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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: sophiamarina on Saturday 02 September 23 19:40 BST (UK)

Title: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: sophiamarina on Saturday 02 September 23 19:40 BST (UK)
Hello,

I'm a bit stuck working backwards from this one.  I believe he was born on 20/01/1890 (from later naval records), and appears as a 1 year old in the 1891 census:

Hampshire/Portsea/Kingston/District 49
RG12/860

on the fourth row down, below mum and older sister.

Dad is not on the census, and I don't know his name. I also don't have any details about his parents' marriage or the birth of his older sister Ethel.  The census gives his mum's first name as Eliza and a place of birth of Battersea, but I can't find her on any earlier documents.

It's a while since I last looked at this one properly, but I remember various false starts where I found similar couples but then there would always be some inconsistency.  If anyone is willing to lend a fresh pair of eyes to it, I'd be glad of a fresh perspective!

Many thanks.

Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: sophiamarina on Saturday 02 September 23 19:41 BST (UK)
p18 of the census, to add to the references already given.  Let me know if you need more details.
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 September 23 20:04 BST (UK)
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Births Mar 1890 

JORDAN, WILLIAM  THOMAS ARTHUR     mothers maiden name KING     
GRO Reference: 1890  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 526

Possible marriage

Marriages Dec 1886   
Jordan    Edward Alfred        St. Olave    1d   568    
KING    Elizabeth Jane         St Olave    1d   568

Have you looked for the 1901 entry?
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Saturday 02 September 23 20:07 BST (UK)
  Baptised Portsea 5/2/90, born 20/01/90, father William Thomas(?) stoker R.N. The writing is bad in the register, but mother could be Eliza Ruth.
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 September 23 20:38 BST (UK)
Births Mar 1869 
KING Eliza Ruth    Portsea    2b   482

Full 1891 entry

Eliza Jordan 22 wife b Battersea
Ethel B 2 b Battersea
William T A 1 b Portsmouth
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 September 23 20:51 BST (UK)
There is no Jordan/King marriage.  Given Ethel was b Battersea - no birth reg under Jordan or King

Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 02 September 23 21:34 BST (UK)
Just as a side note and question. Came across this entry here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Birthday_Honours

1948 Birthday Honours
Military List
Royal Navy

Engineer Captain William Thomas Arthur Jordan OBE, (Retired).

Is this connected to your searches?

Monica

Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 02 September 23 21:49 BST (UK)
William's death registration in 1976 confirms the date of birth you have for him:

1st Qrt 1976
WILLIAM THOMAS A JORDAN    
20JA1890   
HASTINGS   
Ref 18/1457

A probate entry following his death gives his address as 137 Marina, St Leonards on Sea.

Monica
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: osprey on Saturday 02 September 23 22:02 BST (UK)
baptism to go with the Eliza Ruth King birth in Portsea
St Barnabas
21 August 1879 Eliza Ruth born 14 Dec 1868 daughter of John, baker, & Ann King  Holloway street
also Naomi born 14 Jan 1871 & Elizabeth Ann 28 Dec 1867

1871 census John's place of birth is Battersea RG10/1140 folio 70 pg 20

1881 with a different wife https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q274-FN3D
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: osprey on Saturday 02 September 23 22:30 BST (UK)
marriages
Eliza Ruth King june qtr 1885 Portsea vol 2b pg 776 to either Thomas Adams or Josiah Paul Millett

then a divorce from Josiah Paul Millett in 1889 - reason Eliza's adultery with William Jordan
and remarriage
Eliza Millett march qtr 1890 Portsea vol 2b pg 544 with William Jordan on the same page

but also
Eliza Ruth Millett sept qtr 1894 vol 2b pg 959 to William Martin or Frederick John Cosgrave

birth reg
Ethel Jordan Millett june qtr 1888 Poplar mmn King
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 02 September 23 22:39 BST (UK)
Great finds, osprey  :)

The Eliza King, daughter of John and Ann, is not the right one unfortunately. She shows in her father's household in 1891 in Portsea, already married to a Henry Blower:

John King 52 b. Battersea
Henry Blower 32 son in law
Elizabeth King/Blower 24 daughter
Naomi King 20 daughter

Monica
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 02 September 23 22:56 BST (UK)
From your marriage details, osprey, Eliza looks to have married William Martin. 1901 census for them in Sheppey, Kent:

William Martin 44 b. Shepton Mallet, Somerset
Eliza Martin 30 Wife b. Battersea
Ethel Martin 12 b. Bromley by Bow, London
William T Martin 11 b. Portsmouth
Albert J Martin 5 b. Portsmouth

Added: There is a note on the census transcript that someone has added for youngest Albert:

Albert John Martin, son of Eliza Ruth Martin, of 36 Devonshire Ave, Southsea, Portsmouth, and the late Lieut William Martin (RN). Musician Royal Marine Band (RMB/1741). Killed, aged 21, after HMS Vanguard was destroyed by an internal explosion at Scapa Flow 09/07/1917. Commemorated on Chatham Naval Memorial. Source: CWGC Casaualty Details data base.


Monica
   
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 02 September 23 23:06 BST (UK)
The family in 1911 with one more child, www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW3R-24X

Monica
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 02 September 23 23:24 BST (UK)

The Eliza King, daughter of John and Ann, is not the right one unfortunately. She shows in her father's household in 1891 in Portsea, already married to a Henry Blower:

John King 52 b. Battersea
Henry Blower 32 son in law
Elizabeth King/Blower 24 daughter
Naomi King 20 daughter


Too many Eliza/beths  ::) John and Ann (Hinton) King did have two daughters with those names:

KING, ELIZA  RUTH      HINTON     
GRO Reference: 1869  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 482
KING, ELIZABETH  ANN      HINTON     
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 466

It was Elizabeth Ann who showed in 1891, having married Henry Blower. Elizabeth Ruth's life is clearer now. (Bad me...missed looking at the 1881 link you posted osprey!).

Odd that Eliza Ruth was so specific about being born in Battersea. Her 1911 census entry actually gives York Road in Battersea as her birth place.

Monica
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: sophiamarina on Sunday 03 September 23 12:59 BST (UK)
Wow, thank you, all! Gosh, what a life for young Eliza - such a very young bride and then (looking at newspaper articles about the divorce) immediately left alone for years with husband at sea. Funnily enough, this is the third instance I've come across in family history research (albeit different families) of young naval brides running off with a different sailor! And then a third husband so soon after - I'll have to find out what happened to Mr Jordan in the interim!

Armed with the info you have all kindly given, I will be able to find out more about the families and previous generations. Thank you.

One thing that surprises me is that they could afford a divorce - I would have imagined it might be beyond the reach of people in these kinds of jobs. (Though it seems like the Navy would have been wise to set up a divorce fund, given how often wives ran off!). Am I off base here, or is it indeed unusual? I guess once I learn more about the family, I might find out if there was money somewhere that might have been called in.
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: osprey on Sunday 03 September 23 13:23 BST (UK)
possible birth reg for son Harold

Harold Alfred Martin march qtr 1908 Havant vol 2b pg 382 mmn King

death reg Eliza R Martin 67 march qtr 1936 Portsmouth vol 2b pg 832

parish marriage for sister Elizabeth Ann
St James, Milton, Portsea 2 Feb 1884
Henry Blower 24 bach omnibus driver 6 Bradford Road father Henry Blower fruiterer
Elizabeth Ann King 18 spin 1 Holloway St father John King baker
witnesses William Henry Blake & Elizabeth Blake

parish marriage for Eliza
St James Milton 2 March 1890
William Jordan 34 bach RN HMS Asia father Arthur Jordan dec. pensioner
Eliza Millett 22 spinster 85 Marys? Road father Arthur Millett baker
witnesses Thomas Burnell & Harriett Burnell
Not entirely truthful!

Wonder what happened to William Jordan? There is this census from 1901?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFQ-SXN

 :-\
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 03 September 23 16:31 BST (UK)

parish marriage for Eliza
St James Milton 2 March 1890
William Jordan 34 bach RN HMS Asia father Arthur Jordan dec. pensioner
Eliza Millett 22 spinster 85 Marys? Road father Arthur Millett baker
witnesses Thomas Burnell & Harriett Burnell
Not entirely truthful!

Wonder what happened to William Jordan?

There is this census from 1901?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFQ-SXN

 :-\

William Jordan
Birth Date   27 Nov 1854
Birth Place   Portsmouth, Hants
First Service Date   4 Nov 1879
First Ship Served On   Asia
Last Service Date   31 Mar 1903
Last Ship Served On   D of Welln II
Service Number   110718

Could this be the William from 1901 census on 1911c, noted as female on Anc*y

William Jordan age 58
Address   19 Rudmore Road, Landport, Portsmouth
Marital Status   Widower
Occupation   Naval Pensioner Stoker
Registration District Number   90
Sub-registration district   North End and Buckland
Piece   5479

Possible death entry

William Jordan
Death Age   72
Registration Quarter   Oct-Nov-Dec 1926
Registration district   Portsmouth Hampshire
Volume   2b Page   576




Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: osprey on Sunday 03 September 23 17:07 BST (UK)
that could well be him!

This 1861 entry looks a match to detail of father from marriage entry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWMM-WSW

birth regs
Martha Ann Jordan june qtr 1845 Portsea vol 7 pg 127 mmn Dring
Thomas William Jordan sept qtr 1853 Portsea vol 2b pg 316 mmn Dring - but this doesn't match with a November birth date
marriage reg Arthur Jordan march qtr 1853 Portsea vol 2b pg 550 with Martha Dring on the same page
Title: Re: Parents of William Thomas Arthur Jordan (b. 1890)
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 03 September 23 18:37 BST (UK)

death reg Eliza R Martin 67 march qtr 1936 Portsmouth vol 2b pg 832


For info....

1 February 1936 Portsmouth Evening News

Woman’s Death in Commercial Road
A Fareham Pensioner?

A woman collapsed and died in Commercial Road this morning just after 11 o’clock outside the Midland Bank, almost facing the junction of Edinburgh Road. Her name is believed to be Mrs. Eliza Ruth Martin of Highland Road Fareham, a pensioner.  Police Ambulance was summoned PC Boyland took woman to Royal Portsmouth Hospital where she was seen by Dr Havard who testified that death had taken place.

3 February 1936 Portsmouth Evening News

Fareham

Woman Identified - The identity of the woman who collapsed and died in Commercial Road on Saturday Morning has been established.  She was Mrs. Eliza Ruth Martin living at 29 Highland Road, Fareham. She used to live there alone.