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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Big Dave R on Saturday 19 August 23 11:27 BST (UK)

Title: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: Big Dave R on Saturday 19 August 23 11:27 BST (UK)
One of my ancestors (Alfred Benton b Horncastle 1839) is recorded on 1861 census at the White Horse, North Street, St Pancras.  He's one of 10 people there who's occupation is coachmaker.  Is that because of it's proximity to St Pancras station I'm wondering.  I can't work out how they're describing relationship to head, it looks like "tramp" to me, but unless that word had a different connotation then doesn't seem right.  Can anyone enlighten me please?
RG9/101/33 p59
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 19 August 23 11:44 BST (UK)
Alfred is a coachmaker - the first occupant relationship listed after the head of household is shown as Tramp & all others have been dittoed - all were coachmakers
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: Big Dave R on Saturday 19 August 23 11:47 BST (UK)
It's not the occupation, it's relationship to head I'm curious about.  Would expect to see "lodger" or similar but definitely doesn't say that .
(I'm looking at image not transcript)
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: JenB on Saturday 19 August 23 11:47 BST (UK)
Alfred is a coachmaker - none of the occupations of others on the image are “tramp”.  Looks like another Ancestry error

But all the coachmakers are entered as 'Tramp' in the relationship column.
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 19 August 23 11:47 BST (UK)
Had just amended my reply - see above
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 19 August 23 11:50 BST (UK)
Initially, the term "tramp" had a broad meaning, and was often used to refer to migrant workers who were looking for permanent work and lodgings.

I think this is probably the context in that census.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: mazi on Saturday 19 August 23 11:55 BST (UK)
St Pancras station was not there in 1861, although the railway started purchasing land for it’s construction in 1861.

The nearby kings cross was open, early railway carriages then were basically Coaches on railway wheels.

Mike
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 19 August 23 11:58 BST (UK)
Initially, the term "tramp" had a broad meaning, and was often used to refer to migrant workers who were looking for permanent work and lodgings.

I think this is probably the context in that census.

Debra  :)

I was just going to write something similar - there is a newspaper item in 1861 which mentions a person described as "a coachman on tramp" (giving the alarm at a fire in different public house - in Reading). In fact, quite a few references now that I look for them, over the years.
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: Big Dave R on Saturday 19 August 23 12:02 BST (UK)
Initially, the term "tramp" had a broad meaning, and was often used to refer to migrant workers who were looking for permanent work and lodgings.

I think this is probably the context in that census.

Debra  :)

Thanks, at least takes the image of Charlie Chaplin out of my head !
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: Big Dave R on Saturday 19 August 23 12:03 BST (UK)
St Pancras station was not there in 1861, although the railway started purchasing land for it’s construction in 1861.

The nearby kings cross was open, early railway carriages then were basically Coaches on railway wheels.

Mike

Thanks.  I think it's interesting how they gathered a group of coachmakers from all over the country, not like they could post an advert on social media!
Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: JenB on Saturday 19 August 23 12:07 BST (UK)
I was just going to write something similar - there is a newspaper item in 1861 which mentions a person described as "a coachman on tramp" (giving the alarm at a fire in different public house - in Reading). In fact, quite a few references now that I look for them, over the years.

Worcester Chronicle September 1851
'Victims of the railway'

Title: Re: White Horse St Pancras 1861 Census
Post by: mazi on Saturday 19 August 23 13:53 BST (UK)
St Pancras station was not there in 1861, although the railway started purchasing land for it’s construction in 1861.

The nearby kings cross was open, early railway carriages then were basically Coaches on railway wheels.

Mike




Thanks.  I think it's interesting how they gathered a group of coachmakers from all over the country, not like they could post an advert on social media!


By 1861 the railways had decimated the horse drawn carriage and cart business, London was full of unemployed workers from that industry, it did not do my blacksmith ancestors any good either  :)

Mike