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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 12:45 BST (UK)

Title: Tamar Grieves
Post by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 12:45 BST (UK)
Hello folks

Been a while since I did any genealogy but I'm back at it. 

I have a Tamar Grieves b 1808 Middleton in Teesdale.  She married Martin Bell b. 1806 Barnard Castle.  Marriage date 7 May 1834 St Marys, Barnard Castle.

Tamar had an illigitimate dau Mary Grieves b.1830 Durham.

I amtrying to find Tamar Grieves family but keep hitting a brick wall.  I know the Bell's lived in Romaldkirk/Barnard Castle area. 

I have found a Tamar Coatesworth b.1808 in Stanley plus all her relatives.  The name Tamer was handed down the generations.  Ive no proof this Tamar is mine though.  Although I found her family around Middleton in Teesdale area also.

Any help would be most appreciated.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: emeltom on Thursday 24 August 23 13:49 BST (UK)
I can find only one Tamar Grieves/Greeves baptised in Middleton in Teesdale and that was 26 October 1817, the daughter of John and Esther. However just because she was baptised 1817 that does not mean that it was also her year of birth.
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 24 August 23 13:59 BST (UK)
Only one I can see.

Tamer GRIEVES, bapt   26 Oct 1817, St Mary the Virgin, Middleton in Teesdale, Durham
Parents JOHN/ESTHER
Father a Miner


But her Parents married 07 Dec 1816 so looks like not her.

I was hoping a possible late bapt ::)
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 14:12 BST (UK)
Hi Emelton and Trish

Thank you for looking.  Ive struggled with Tamar Grieves for a while!!  May i ask you both which sites did you use to find your info please?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 24 August 23 14:42 BST (UK)
Re the 1817 baptism that seems to be the wrong lady
1841 census
Tamar / Tamer, age 23, with mum Ester in MIddleton in Teesdale
Transcribed as James on ancestry! Though she is female
Surname transcribed Grewer, Gruver.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQBX-8DP

Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 24 August 23 14:43 BST (UK)
GRO Death Registration -
Grieves, Jamer, Sep Qtr 1841, Teesdale Union, 24 208 - age 24

FindMyPast has transcribed as  Tamar Grieves
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 24 August 23 15:04 BST (UK)
Robert and Mary Grieve / Grieves (and other variant spellings) were having children baptized in Middleton at the time. Mary nee Hunt.
Daughter Jane born April 1808 and baptized in Middleton in June 1808 (Greives)
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: emeltom on Thursday 24 August 23 15:09 BST (UK)
I used FreeReg and Durham Records on Line.
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 15:17 BST (UK)
Tamer is shown in every census with husband Martin Bell up to 1861 (her name was mis-spelt as James) she is then on 1871 census with her daughter,husband and family the Thompsons and was on 1881 census.  Altho i have found a death in 1881 for her.  1871 census she was called Tanner Bell. Im just not certain she was actually a 'Grieves' as when i found Tamar Coatsworth some names and places seemed to fit into place.  I just need proof. 
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 15:33 BST (UK)
 :I dont have proof of Tamer and Martins marriage either.  I think my Uncle found it but ive looked and not seen a marriage for them!
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: emeltom on Thursday 24 August 23 15:36 BST (UK)
The 1851 Census shows Tamar and Martin Bell with four children Robert, William, Hannah and John. The GRO Index has references for William, Hannah and John and they all have mmn Grieves.

Tamar Grieves married Martin Bell 7 May 1834 in Barnard Castle, Durham. An image of the original Register entry is on FindMyPast
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 15:38 BST (UK)
Thank you Emeltom.  I dont have an account with FindMyPast only Ancestry.
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: Millmoor on Thursday 24 August 23 15:40 BST (UK)
Have a look at the groindex for the births of Tamar's children William, Hannah and John in Teesdale RD. This would appear to confirm a mother's maiden name of Grieve or Grieves. ( Typing this while emeltom posted the same).

Another useful resource for church records for Middleton in Teesdale are the transcriptions found in Genuki.

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DUR/MiddletoninTeesdale#ChurchRecords

William
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 15:43 BST (UK)
Ah thats useful info!  Thank you William I will take a look. 

Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 24 August 23 16:03 BST (UK)
Tamar Grieves married Martin Bell 7 May 1834 in Barnard Castle, Durham.

Don't findmypast link to the BT's on FamilySearch?
Witnesses Robert Trewhitt and Mary Dalston
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-63LF-9V
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 24 August 23 16:10 BST (UK)
Tamar Grieves married Martin Bell 7 May 1834 in Barnard Castle, Durham.

Don't findmypast link to the BT's on FamilySearch?
Witnesses Robert Trewhitt and Mary Dalston
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-63LF-9V

Yes they do, they both cut bits off the images  :)
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 24 August 23 16:12 BST (UK)
Rosie, the Barnard Castle BTs are very annoying!
However, we have

Baptism at Barnard Castle, 26 July 1829
Mary
Illegitimate Daughter of Tamer Grieves
Abode Barnard Castle Moor
(mother) Single Woman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-66YQ-MKG
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 24 August 23 16:23 BST (UK)
Back on 1st March 1829, Margaret Grieves, single woman, also had a daughter Mary baptized at Barnard Castle
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-66Y3-BRY

Mary could be the Mary Grieves buried there, 28 March 1829, age 2 months
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: beaglelady on Thursday 24 August 23 16:27 BST (UK)
Well im still none the wiser about Tamar's parents.  Ive been searching and found what everyone else has posted on here! 
Thank you for looking for me.  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 24 August 23 18:15 BST (UK)
Well im still none the wiser about Tamar's parents.

Nor are we. She had an illegitimate daughter, perhaps she was illegitimate herself.
It is a bit of a coincidence there being another Tamar Grieves born in Middleton. Her father John may have been a son of Robert and Mary. Possibly their daughter Margaret was the mother of the other Mary baptized at Barnard Castle in 1829.
I would go through that family with a fine tooth comb.
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 25 August 23 13:38 BST (UK)
To answer you question I used FreeREG.

The Margaret Grieves mentioned earlier married John GRAHAM 29 Jan 1831, St Mary the Virgin.
(FreeREG)

This is them 1841 in Middleton;
John Grahn 40 Joiner
Margret Grahn 31
Jane Grahn 9
Thomas Grahn 7
Hannah Grahn 5
Mary Grahn 3
Robert Grahn 1

I couldnt see them in England after that and appear to be in the US by 1860 in Wisconsin;

John Graham   59 Farmer
Margaret Graham 50
Thomas Graham 26
Hannah Graham   23
Robert Graham   20
Isabella Graham   17
Eliza Graham   10
John T Graham   6
(F/S.Org)
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 25 August 23 18:17 BST (UK)
Robert and Mary Grieve / Grieves (and other variant spellings) were having children baptized in Middleton at the time. Mary nee Hunt.

The marriage of Robert Grieve and Mary Hunt was at Middleton in Teesdale, 19 Dec 1790

Another Tamar/Tamer baptized at Middleton.
Tamer Hunt, 10 Oct 1803. Born 9 September 1803
Parents John and Nancy (nee Robson)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LDQ-CMX

Could John Hunt and Mary Hunt/Grieves have been siblings?
There is a burial at Middleton, 25 July 1822
Tamer Hunt
Wife of Richard?
Age 81
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LDQ-ZVQ

So could Richard and Tamar be the parents of John and Mary?
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 25 August 23 18:21 BST (UK)
I would go through that family with a fine tooth comb.

Well I'm having a go!
There are ten baptisms indexed to Robert and Mary Grieve/Grieves after the 1790 marriage
John, 1791
Robert, 1793
Betty, 1795
William, 1797
Joseph, 1800
Nancy, 1802
Sally, 1804
Jane, 1808
Margaret, 1810
Hannah, 1812

No Richard, and no Tamar!
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 25 August 23 18:40 BST (UK)
BUT
Baptism of Nancy Grieve at Middleton, 28 March 1802
To me it looks like it says 2nd Son (of Robert and Mary)  ???
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LDQ-C8H

But maybe it's just me! Anyway, I think Nancy was the 2nd daughter (Betty being the first)

Baptism of Sally Grieve, 19 Feb 1804
3rd Daugr. of Robert & Mary (other info on the record, both natives of the parish)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LDQ-CQM

4 years later
Baptism of Jane Grieves, 8 June 1808
5th Daughter
2nd bottom, right side page
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LDQ-H4S

Margaret Grieve, 27 May 1810
10th Child (but only the ninth on the list!)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LDQ-HWM

Hannah Grieves, 12 Dec 1812
7 Daughter
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LDQ-HHV
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 25 August 23 18:44 BST (UK)
So in that four year gap between the baptism of Sally in 1804 and Jane in 1808 (in other words, circa 1806)...we are missing daughter number 4!

Unless there was a burial of an infant, but there doesn't appear to be one in Middleton.

Could the mysterious Tamar be the missing daughter of Robert and Mary Grieves?

ADDED The Middleton BTs for 1805, 1806, 1807, are there on FS
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 26 August 23 11:30 BST (UK)
Yes I agree 4th Daug is likely Tamar :)
Title: Re: Tamar Grieves
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 26 August 23 13:31 BST (UK)
Hopefully, Trish!
It would seem to make sense.
Perhaps she didn't get baptized for some reason. Very annoying!
Jon