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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: DNichol on Thursday 17 August 23 22:56 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out someone I’m having real trouble with placing.
I have a Susannah Barthorpe who married a George Hiles in July 1876 in East Retford. Ancestry is directing me towards her parents being George Barthorpe and Hannah Cobb but something just doesn’t ring right. I can find census records for Susannah after her marriage to George, in 1881 listed as born in Treswell, but I can not find her in the Census’ for the Barthorpe/Cobb family previously. I can’t find her in any previous census. I don’t understand how she is a part of that family. I think I must be missing something fairly obvious as many people have her listed in that family.
I can see a birth record for a Susannah Barthorpe being born in East Retford for 1852, if that is the correct person. But then nothing on the 61 or 71 census.
I also have questions about her daughter Lucy Bacon Hiles, she was born the same month as Susannah and George were married, couple with Bacon as a middle name makes me think George might not be the father. But I suppose that’s a question for another day, and maybe could be answered by finding some certain facts on her mother Susannah.
Any help would be appreciated
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What is the name of Susannah's father on the marriage certificate?
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birth registration
BARTHORPE, SUSANNAH Mother: COBB
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in EAST RETFORD UNION Volume 07B Page 11
1861 census in Treswell (post amended)
Possibly that is Susannah under the name “Hannah”
- with her parents George and Hannah
The Hannah in 1871 is a different daughter (b. 1861)
Susannah is not with her family in 1871 - she is working as a servant in nearby Askham.
You need to get her father's name and occupation from the marriage certificate.
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birth registration
BARTHORPE, SUSANNAH Mother: COBB
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in EAST RETFORD UNION Volume 07B Page 11
1861 and 1871 census in Treswell
Possibly that is Susannah under the name “Hannah”
- with her parents George and Hannah (her age in 1871 his not quite right)
You need to get her father's name and occupation from the marriage certificate.
I thought this also, but Hannah is still living with her parents in 1881, Susannah is married to George Hiles and is listed with him in 1881. I’ll have to see about getting a copy of their marriage certificate
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You need to get her father's name and occupation from the marriage certificate.
As well as her father's name and occupation, you should get an address and names of witnesses which can help you.
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I thought this also, but Hannah is still living with her parents in 1881,
[I have amended my post reply #2]
They do have a daughter named Hannah born in 1861.
I suspect what may be causing the confusion is that Susannah (b. 1853) is called Hannah on the 1861 census, but then in 1861 a daughter named Hannah was born, and she appears with that name on the following census returns.
However, I still would seek out the marriage record to confirm all details.
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I think this is possibly your Susannah Barthorpe in 1871 census (Hannah BARTRUP)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBX4-YPJ
If you are looking on Ancestry, she is recorded as Hannah BARTRUF, born 1853 Tresswell, female servant.
When George and Hannah Cobb married in 1840 - his surname is BARTROP. So be aware of the different possible spellings.
George also appears with the surname "Bartrop" on a prison record in 1835.
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I also have questions about her daughter Lucy Bacon Hiles, she was born the same month as Susannah and George were married, couple with Bacon as a middle name makes me think George might not be the father.
This is the birth registration for Lucy. (Note - This surname also has various spellings)
ILES, LUCY mother: BARTHORPE
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in EAST RETFORD Volume 07B Page 8
The name "Bacon" comes through the Hiles family line.
George Hiles (born 1850) - looks like his mother's maiden name was Bacon.
His birth rego is easy to find in the GRO index.
Isn't that nice and helpful, when surnames are used as second names in later generations. :)
Jane Bacon Marriage by licence to William ILES
7 Feb 1836 West Burton (St Helen)
Both bride and groom made their mark X
Witnesses – David Baines and Lucy Bacon
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This will save you some money :)
Marriage;
06 Aug 1876, St Peter and St Paul, Sturton le Steeple
George HILES, 27, Bachelor, Labourer, abode Sturton le Steeple, Father WILLIAM a Labourer
Susannah BARTHORPE, 24, Spinster, abode Treswell, Father GEORGE a Labourer
Witnesses Frank HANCOCK/George EYRE
(FreeREG)
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Also on FreeREG you will find;
George Hiles bapt 1850
His Mothers remarriage 02 May 1859, Jane HILES, Widow, Father RICHARD Bacon a Cottager
In case you cant find it this is the Hiles in 1841;
William Hiley 25
Jane Hiley 25
Sarah Hiley 1*
James Johnson 40
*1851 census is born c 1840 Sheffield, Yorkshire
GRO Birth Reg;
HILES, SARAH ANN mothers maiden name BACON**
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 22 Page 529
Trish :)
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Marriage;
25 May 1840, St John the Baptist, Treswell
George BARTROP, Full Age, Bachelor, Labourer, Father WILLIAM a Labourer
Hannah COBB, 18, Servant, Father JOHN a Labourer
Bapts of children;
JOSEPH 27 Jun 1841 Everton
GEORGE 04 Feb 1845 Treswell
SARAH 04 Jul 1847 Treswell
ELIZABETH 19 May 1850 Treswell
THOMAS 19 Dec 1852 Treswell (must have died)***
THOMAS COBB 23 Sep 1855 Treswell
EMMA and HANNAH 29 Sep 1861 Tresswell
GEORGE 23 May 1864 Tresswell
Cant see a bapt for Susannah but birth reg has her Mothers mn as Cobb
Emma/Hannah were bapt together but born different years.
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www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=XAUTO%2FFHS%2FNOTTINGHAMSHIRE%2FBAP%2F00085582
You can view this transcription with a free account
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Is that a bapt for Susannah, Comberton?
Even with a free account I try to limit sites that have my email address.
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A lot of info for you to go through Dale :)
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Baptism (transcription only)
Susanna Barthorpe
19th December 1852 Treswell St John The Baptist
George and Hannah
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Thanks Comberton.
Maybe FreeREG has transcribed incorrectly and Thomas on there 1852 should be Susanna :)
Aaah just noticed it has persons sex? on there.
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His Mothers remarriage 02 May 1859, Jane HILES, Widow, Father RICHARD Bacon a Cottager
Actually, it says the father is Thomas Bacon, cottager.
Jane BACON baptism 9 Sept 1810 Dunham on Trent (St Oswald)
Parents – Thomas Bacon and Ann (nee Holland) married 1804 Ragnall.
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Thanks for all you help guys. It’s helped confirm everything for me, and even set me down a new path of research with Bacons and Hollands. For some reason I had Jane Dawson down as George Hiles mother (along with pretty much all of Ancestry) Now it all makes much more sense.
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For some reason I had Jane Dawson down as George Hiles mother (along with pretty much all of Ancestry) Now it all makes much more sense.
Your correct tree will stand out in the crowd. See how long it takes others to follow your lead. :)
Good luck with your research. :)
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quote;
Actually, it says the father is Thomas Bacon, cottager.
My mistake but I am sure DNichol would have checked it on FreeREG
Good luck with it all DNichol and I am happy you are on the right path now :)