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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: HockeyMum1975 on Sunday 20 August 23 22:09 BST (UK)
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So, I've been looking in to my dads family tree, I found who I believe to be his sister going to Australia for 6 years from 1940-1946. while there she stayed with someone called Mrs E J Neville in Melbourne.
At first I thought it was just a random person but later inspection of passenger lists leads me to believe that it was her maternal grandmother. I have not managed to find out when she initially went to Australia or even when/if she married. I have a record of her as a passenger coming to England in 1949 and returning in 1950 to Australia, each time staying with her daughter (I know this to be correct as the address is that of my dads when he was born). Each time I have found a record she is travelling alone. Her name when she went to Australia would have Elizabeth Jane Stratford, born 1885 in Southampton.
Is it possible she even married or just for some reason used Mrs E J Neville? Where would I be able to find a record? I have tried Find My Past, Ancestry and Family Search. Also, is there a way to find naturalization records to see if she maybe naturalized before getting married.
Thank you for reading
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When is the last time you have her as Stratford? And where?
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Last time I can actually find her as a Stratford is the 1911 census in London, at that point she is separated from her husband and has left her child in Southampton with his parents. I have even looked in London for a marriage but no luck, or I'm probably looking in the wrong place
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Is this her death? Doesn’t look very hopeful/helpful but you can pay and have instant download
NEVILLE
Elizabeth Jane
Death
<Unknown Family Name>, Unknown
UNKNOWN
<Unknown Family Name>, UNKNOWN
Kew
<Unknown Family Name>
77
1962
9314/1962
https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/efamily-history/64e2844543563b2653481563/results?q=efamily
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I believe that to be her death record, I may have to buy it. For all I know she may well have been married another time between Stratford and Neville. She's definitely a mystery
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There would be no need for naturalisation as citizens of
England United Kingdom are considered citizens of Australia.
Sue
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What was Elizabeth Jane’s maiden name?. Spencer
You don’t have her in 1921?
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I am wondering if this is Elizabeth, found it on Find my Past
Elizabeth Jane Neville
BIRTH unknown DEATH 20 Mar 1962
BURIAL Springvale Botanical Cemetery Springvale, Greater Dandenong City, Victoria, Australia
PLOT Church of England, Compartment M, Section 8, Grave 25
Also this is on Ancestry
Name Elizabeth Jane Neville
Death Age 77 Birth Date abt 1885 Death Date Abt 1962 Death Place Kew, Victoria
Registration Date 1962 Registration Place Australia Registration Number 9314
Cass
Just noticed on FAG this entry for fellow in Same grave
Joseph Neville BIRTH unknown DEATH 26 Jul 1928
BURIAL Springvale Botanical Cemetery Springvale, Greater Dandenong City, Victoria, Australia
PLOT Church of England, Compartment M, Section 8, Grave 25
And
Peggy Neville BIRTH unknown DEATH 4 Feb 1915
BURIAL Springvale Botanical Cemetery
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At Springvale interred as above from Cass
A marriage. She becomes Peggy Neville?
TOLAN Peggy
NEVILLE, Joseph
1913
10987/1913
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UK Marriage Dec 1/4 1880
NEVILLE George
WALKER Lucy
Amersham 3a/703
Victorian Death matching Springvale details.
NEVILLE Joseph
WALKER Lucy
NEVILLE George
FITZROY
38
1928
Reg 10050
Sue
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Is this his death notice? Known as George? I don’t see a George registration.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/205469566?searchTerm=Joseph%20neville
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Perhaps just known as George, as you suggest.
The lass whom I suspect was Joseph's first wife, Peggy, may have had the surname POLAN not TOLAN.
There is this birth
Margt Ctine POLAN
1896/18452
At Cashel, Victoria
Father Jas Albt Polan
Mother Isabella Margt COLWELL
Peggy being a diminutive of Margaret.
Guessing really ;D
Sue
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I cannot see that Joseph has a WW1 file. But I thought that might be how they met.
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Search of
National Archives Australia Passenger lists into Fremantle EDIT Ancestry Passenger
lists shows
1911 from London
NEVILLE Joseph
A carman.
In Vctoria from round 1917, a George NEVILLE is a bread carter living with Elizabeth (Home Duties) at 80 Rochester Road Kew.
Joseph is not showing on UK census 1911 with the others of his family in Amersham.
Longshot really ::)
Sue
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This is the info I have:
Born Elizabeth Jane Spencer 21st April 1885 in Southampton(I have her bc)
1901: 16 yrs old in Southampton
1907 married Henry Edward Stratford in Southampton
1908: daughter Mabel Beatrice is born (Mabel goes by the name May later in life)
1911: servant in household, Oxford St, St Marylebone (listed as married 4 yrs 1 child). Henry is not with her, he is still in Southampton as is Mabel
1940: her name appears as E J Neville as a place for my aunt to stay during ww2.
Dec 1949: she is on a passenger list as Mrs E J Neville leaving Melbourne, Australia for England (staying at my dad's address)
March 1950: returning to Melbourne, Australia
1962: her believed death record in Melbourne, Australia
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Hi,
So have you read the replies here to your query?
Sue
ADDING FYI, This is the information you may find on a Victorian Death Certificate.
Depending on the knowledge of the informant.
Name
Date
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents' names
Spouse names
Marriage details
Chns names
No of chn
Birthplace
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Perhaps just known as George, as you suggest.
The lass whom I suspect was Joseph's first wife, Peggy, may have had the surname POLAN not TOLAN.
There is this birth
Margt Ctine POLAN
1896/18452
At Cashel, Victoria
Father Jas Albt Polan
Mother Isabella Margt COLWELL
Peggy being a diminutive of Margaret.
Guessing really ;D
Sue
a very good guess ...lol
town of Cashel,Victoria given as birth place
https://en.geneanet.org/cercles/view/colgnecmbirthsausvic/1203687
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I am wondering if this is Elizabeth, found it on Find my Past
Elizabeth Jane Neville
BIRTH unknown DEATH 20 Mar 1962
BURIAL Springvale Botanical Cemetery Springvale, Greater Dandenong City, Victoria, Australia
PLOT Church of England, Compartment M, Section 8, Grave 25
Also this is on Ancestry
Name Elizabeth Jane Neville
Death Age 77 Birth Date abt 1885 Death Date Abt 1962 Death Place Kew, Victoria
Registration Date 1962 Registration Place Australia Registration Number 9314
Cass
Just noticed on FAG this entry for fellow in Same grave
Joseph Neville BIRTH unknown DEATH 26 Jul 1928
BURIAL Springvale Botanical Cemetery Springvale, Greater Dandenong City, Victoria, Australia
PLOT Church of England, Compartment M, Section 8, Grave 25
And
Peggy Neville BIRTH unknown DEATH 4 Feb 1915
BURIAL Springvale Botanical Cemetery
I will definitely have to.look in to this further, as I'm unsure when she left for Australia, it is a possibility she married and had another child
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INQUEST:
Name: Elizabeth Jane NEVILLE
Cause of death: Senility and Bronchopneumonia
Date of Inquest: 13 April 1962
Place of Inquest: Melbourne Victoria
Ref#: 1962/1077
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Hi Hockey mum,
I am not sure where the idea of another child has come into your thinking.
Reply #8
A careful read of the information given to date may clarify things,
Sue
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TROVE has these death notices for George Neville and Maggie Neville (buried in the same grave as Elizabeth)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3948683
NEVILLE.—On the 24th July, 1928, at St. Vincent's Hospital, George, the beloved husband of Elizabeth Neville, aged 38 years. (Remains at John Allison's parlours, 91 Victoria street, Richmond.)
NEVILLE.—On the 24th July, at St. Vincent's Hospital, George, the loving husband of Elizabeth Neville, aged 38 years.
Funeral Notice on same page:
NEVILLE.—The Friends of the late Mr. GEORGE NEVILLE are respectfully informed that his remains will be interred in the Necropolis, Springvale Cemetery.
The funeral will leave John Allison's parlours 91 Victoria Street, Richmond, THIS AFTERNOON (Thursday, 26th July, 192b) thence by mortuary train leaving at 1.30 o'clock.
JOHN ALLISON, Undertaker.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154934558
Notice, 6 February 1915
NEVILLE (nee Maggie Tolan).—On the 2nd February (suddenly), at the Women's Hospital, Maggie, wife of George Neville, Hawthorn, native of Londonderry, Ireland. Deeply regretted by the employees of Welch, Margetson Pty. Ltd., Swanston-street. North of Ireland papers please copy.
Judith
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TROVE has these death notices for George Neville and Maggie Neville (buried in the same grave as Elizabeth)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3948683
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154934558
Notice, 6 February 1915
NEVILLE (nee Maggie Tolan).—On the 2nd February (suddenly), at the Women's Hospital, Maggie, wife of George Neville, Hawthorn, native of Londonderry, Ireland. Deeply regretted by the employees of Welch, Margetson Pty. Ltd., Swanston-street. North of Ireland papers please copy.
Judith
That's terrific Judith.
There is a lot of confusion about names ::)
He is both Joseph and George.
She is Maggie, and Peggy and I was on the wrong track in suggesting she was Margeret Polan when the Death Notice gives a clear identity as TOLAN.
Sue
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It's possible that Elizabeth and George never actually married, as Elizabeth still had a husband in England.
Perhaps you need to look for a divorce. Did her first husband remarry?
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Sorry for the delay in reply, family holiday got in the way!!
I have found a record of Elizabeth's first husband remarrying in 1927 in Erith Kent (if I remember correctly!).
Thank you all for your digging around, I am beginning to think that there is 2 possible options here:
1 is that she married someone else before becoming a Neville. But who knows who she may have married!
2: she just took Neville as her surname for whatever reason (I know her daughter Mabel did this in 1957 but when she died she was buried as Williams which was her married name).
With regards to the possibility of another....anything is possible!
Now, to try and find her on a passenger list going to Australia in the first place
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Passenger Arrivals Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA.
Elizabeth SPENCER
Age: 28
Occ: Domestic
Nat: British
Date of Arrival: April 1913
Ship name: MARATHON
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/49D9B838-F96C-11E9-AE98-BF8287A6A757?image=296
Mrs Elizabeth STRATFORD
Age: 27
Nat: British
Date of arrival: 31 March 1913
Ship name: INDARRA
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/3D097892-FA02-11E9-AE98-33031B41B122?image=33