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Family History Documents and Artefacts => FH Documents and Artefacts => Topic started by: ChrisAllonby on Tuesday 12 September 23 18:22 BST (UK)
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Anyone know precisely what items will be on a death cert. from 1958? I'm hoping it would include a woman's maiden name. Ordering the certificate in question will be a bit of a punt - can't be sure it relates to the person I'm researching - but the maiden name would confirm it, or not, as the case may be.
Thanks,
Chris.
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Information given on death certificates
In England and Wales, a death certificate holds the following information:
date and place of death – from the late nineteenth century an address may be given rather than the name of an institution (e.g. City Hospital will appear as 77 Dudley Road)
name of the deceased
sex, age and occupation of deceased and possibly their home address
the cause of death – if there was an inquest it may be possible to obtain a copy of the coroner’s report
the name and address of informant and possibly their relationship to the deceased
If the deceased was a child or a single woman, the name of the father is shown.
From 1969 a death certificate also includes the date and place of birth of the deceased, and the maiden name of a married woman.
SS
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I have just looked at my grandmother's death certificate, she died in 1967, and there is no maiden name.
Carolyn
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Thanks both for the information. Unfortunately it means there's probably little point in my obtaining a certificate. I'm fairly certain the 96 year old who died in 1958 is the person I've identified as being born in 1862 (no other FreeBMD records match), but without maiden name confirmation I couldn't be certain, unless possibly the informant details clarify it. Emm ... maybe it is worth risking the £11 (pdf not available for this one).
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Do have this person in 1939 war register
SS
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Yes, yes, yes! Thank-you for the suggestion. A previous search I carried out in FindMyPast, based on name and age, did come up with a record in Bristol, which is not far from the home town of the subject (Chepstow), but I didn't follow it up at the time. I've just been on there again and used the advanced search facility and entered the address in Bristol, and sure enough, there she is, living with her daughter and son-in-law, thereby confirming I've got the right person. However, I'm perhaps still struggling with the death cert. I'd like the death cert. to possibly confirm that the subject lived to the grand old age of 96 - and that I've got the right person.
The person in question is Elizabeth Kennedy (nee Stephens), born 1862 in Chepstow, and the death record I'm wondering about is Elizabeth Kennedy, died 1958 in Cardiff.
Thanks again for the 1939 suggestion. I'll get that document at least.
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https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1167572/OV_02.2_OV_Death_certificates_leaflet_Web.pdf
Wouldn't it say widow of.... under ocupation?
I have 1960 and 1962 certificates with this on.
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https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1167572/OV_02.2_OV_Death_certificates_leaflet_Web.pdf
Wouldn't it say widow of.... under ocupation?
I have 1960 and 1962 certificates with this on.
Good point. Yes, that would probably confirm it. She was a widow, but her husband's name was James - fairly common - but there can't be many instances of Elizabeth Kennedy married to James Kennedy and born in 1862. I've been looking again at the FreeBMD records and there isn't anything other than the 1958 record in Cardiff. I'll bite the bullet and order the cert.
Thanks,
Chris.
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It will of course depend if the person registering her death knew her husband's name and / or what job he did. If hubby died many years before she did,it is likely that no one actually knew him.
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As has previously been suggested I think you will need to "bite the Bullet" and order the death cert. We know that she was living in 1939 with daughter Mary U Swain and she died at the same address in 1962 according to probate record. Cannot find any electoral register entries 1945-62 for that address to see if Elizabeth was with her still.
SS
added, there's a good chance that any of the six children that outlived James & Elizabeth had was a witness to her death, 2 died before Elizabeth
Elizabeth's daughter's Kathleen Charlotte Elliot (died 1977) & Elizabeth Winifred Fennell (died 1967) & Ellen Josephine Partridge(died 1971)were all living in Cardiff in 1939 war register. All died in Cardiff.
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As has previously been suggested I think you will need to "bite the Bullet" and order the death cert. We know that she was living in 1939 with daughter Mary U Swain and she died at the same address in 1962 according to probate record. Cannot find any electoral register entries 1945-62 for that address to see if Elizabeth was with her still.
SS
added, there's a good chance that any of the six children that outlived James & Elizabeth had was a witness to her death, 2 died before Elizabeth
Elizabeth's daughter's Kathleen Charlotte Elliot (died 1977) & Elizabeth Winifred Fennell (died 1967) & Ellen Josephine Partridge(died 1971)were all living in Cardiff in 1939 war register. All died in Cardiff.
Certificate ordered! Thanks for looking up the details. I've followed this up and got all the relevant 1939 images for the family members. Given that three of Elizabeth's children were living in Cardiff it looks very likely that the record from 1958 does relate to her. It seems only Mary Ursula Swain had any family (I've been in touch with her descendants).
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It will of course depend if the person registering her death knew her husband's name and / or what job he did. If hubby died many years before she did,it is likely that no one actually knew him.
Her husband died in December 1911, but based on material from the 1939 Register that's now come to light (see earlier posts), I'm hoping I can verify this by the name of the informant, and I guess the potential informants would know her maiden name.
Thanks, Chris
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The below addresses may help. They are the residing places of the 3 daughters in 1957/8 in Cardiff, they may appear on death certificate re the informants abode.
Elizabeth Winifred Fennell-- 17, Tredelerach Road, Cardiff
Ellen Josephine Partridge -- 265A Allensbank Road Cardiff
Kathleen Charlotte Elliott -- 35, Axminster Road, Cardiff
SS
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Probate record of James Kennedy, although he died in late 1911, probate is 1912.
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Thanks for the info. I'll let you know the outcome when the certificate arrives (7 day lead time).
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Please do let us know the outcome
SS
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The certificate finally arrived - five working days after being despatched!
Elizabeth Kennedy was living with her daughter, Ellen Partridge, when she died. Ellen was the informant. This means there's no doubt that I've identified the correct Elizabeth Kennedy. The certificate provides further confirmation in that her 'Occupation' is given as 'Widow of James Kennedy, Shopkeeper, Confectioner'.
Thanks everyone for the advice given above. However, I have another little problem! James Kennedy features in the Ancestry trees of three families. Each of them identifies his father as William Kennedy, born 1825, and his mother as Margaret Kennedy, born 1827. Previously, I'd obtained the marriage certificate of James and Elizabeth, and James's father is named as Matthew Kennedy - not William. I assume the marriage certificate is correct, which means each of the Ancestry tree owners is incorrect in identifying William Kennedy. The tree owners are using an 1871 census return showing a family called Kennedy living in Newport; this surely must be the wrong family, even though the age of James in the 1871 census return matches his age from other sources.
I've just ordered another death certificate, that of Matthew Kennedy, died in Chepstow age 75 in 1898. It looks like it could be James Kennedy's father. Any thoughts on all of this would be gratefully received.
Thanks,
Chris.
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Possibly Matthew in 1891
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4V1K-M2M
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Glad you have the correct death certificate for Elizabeth, one issue resolved.
Quote:
Previously, I'd obtained the marriage certificate of James and Elizabeth, and James's father is named as Matthew Kennedy - not William.
James & Elizabeth married 1887
Does the marriage certificate record James as a bachelor or widower. My reason for asking is that in the 1891 census we have
James Kennedy 32 occ *** in Shipyard born Ireland
Elizabeth 27 occ-Confectioner--born Monmouthshire *******
Mathew 9 Scholar born Monmouthshire (should the age be 9 months)
Mary 2 born Glous
Birth of Mary
KENNEDY, MARY URSULA mmn STEPHENS
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 7
So who is Mathew c1882 is he from a previous marriage?
SS
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Possibly Matthew in 1891
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4V1K-M2M
Yes, that is probably him. The age (69) is right and so is the location (Middle Street, Chepstow), which is about 100 yards from the address of James Kennedy.
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Does the marriage certificate record James as a bachelor or widower. My reason for asking is that in the 1891 census we have
James Kennedy 32 occ *** in Shipyard born Ireland
Elizabeth 27 occ-Confectioner--born Monmouthshire *******
Mathew 9 Scholar born Monmouthshire (should the age be 9 months)
Mary 2 born Glous
SS
He's stated as Bachelor. The age given for Mat[t]hew is wrong. I have his birth certificate and he was born on 27 Sep 1889. I tried to insert an image of the relevant part of the census return but I haven't worked out how to do it yet, so I've attached it as a file (is it permissible to display such material on this site?). The age of '1' has been crossed out and replaced with '9', I assume by the enumerator. Why this has been done is not clear.
Matthew (born 1889) is actually my main focus of enquiry. He's not a member of my family, but was closely associated with my relatives for many years. At some point during the 1900s he changed his name from Matthew Kennedy to James Devauden. It really is a strange case, which I'm writing up at the moment.
Thanks,
Chris.
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I see James Matthew Devauden died at 6, Lightburn Road, Ulverston. Strange I live but half a mile away from that address.
SS
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I see James Matthew Devauden died at 6, Lightburn Road, Ulverston. Strange I live but half a mile away from that address.
SS
Are you a fellow Ulverstonian? I was born in the town. Lived in Richmond Terrace.
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Hi Chris, I'm the original Essex boy, moved to Ulverston some 15 years ago to be near family. Lovely market town with so much going on.
SS
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Hi Chris, I'm the original Essex boy, moved to Ulverston some 15 years ago to be near family. Lovely market town with so much going on.
SS
Yes, a great place. It's just a pity that many of the pubs I remember as a lad have now closed. :(
I now have the death cert. for Matthew Kennedy (snr), and it confirms that he was the father of James Kennedy; confirmation by address - same as his son's, and informant - James.
I've now identified a marriage in 1878 between a Matthew Kennedy and Mary Ann Cole. I suspect this is the same Matthew, and it could be a second marriage. I've had to order another certificate (pdf not available). The costs are mounting up! ::)