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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: neelawson on Saturday 02 September 23 21:02 BST (UK)
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The top line and repeated for son lower down
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Looks like Turley to me
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Looks like Tinley to me as the N looks the same as in Ann, but could be Turley...
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On balance, I think it's Turley. The family are possibly in Staffordshire in the 1881. Different wife but a marriage to an Ann in Middlesbrough in 1890.
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I see Tinley.
Carol
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Both Roger and Sarah, the children on the census, are *registered as Turley.
*add - birth registrations from GRO.
** A little more info:
MMN on both Roger and Sarah's Birth Registrations was Clansey.
Roger Turley m Ellen Clansey Q1 1870 West Bromwich
Ellen Turley died Q1 1888, Middlesbrough
Roger Turley m Ann Brown Q2 1890, Middlesbrough
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Both Roger and Sarah, the children on the census, are *registered as Turley.
*add - birth registrations from GRO.
** A little more info:
MMN on both Roger and Sarah's Birth Registrations was Clansey.
Roger Turley m Ellen Clansey Q1 1870 West Bromwich
Ellen Turley died Q1 1888, Middlesbrough
Roger Turley m Ann Brown Q2 1890, Middlesbrough
With Gadget independent sources & wife Ann surname Brown and stepson - Frank Brown on the 1891 census to me wraps up the surname was transcribed correct as Turley
Census 1891
Ormesby, North Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom
Rodger Turley
Birth 1850 Tube Maker
Ann Turley Wife
Tom Hauxwell Step-son
Samuel Hauxwell Step-son
Roger Turley Son
Sarah A Turley Daughter
Matilda Turley Daughter
Mary Ann Brown
Step-daughter
Frank Brown Step-son
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Info only from 1891 census
Ann Turley Wife
WATERS, ANN mmn SKELTON
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in SCARBOROUGH Volume 24 Page 429
Tom Hauxwell Step-son
HAWXWELL, TOM WARTERS
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in SCARBRO Volume 09D Page 340
Samuel Hauxwell Step-son
HAWXWELL, SAMUEL WATERS
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in SCARBOROUGH Volume 09D Page 327
Mary Ann Brown Step-daughter
BROWN, MARY ANNIE WATERS
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in SCARBOROUGH Volume 09D Page 385
Possibly named after Ann's 1st daughter Mary Ann Hawkswell born 14.2.1864, buried 16.2.1864, parents Thomas & Ann
Frank Brown Step-son
BROWN, FRANK ANN WATER
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in SCARBOROUGH Volume 09D Page 381
SS
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Time on my hands,
Marriages Mar 1864
Hawxwell Thomas
Warters Ann Scarbro 9d 455 Image of marriage on FindMyPast
1851 census ref for Ann Warter
Piece 2368
Folio 107
Page number 5
Tom HAUXSWELL baptised 29.3.1868
Samuel HAWXWELL born 8.9.1870, baptised 27.8.1871
Parents Thomas, farm lab & Ann
Ann appears in 1871 census with Tom & Samuel in the household of Dixon Prince & wife Sarah nee' Hawkwell
SS
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Some of my notes so far.
I have viewed the marriage certs, etc.
Ann b. !840
Sarah Richardson Hawxwell, 1837 m Dixon Prince
1864 -Ann Warters m Thomas Hawxwell, Feb 1 1864 at Cayton. Fatehr was a Samuel Warters, a shoemaker
Marriage 10 March 1877 - Ann Hawxwell wid and John Brown. Father was Samuel Waters John's was Francis Brown a sexton
1881 - John Brown (b. 1838 Allerston) & Ann Brown with s/s Samuel Hawxwell
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I think this is what you needed to confirm
Ann Turley died Q2 1898 ,Middlesbrough, aged 58.
Gadget
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Confirmation of Ann's parentage,
Samuel Warters married Mary Anne Skelton 18.4.1833 parish of Cayton
WATERS, ANN mmn SKELTON
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in SCARBOROUGH Volume 24 Page 429
SS
added, 1841 census ref
Piece 1260
Folio 6
Page number 6
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And the Browns
John Brown in 1841
Allerston
Francis Brown, 45, Ag Lab
Elizabeth,45
Charles, 10
Sarah, 9
Ann, 7
mary, 6
John 4
Hannah, 2
Ruth, 1 mth
All b. Yorkshire
Gadget
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Ruth bpt 25 April 1841, Allerston
Reg Pickering Q2, 1841
Mother's maiden name - Nellis.
Add - George Nellis, 65 and George Nellis, 25 were with the Browns in 1841.
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Either sign in or register and then sign inn to familysearch LDS website
https://www.familysearch.org/en/
then
click this link or copy in a browser address bar
https://www.familysearch.org/search/linker?ark=/ark:/61903/1:1:66BG-ZQR3&id=GNZ8-FFH&hinting=/tree/person/details/
in the link click detail right hand side
and siblings of Thomas Hauxwell b 1868 at the bottom of page
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Many thanks to everyone who's replied to this thread, I didn't realise there's been ongoing posts as i don't seem to get notified and they've widened the discussion way beyond merely deciphering a name to a bigger part of my family tree and been very informative.
I am the grandson of the Frank Brown mentioned in posts and it now seems my paternal great grandmother was the Ann Turley/Brown/Hauxwell nee Warters who's mentioned in posts. Much to my surprise she can't be the 'Mrs Brown' who I'd thought was my paternal great grandmother as Ann died in 1898 and I have 2 press cuttings of 'Mrs Brown' from the Middlesbrough-based North Eastern Daily Gazette, one from 28 July 1932 and one probably from 1934. In both she is named on a pensioners' outing from Newport area of Middlesbrough and attributed the ages of 87 and 89 respectively so born about 1845. These cuttings were with other family photos hence my assumption that the lady in question was my great grandmother, now she's a mystery.
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Little tip for other readers of this thread - with census surname spellings issues
Just check out a few of the inhabitants birth years on the census address list on FindMyPast, Ancestry, Freebmd, GRO or Familysearch LDS (IGI) under the different thought spellings of a surname for
matches of the inhabitants
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I am the grandson of the Frank Brown mentioned in posts and it now seems my paternal great grandmother was the Ann Turley/Brown/Hauxwell nee Warters who's mentioned in posts. Much to my surprise she can't be the 'Mrs Brown' who I'd thought was my paternal great grandmother as Ann died in 1898 and I have 2 press cuttings of 'Mrs Brown' from the Middlesbrough-based North Eastern Daily Gazette, one from 28 July 1932 and one probably from 1934. In both she is named on a pensioners' outing from Newport area of Middlesbrough and attributed the ages of 87 and 89 respectively so born about 1845. These cuttings were with other family photos hence my assumption that the lady in question was my great grandmother, now she's a mystery.
I did find a lady who could match this (name and d of b) description in the later censues . However, she was b. Co Durham and later lived in Brompton.
It might be that a search for her death could be the only way to find this lady and her possible link to Frank.
Gadget
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neelawson, looks as though when your grandfather married in 1905 it was a double wedding. His sister Mary Ann Brown(1880)married John Hasson, same day and place. Mary Ann Hasson died 1963. Did Frank die 23rd October 1952?
SS
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Well I never, probably to save money I'd have thought. Thanks for that!
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I amended my post after your reply, see my question re Frank
SS
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I amended my post after your reply, see my question re Frank
SS
Yes that's correct info re Frank's death
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I am the grandson of the Frank Brown mentioned in posts and it now seems my paternal great grandmother was the Ann Turley/Brown/Hauxwell nee Warters who's mentioned in posts. Much to my surprise she can't be the 'Mrs Brown' who I'd thought was my paternal great grandmother as Ann died in 1898 and I have 2 press cuttings of 'Mrs Brown' from the Middlesbrough-based North Eastern Daily Gazette, one from 28 July 1932 and one probably from 1934. In both she is named on a pensioners' outing from Newport area of Middlesbrough and attributed the ages of 87 and 89 respectively so born about 1845. These cuttings were with other family photos hence my assumption that the lady in question was my great grandmother, now she's a mystery.
I did find a lady who could match this (name and d of b) description in the later censues . However, she was b. Co Durham and later lived in Brompton.
It might be that a search for her death could be the only way to find this lady and her possible link to Frank.
Gadget
I found 2 x Mrs Brown who died in Middlesbrough and fit the age profile in the press cuttings. Lydia died age 89 (vol 9d page 676 in Q2 1935) born 1846 Teresa age 91 (vol 9d p 884 in Q1 1936) born 1844. They're both in Middlesbrough 1921 census too but I haven't had time to check further back as i'm just about to go on holiday!
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And the Browns
John Brown in 1841
Allerston
Francis Brown, 45, Ag Lab
Elizabeth,45
Charles, 10
Sarah, 9
Ann, 7
mary, 6
John 4
Hannah, 2
Ruth, 1 mth
All b. Yorkshire
Gadget
The death could be right but the marriage (iffy) seems the only one that fits them names
A very long shot of Mrs Brown age 89 1934 Middlesbrough newspaper clipping
Charles Edgar Brown
x x x marriage Sunderland qtr Sept 1907 10a - 1296
Teresa Graldie (Other woman in list Alice Josephine Renwick)
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Its possible Mrs Brown was Miss Teresa Brown (death below 1936 age 91) born 1845 Cheltenham, -a school teacher Kinder garden Middesbrough status single in censuses years
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Teresa Brown death age 91 March qtr 1936 Middlesbrough 9d - 884
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Dobfam ~
That's a big jump - the Charles that you highlighted on the 1841 was aged 10. He would have been over 70 in 1907 !!
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Dobfam ~
That's a big jump - the Charles that you highlighted on the 1841 was aged 10. He would have been over 70 in 1907 !!
You are most likely right.
It did pass my mind Charles age being 76 in 1907 and Mrs Brown being 89 in 1935 - age 61 in 1907 but I'm 73 still think young, ;D :D and talk to many couples on the bus with an age difference 10 to 15 years of age - remarried of similar age differences after losing their married partners to death - more for company. My granddad died age 90 an ex ag lab was an out and about lively chap right up weeks before he died after a sudden heart attack.
Therefore its possible but very unlikely as I think the school teacher was the single lady in the newspaper cuttings wrongly quoted taken for granted as a Mrs not Miss Brown at her age.
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There was another boy of Francis Brown called Nellis Brown (Could have been a girl ? as an after thought & needs checking) by later census years but nothing info wise fitted with him to Mrs Brown 89 years old in 1935. Middlesbrough but another search by another fresh pair of eyes looking may find something. ???
:)