RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: andreafrost on Wednesday 06 September 23 13:45 BST (UK)
-
Trying to find out details of an ancestor named Ellen Thomas/Churchill who I've found on a few census records in Cardiff. Born 1852 in Kilkenny. Her first three children Alice, Meriam and Mary Ann were born Churchill and were baptised in the Workhouse in Cardiff. So was Ellen ever a Churchill? I can't find a marriage between Ellen and William Thomas who she is named with on the census. She did go on to have further children I'm presuming with William. On Meriam's marriage certificate it names her father as Henry Churchill but did this man ever exist? I'm at a brick wall and no idea where to look for Ellen's origins. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks
-
Presumably this is the family in 1881 Cardiff
William Thomas 32 occ Labourer general bn Whitchurch, Glamorganshire
Ellen Thomas 29 bn Kilkenny, Ireland
Meriam Thomas Dtr age 7
Alice Thomas Dtr age 3
Mary Ann Thomas Dtr age 2
Children all bn Cardiff
-
CHURCHILL, ALICE -
GRO Reference: 1877 Dec Quarter in OF CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 274
THOMAS, MARY ANN mmn CHURCHHILL
GRO Reference: 1879 June Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 237
-
On Meriam's marriage certificate it names her father as Henry Churchill but did this man ever exist? I'm at a brick wall and no idea where to look for Ellen's origins. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks
I see that Meriam married as Churchill
Other childrens birth registrations
THOMAS, ELIZABETH mmn CHURCHILL
GRO Reference: 1882 June Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 246
THOMAS, GEORGE mmn CHURCHILL
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in OF CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 310
-
Thank you all - that is the right person I didn't know about Elizabeth Thomas
-
There is a tree on A* that gives Ellen’s maiden name as O’Malley.
Unfortunately no source of information given.
-
There is a tree on A* that gives Ellen’s maiden name as O’Malley.
Unfortunately no source of information given.
There's an Ellen O'Malley / William Thomas marriage in Cardiff in 1926.
-
Here they are in 1901
Wm Thomas 53 b Tongwynlais
Ellen Thomas 54 b Kilkenny
Wm J Thomas 16
George Thomas 14
Samuel Thomas 10 [registered as Tom, mmn Churchill]
Dinah Thomas 6 [GRO register say Sina, mmn Churchill]
Alfred Talbot 31 Visitor
Miram Talbot 27 Visitor
James Talbot 7 Visitor
Ellen Talbot 5 Visitor
Alfred Talbot 1 Visitor
George was actually a twin - sister Maria, mmn Churchill has same registration reference
-
And 1911 - suggesting a marriage in 1881/82
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6V-JCM
-
There is an Ellen Mealy born 15/6/1864 in Kilkenny to John Mealy and Mary Carroll Mealy
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01smt/
This means she may have been a minor at the time of her marriage if this is her registration.
The name seems to be Maily, Malley, Mally and O'Mally/O'Malley.
-
There is an Ellen Mealy born 15/6/1864 in Kilkenny to John Mealy and Mary Carroll Mealy
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01smt/
This means she may have been a minor at the time of her marriage if this is her registration.
The name seems to be Maily, Malley, Mally and O'Mally/O'Malley.
Given Meriam Churchill was born c1873 I think this birth is fairly unlikely to be her mother
-
There is an Ellen Mealy born 15/6/1864 in Kilkenny to John Mealy and Mary Carroll Mealy
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01smt/
This means she may have been a minor at the time of her marriage if this is her registration.
The name seems to be Maily, Malley, Mally and O'Mally/O'Malley.
Given Meriam Churchill was born c1873 I think this birth is fairly unlikely to be her mother
I accept that.....had not twigged about the specific ancestor. My post was more to remind searchers not to be closed when looking for the names of ancestors as spelling was not fixed in times gone by.
Just a reminder also that Meriam may be the latinised version of Mary or Miriam/Maryam etc
'The correct spelling is "Myriam." Myriam represents the Hebrew Old Testament version of Mary's name. In Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus, Joseph and Mary, Mary is called Maryam. The Greek translation of the Old Testament calls her Mariam, whereas with New Testament Greek she is Maria.'
Wiki
Egyptian: Beloved, wished-for child. Latin: Star of the sea.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sn3/
-
Trying to find out details of an ancestor named Ellen Thomas/Churchill who I've found on a few census records in Cardiff. Born 1852 in Kilkenny.
...
Where has the date and place of birth for Ellen come from please?
I can see the place Kilkenny, on the census in 1901 found by Mabel Bagshawe. .
What is the earliest record showing her birth date and place of birth please?
-
In Kilkenny there are several people with the name Curcell and that might be a spelling of Churchill?
Also the name Purcell may have become scrambled into Curcell/Churchill.
-
The date and place of birth have come from the census, the earliest census I can find her is on 1881 and she is then with William Thomas. There are a lot of workhouse listings for her, Miriam and Alice starting from 1877.
-
There is a tree on A* that gives Ellen’s maiden name as O’Malley.
Unfortunately no source of information given.
There's an Ellen O'Malley / William Thomas marriage in Cardiff in 1926.
[/b]
I think that marriage is a strong possibility.
In 1911 Ellen is aged 66 and born County Kilkenny, Ireland. = approx c1845
In 1921 Ellen is aged 72y 8 mths Born Town of Callan, Ireland = c1848
Possible death
Deaths Mar 1933
Thomas Ellen 86 Cardiff 11a 613 = c1847
Info:
Callan is a town and civil parish in County Kilkenny in Ireland. Situated 16 km south of Kilkenny
SS
-
Yes I would look closely at it too as they may have decided to get married either to regularise things for the pension and such or because an impediment to marriage to an earlier marriage such as a marriage to another person may have been resolved....by the death of a former partner.
-
Thanks all - will definitely look at that marriage in 1926 - its worth a try. I'm just confused why she used the name Churchill, unless of course this was the name of the first children's father?
-
Do any of the other children put "Henry Churchill engineer" as their father when they marry?
-
I don't have any other marriage certificate, just Miriams