father does appear to be John Kirtley.

There are a few others born Black Horse, Durham, those I've found for sure so far appear to come from Tudhoe. The colliery there seems to have been known as Black Horse Colliery for a time.
There may have been a Black Horse Inn there as well.
But would she really give an inn as her birthplace, as she does in 1901 and 1911?

Confused by John's age in the 1881 transcript
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7572/records/4024051

But here he is age 17 in Whitworth in 1861, born Byers Green, occupation Mason.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7C1-BKD

In 1871 he is married to Jane, and living in Tudhoe
They have a 1 month old daughter, but her name is Jane, born Byers Green ???
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5902fcd7e9379091b1252175
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: AlanBoyd on Wednesday 08 October 25 13:46 BST (UK)
Landlords from 1851-1873 (at least) were the Jackson family  but she may have been the child of a servant there.

An earlier sighting of a Jackson at Black Horse?, perhaps a little odd that it doesn’t say ‘inn’ or ‘house of’…

22 November 1828: Newcastle Courant
Quote
FOUND, on Saturday the 15th inst. at Beamish, a large Brown and White NEWFOUNDLAND DOG. The Owner may have him again on paying all reasonable Charges, by applying to John Jackson, Black Horse, Beamish. If not claimed in a few Days after this Notice, he will be sold to defray the Expence of his Keep.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: AlanBoyd on Wednesday 08 October 25 13:52 BST (UK)
Tanfield, tithe records of 1847, at the position of Red Row on later maps:

owner John Eden Esq.; occupiers, Francis Jackson and others: "Cottages garth and ground formerly part of Blackburn Fell"
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 08 October 25 19:29 BST (UK)
Isabella with Parents GEORGE/Jane is with them 1881 Census born c 1873 Lanchester

Trish has ruled out the Tanfield baptism.

There is no evidence that Isabella born Black Horse was from the village of Causey, from Tanfield, or even really that she was born at an inn :(

In 1911 Isabella says she was born Black Horse near (nr is inserted) Durham.
Meanwhile, John is supposed to be married according to the 1881, but he remarried in June quarter 1881 to Isabella Renison.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: Elliven on Thursday 09 October 25 13:16 BST (UK)
Black Horse is the pub.  The street of houses in which it stands is Red Row and the whole area is, or rather was, Causey Village in the parish of Tanfield.

Causey village was one of the oldest villages in County Durham but all of the oldest buildings were demolished to make way for the new road.  They were declared unfit for human habitation but that may have been a politically motivated decision to ease the building of the new road which was a long fairly straight and wide road through from Stanley to Newcastle.  The old road was a tortuous, winding narrow lane which became impassable during the winter snow as it was very hilly, whereas the new road was flat.  Snow ploughs were often stuck on the old road but the new one was easily cleared and ensured that traffic could get through to Newcastle.

Both roads are still there and are known locally as the New Road and the Old Road - even though the "new" one is now nearly 90 years old!

Way back in the 1980s, the landlady told me that the pub had been run on a very casual basis and the pub was not even properly licensed in the early 1800's but she did not know the name of the landlord who finally organised it properly.  But he did it to capture some of the trade from the nearby Causey Arch Inn.
Title: Re: Black Horse, County Durham
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 09 October 25 17:31 BST (UK)
This is the pub...

There is a Black Horse Inn still open at Spennymoor.

The Black Horse Inn in Tudhoe / Spennymoor
There was a Black Horse Farm there.
Then a colliery, known at the time as the Black Horse Colliery
The Black Horse Inn dates back to the same time as the colliery, opened in the 1860's

John Kirtley was living at Tudhoe Colliery in the 1871 census.
I don't know what happened to his wife Jane.
There seems to be no birth registration for the daughter Jane, age 1 month in that census (nor has a baptism been found)
Her age pretty much matches Isabella's age in the 1921 census, 50 years and four months.
I guess John and his wife settled on Isabella for her name, rather than Jane.