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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: baytree1970 on Tuesday 15 August 23 13:55 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to identify the parents of George Baker, born c.1846, died 2 May 1944 in Ararat, Victoria, Australia, age 98. He married Mary Iles in 1874 in Victoria, Aus. George and Mary are buried together at Elmhurst & District General Cemetery, Victoria, Aus.
Lot's of people have this couple in their tree, and almost universally George is said to be the son of Job Baker and his wife, Eliza Halliday.
Job and Eliza lived in Adelaide and their family is quite well-documented. They did have a son George, born in 1846, but there is a corresponding death record for George the next year - he died as an infant. I cannot find any documentary evidence to suggest that Job and Eliza were the parents of George Baker who married Mary Iles.
I don't know much about Australian genealogy. Is there likely to be a marriage cert or death cert for George which provides names of his parents? Or any other document? All I can see on Ancestry are references to The Australia marriage and death index, but the original documents are unavailable.
Any help tracing George's parents would be much appreciated.
:)
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Hi, the marriage certificate if filled out correctly should state his parents names.
The certificate can be order online for $22 and can be downloaded.
https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/efamily-history/64db1b9fa6a898256333080a
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On the off chance your not aware Trove newspapers are also a great source to search.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/advanced/category/newspapers
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Thanks, Aussie records all totally new to me so appreciate the tips
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George's death index
BAKER George
Parents - unknown
Place of birth ADELAIDE NORTH SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Place of death ARARAT
aged 98
1944
17661/1944
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thanks for this
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are these indexes transcribed from original docs? there isn't any 'user contributed' component is there?
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The historical BMD records that you will receive from Victoria are digitised from the original registers so you can see the signatures etc. They are some of the most useful documents for family history. Marriage certificates are particularly helpful as the information is given by the participants (assuming they tell the truth, and assuming they know the information).
Well worth buying.
Judith
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South Australia Geneology shows two births for children named George with Father Job BAKER.
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-database-search
BAKER George M Job BAKER Adelaide 1/192 1846
BAKER George M Job BAKER Adelaide 1/30 1843
Also, as you say, there's the death of a George BAKER shown on this index in 1846, but the index doesn't show any details. I am not familiar with South Australian records - the data base says you can join but I don't know if how helpful it is.
It wasn't uncommon for a newborn to be named after a recently deceased sibling so possibly the death relates to the child born 1843 (or have nothing to do with him!) One of the Ancestry trees shows the two Georges with the death of the older one listed.
Judith
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giblet has given you a link to Trove digitised newspapers. If you search 'baker' plus 'elmhurst' you will find a number of references to George BAKER and to other members of the family, and I am making the assumption that it could be your chap.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/224489448
This one from The Weekly Times Sat 3 Mar 1928 (The Weekly Times was a paper focussing on farming and the land) is about apple growing and includes a photo of worker on Mr Baker's orchard - perhaps the person pictured is actually George.
Judith
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Thanks everyone.
I saw a record on either Ancestry or Family Search giving the death of George, age 6/12, father Job in 1847. So it looks like this is the second son named George who died in infancy.
I'm intrigued that the death index entry for George in 1944 states he was born in Adelaide. That makes the connection to Job a lot more probable in my mind.
I'll have to decide whether it's worth paying for the marriage record. Genealogy is an expensive business, $20 here and there really starts to add up!
Thanks again for everyone's input on this.
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giblet has given you a link to Trove digitised newspapers. If you search 'baker' plus 'elmhurst' you will find a number of references to George BAKER and to other members of the family, and I am making the assumption that it could be your chap.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/224489448
This one from The Weekly Times Sat 3 Mar 1928 (The Weekly Times was a paper focussing on farming and the land) is about apple growing and includes a photo of worker on Mr Baker's orchard - perhaps the person pictured is actually George.
Judith
Thanks, that's a great find. From the date of the article I'd say this is George's son, George jnr. b.1875. Sounds very likely to be the right family though. Thanks!
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There is a George Baker born 27 Aug 1859 near Mitcham, SA to Job Baker and Eliza Holliday.
Book 15 Page 177
Source: Digger SA Births 1842-1906
Dale
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Thanks. I think that George would have been too young to marry in 1874, but appreciate yr response
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Just looked at the death index and that George died in 1860.
Dale
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You won't get much information off George's death certificate #17661/1944 as he most likely passed away an inmate of Aradale Mental Asylum, where very elderly folks with 'senile decay' were sent for care.
https://www.aradale.com.au/
I checked on prov.vic.gov.au and there's no inquest record for George
https://prov.vic.gov.au/
Your best source of information regarding George's parents will be the marriage certificate which isn't all that helpful.
13 April 1874 at "The Manse" Avoca, in the rites of the Presbyterian Church
George Baker, 26, of Amphitheatre , labourer
Father: John BAKER; mother unknown.
Born: Adelaide, South Australia
to
Mary Iles, 16, of Amphiteatre
Father John ILES; mother Ellen WHITE (who was one of the witnesses)
MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE IS ATTACHED
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This is not of direct help, but might be of interest.
When Eliza BAKER nee Halliday died in 1897 there was a lengthy newspaper obituary. Have you already seen it?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/54510483?searchTerm=%22mrs%20eliza%20baker%22
Stated within it,
There were 15 children. Surviving are four sons.
The item does not name them, but a hunt about reveals...
Frederick Edwin died in 1905, so that's one.
Anthony Haliday died in 1903, so that's two.
Finding the deaths of any others of Job and Eliza's sons after 1897 may open or close a space for George to fit as a surviving son. You would need to search newspapers and BMD indexes
However, the marriage certificate is the best bet. ;D
Sue
Adding.
Column headings Vic Marr Cert-
Couple's names
Couple's ages
Couple's birthplaces
Previous status
Couple's occupations
Couple's residences
Fathers' names
Fathers' occupations
Groom's mothers name
Bride's mothers name
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this tree states George Baker b 1845 - died
George Baker b 1847 - died 1944
not all trees are correct was George 97 when he died ??
Job Baker
Born about 1820 - Upleadon, Gloucestershire, England
Deceased January 17, 1888 - Lower Mitcham, South Australia, Australia, aged about 68 years old
Spouses and children
With Eliza Halliday 1818-1897 with
M George Baker 1845-
M George Baker 1847-1944
.....................................................................
https://gw.geneanet.org/mariehodgkinson?lang=en&pz=marie+jean&nz=pitkin&p=job&n=baker
.......................................
https://gw.geneanet.org/mariehodgkinson?lang=en&pz=marie+jean&nz=pitkin&p=george&n=baker
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this tree states George Baker b 1845 - died
George Baker b 1847 - died 1944
not all trees are correct was George 97 when he died ??
Yes. -/+ This is seen in Reply #4
Sue
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Thank you all for your input - it's great to be able to collaborate on this.
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The Eliza Baker (Halliday) obit is interesting - firstly she dies in 1897, 23 years after George Baker married Mary Iles, so this isn't a case where the son never knew his mother because she died when the son was very young. And yet on George's marriage cert. to Mary Iles it says mother unknown. I also don't get the impression that this is a family where young children were sent away or otherwise alienated from their parents - from the obit, it sounds like the family were close. So again, I feel like George would have known Eliza if he were her son. It's a lot to read into an obit, I know... but you gotta work with what you've got!
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On the marriage cert. to Mary Iles it gives father's name as John Baker. I know sometimes difficult handwriting can introduce uncertainty when it comes to reading names, but this seems unambiguous to me.
Searching for a suitable John Baker, I found one record of a marriage (attached) in Adelaide of John Baker and Hannah Price from 1847. Interestingly, one of the witnesses is another Baker, but here the first name isn't very clear - any suggestions as to what it is? And what do we think about Baker / Pride as candidates for George Baker's parents?
Here's the marriage register entry on familysearch:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-N22J?i=175&cat=6408 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-N22J?i=175&cat=6408)
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This seems to be John Baker & Hannah Pride
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201500343/john-baker
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That's a great find - I see they were from Mitcham, the same place that Job and Eliza Baker lived
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To me the witnesses are Job BAKER and Mary ?....MAN
Sue
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And yet on George's marriage cert. to Mary Iles it says mother unknown.
On the marriage cert. to Mary Iles it gives father's name as John Baker. I know sometimes difficult handwriting can introduce uncertainty when it comes to reading names, but this seems unambiguous to me.
So have you now purchased the Marriage Certificate, or otherwise, where does the information come from re father John BAKER and mother UK?
Sue
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So have you now purchased the Marriage Certificate, or otherwise, where does the information come from re father John BAKER and mother UK?
Sue
I had purchased the Marriage Certificate and attached it. See reply #15.
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I also thought the witnesses name looked like Job Baker, but I'm being cautious about confirmation bias here. If it were Job, maybe Job was his brother? I'm not quite sure what to do next to test the theory.
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So have you now purchased the Marriage Certificate, or otherwise, where does the information come from re father John BAKER and mother UK?
Sue
I had purchased the Marriage Certificate and attached it. See reply #15.
I cannot believe I missed that.
My apologies ;D
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I have combed The Biographical Index of South Australians for hints but not much luck. It is a very important record of the pioneers of the state with occasiional errors.
About John BAKER. Nothing not already known. See below
Hannah death notice.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/42978075
I think he may have married again after the death of Hannah to Sarah ? who died in 1890.
Some speculations about John BAKER
According to his death notice, he arrived per Royal Admiral in 1837.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202823633
So from 1837 to 1847 he appears to be an unmarried man.
If your George was born in 1846 and the marriage between John and Hannah (nee PRIDE) was 14th Jan 1847, he was either the child of a previous union of John's (though he states Bachelor) or exnuptial child of the couple.
Or neither ::)
Inconlusive really
Sue
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BISA records re Job BAKER. FYI (Likely to be more accurate than some online trees!)
Born c.1819. died 17.1,1888 at Mitcham SA. Arr. Per EDEN 1838. Occ. Publican, Gardener . Residence Adelaide, Mitcham Religion C of E Congregational . Married Eliza. Chn Anthony Holiday, (1838 1909) Mary Ann Hawkins (1839-) Ellen Saunders , Frederick Edwin (1953-1905) , others.
Sue
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I just spotted this obituary for the John Baker of the marriage certificate and about whom I have posted in the last couple of posts.
It gives good bits of family info and background which may help you with your decisions as to his relevance in George BAKER's parents.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202823540?searchTerm=%22royal%20admiral%20john%20baker%22~100
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These are sensational finds, I'm in awe! I hadn't honestly expected to get anywhere with this but these new articles on John and Hannah surely give enough info to take it further.
Thanks so much
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OK, progress. Here's a summary of the facts regarding John and Job Baker, with links where available to source docs:
George Baker marries Mary Iles, 1874 (marriage attached to a previous post in this thread). His age is 26, giving birth year c.1848, Adelaide. Dates on his gravestone concur. John Baker cited as father on marriage.
A search for a likely marriage of father John Baker around 1846-48 gives John Baker m. Hannah Pride in 1847 in Adelaide. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-N22J?cat=6408 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-N22J?cat=6408)
Hannah died in 1879. A notice in the press says Hannah was the wife of John Baker of Glen Osmond-Road. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/42978075 (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/42978075)
John remarried Sarah Lockier on 20 Nov 1879, giving name of his father as ‘George Baker’. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5355194:1780 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5355194:1780)
John Baker died 1895 – obits say he came from Stroud, England, emigrated in 1837 aged 21, therefore b.c.1816. He married twice, was survived by a daughter from each marriage, and a sister, Mrs. Brinkworth (of Mitcham). https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202823540?searchTerm=%22royal%20admiral%20john%20baker%22~100 (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202823540?searchTerm=%22royal%20admiral%20john%20baker%22~100)
Rebecca Baker m. Charles Brinkworth in Avening, Gloucestershire, England, in 1839. Father is George Baker, Weaver. Avening is a satellite village of Stroud, where brother John Baker was from. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5156/images/43138_636897_2195-00152?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=EkD25860&_phstart=successSource&pId=12105312 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5156/images/43138_636897_2195-00152?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=EkD25860&_phstart=successSource&pId=12105312)
John’s daughter by Hannah was Jane Rebecca Baker, b 20 Jul 1862 (parents John Baker and Hannah Pride). https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5505220:1778?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132445917779 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5505220:1778?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132445917779)
Jane Baker married John Cleary in 1886 in Knoxville, SA, giving her father’s name as John Baker. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5272491:1780?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132445917779 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5272491:1780?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132445917779)
... continued ...
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(cont.)
“JT [sic] Cleary” is mentioned as one of John Baker’s daughters in the obit (see above).
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5272491:1780?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132445917779 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5272491:1780?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132445917779)
Jane Cleary is buried with her parents, John and Hannah Baker
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201500343/john-baker (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201500343/john-baker)
John’s second daughter was with second wife Sarah Lockier – the daughter’s name was Mary Lydia Maria Baker, born 1881 in Glen Osmond.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5464723:1778?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132446102818 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5464723:1778?ssrc=pt&tid=185434371&pid=132446102818)
Returning to John’s sister, Rebecca Brinkworth, immigration papers for Chas. Brinkworth and Rebecca Brinkworth give their ages as 32 and 42 respectively.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8N-KSPH?cc=2613135&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AWX8D-TW3Z (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8N-KSPH?cc=2613135&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AWX8D-TW3Z)
Burial records for Chas. in 1889 (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/236898585/charles-brinkworth (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/236898585/charles-brinkworth)) and Rebecca in 1896 (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/236898765/rebecca-brinkworth (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/236898765/rebecca-brinkworth)) confirm these ages, giving year of birth for Rebecca c.1809-1812.
Chas. Brinkworth left a will. The two witnesses to the will are John Baker of Glen Osmond-Road (same address cited in death notice for wife Hannah), and Job Baker. The only beneficiary of the will is Rebecca Brinkworth. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-GCVH?cc=3007557&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A7WDH-8X2M (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-GCVH?cc=3007557&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A7WDH-8X2M)
On the marriage of John Baker to Hannah Price, Job Baker is a witness.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-N22J?i=175&cat=6408 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-N22J?i=175&cat=6408)
On the marriage of Job Baker to Eliza Halliday in Woodchester, Gloucestershire (also near Stroud, where John was from, and very close to Avening, where sister Rebecca married), his father is given as George Baker, Weaver, the same as on Rebecca's marriage.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5156/images/41511_1831109387_4353-00012?pId=1555213https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5156/images/41511_1831109387_4353-00012?pId=1555213 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5156/images/41511_1831109387_4353-00012?pId=1555213https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5156/images/41511_1831109387_4353-00012?pId=1555213)
That’s all the new info I have for now. It all ties together nicely, especially with the Will confirming the relationships.
Questions remaining are:
1. Rebecca’s age – her immigration and burial records are more or less consistent, giving year of birth either 1809 or 1812. Yet on Rebecca’s 1839 marriage to Charles Brinkworth, both bride and groom are listed as ‘underage’. If she were born c.1809/12 she would be in her late twenties when married. Interestingly, Job and his wife Eliza are also described as minors on their marriage.
2. Was George Baker who married Mary Iles the son of John Baker (brother of Job and Rebecca)? John Baker’s obit says he was survived by two daughters. George was still alive at this time, why was he not mentioned? My only thought is that the obit was probably prepared by either his sister, Rebecca Brinkworth, or his daughter, Jane Cleary. If his daughter, she was born in 1862, so some 16 years after George. George migrated to Ararat near Melbourne at some point, maybe Jane Cleary was unaware of him? But then, on George’s marriage to Mary Iles, he gives his father’s name but says mother unknown. Her married in 1874, at which time Hannah Baker was still living. It’s not a case where mum died in childbirth and the child never knew her.
So, problems, and yet George’s marriage gives father John Baker, and there’s a marriage a year ahead of George’s likely birthdate which looks good. I couldn’t see any other John Baker marriages to fit the facts.
Any suggestions on what else I can do to establish a link (or not) between George and father John, or how some of these problems might be explained?
Thanks again for everyone’s help!
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I would speculate that the obituary referenced legitimate children - daughters born within wedlock - and it is possible that George BAKER was born illegitimately to another woman, under her name in the records. Maybe "father unknown" officially. Not giving his mother's name for the marriage certificate politely conceals his illegitimacy and, perhaps, her profession. You don't have George Baker's birth certificate located?
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I hope we are all on the right track which points to Job BAKER, Rebecca (nee BAKER)and John BAKER being siblings.
I agree with fletcherandhook there could well be some stretching and manipulating of facts in the recording of children to John BAKER.
Slightly odd... 2 things about John.
There is barely 6 months between the death of wife 1, Hannah PRIDE and marriage to wife 2 Sarah LOCKIER. Possibly a previous association??
Hannah PRIDE and John were married a great many years before the birth of the child Jane Rebecca and this seems to have been mananged when Hannah was just over 40.
Perhaps not of immediate value, but good for the record.-Below, Ancestry link to the hospital death of Sarah BAKER (nee LOCKIER), the second wife 28/6/90. She was in hospital 10 days. I think complications from kydney stones.
The column in the book headed By What Ship, is blank.
This would suggest she was Aust born.
(the marriage record to John shows her father as William )
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/62318/images/62318_b1110997-00193?usePUB=true&pId=212622
Sue
ADDING Not as a criticism, but as a minor correction.
Baytree the link you have given for the will of Chas BRINKWORTH is actually the link to the will of Job BAKER.
This one is to BRINKWORTH. where we see the signed family names. ;D
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-G6MK?i=342&cc=3007557
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Thanks for corrections, etc.
Any ideas where I can find a birth record for George c.1848? I've looked everywhere I can think of, but maybe there's an Australian source would have something?
Establishing George's parents seems the key missing piece right now.
:)
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Well, I feel if that was available, it may have been found by now.
In spite of the thoughts fletcherandhook has earlier mentioned, I would be considering an outlay of $20 on the Death Certificate.
There may be unexpected information in it, although it obviously will not have his parents' names.
The informant may be someone who was a relative or it may be an officiating person who had access to information about the deceased furnished by a knowledgeable relative. Or Not ::)
Completed fully, a Victorian DC. has this included. It is a gamble for sure ??? ;D
Name
Date
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents' names
Spouse names
Marriage details
Chns names
No of chn
Birthplace
Sue
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Yikes, more family history money!! It's not a cheap hobby...
I'm not confident the baptism can be found, but I also suspect nobody has been looking for it - everyone seems to have found the baptism of George, son of Job and Eliza, and decided that was correct. I think the search stopped there.
I did try to search on the official South Australia website but it kept insisting I'd entered an incorrect format for the dates - but there's no guidance on correct formats! If anyone knows how to get this to work can you please let me know?
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/family-and-community/births-deaths-and-marriages/family-research (https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/family-and-community/births-deaths-and-marriages/family-research)
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I don't know much about Australian genealogy. Is there likely to be a marriage cert or death cert for George which provides names of his parents? :)
Are you in Australia? If not, current exchange rates are in your favour. To order a digital copy from Victoria is $22, that's GBP 11.19 or USD 14.08
You could go down the path of DNA testing, assuming you are a direct descendant of George Baker and Mary Iles, and want to bust through that brickwall.
Australian date format is day/month/year.
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I have the death cert for George now - see attached.
Born North Adelaide, in South Aus for 18 years, then moved to Victoria.
Nothing really to help identify his parents.
I've been through a bunch of directories for Adelaide and there are quite a few Baker families here at the time, impossible to know which is which.
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Here's the Will of John Baker who married Hannah Pride. Two daughters are mentioned, as per the obituary mentioned previously. No mention of a son George.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVN-C9ZP-5?i=280&cc=3007557&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQR9H-D6ZM (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVN-C9ZP-5?i=280&cc=3007557&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQR9H-D6ZM)
Looking at the 1841 census for Adelaide, there are 30 Baker entries, including 4 Johns and several 'J's. Given John Baker doesn't mention a son, and that George claims not to know his mother's name on his marriage certificate when Hannah Baker was still living, I'm increasingly of the opinion that Baker / Pride are not the correct parents for George Baker who married Mary Iles.
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Just some information about the hospital and the doctor to go with the Death certificate.
IMPROVED HOSPITAL
FOR ARARAT?
-_
£19,000 Remodelling Plan
ARARAT, Wednesday plan to remodel the Ararat District Hospital at a cost of about £18,000 or £18,500, and to alter the infectious diseases ward at a cost of about £1,000, was submitted to
the hospital committee last night by a Melbourne firm of architects. Reconstruction of the main building to provide a long single-story facade is proposed.
The plan provides for the total accommodation of 43 beds, excluding the midwifery wards, but Including wards for intermediate patients.
Dr. de Crespigny said that the medical staff favoured the proposal to make the hospital modem, and it was generally felt that the present time was opportune to improve accommodation.
| The building committee will consider the plan before holding a conference with the inspector of charities. The Colac Hospital will be Inspected.
Published 20 September 1934
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10970212
* * * *
Dr Frank de Crespigny, George was certainly under the care of one of the best doctors. God knows, we have a frightening shortage of medical physicians in the Central HighlandsGrampians Region of Victoria now.
FRANCIS PHILIP CHAMPION de CRESPIGNY
DOCTOR, MAYOR
28-5-1918 - 20-9-2010
BY MICHAEL COLLINS PERSSE
FRANK de Crespigny, a revered general practitioner at Ararat for 41 years and a former mayor of the south-western Victorian town, has died in Geelong after a fall. He was 92.
He came from an ancient family whose name "Champion" derived from descent in the male line from custodians of the castle of Falaise, birthplace of William the Conqueror, and hence Champions to the Dukes of Normandy. A 17th-century Richard Champion married the sole heiress of the Comtes de Crespigny. Their son, Champion de Crespigny and an officer in the French army, but a Huguenot, crossed the English Channel when persecution of Protestants revived and became a colonel in the British army.
Five generations later, Philip Champion de Crespigny, who in 1852 arrived in Victoria, was a gold warden and magistrate at Ararat. His elder son, twice married, fathered six sons of whom the second, Sir Trent, a founder and president of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, was an older half-brother of Frank's father, Francis. [...]
Knowing his patients thoroughly, practising true "medical friendship", he became a skilled surgeon, anaesthetist, and obstetrician, trusted for his kindness and clinical acumen.
(continued at link)
https://www.smh.com.au/national/a-medical-all-rounder-on-the-rounds-of-ararat-20101029-177gd.html
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Relflections..... ;D George's DC
The informant was probably getting his information from one of the offspring of the deceased.
The age at marriage of 19 years is incorrect as permission would have been needed for the marriage and thus be recorded on the cert as Mary’s was.
I am also a little doubtful that he was 26 at marriage (on that cert.)as he states. May have shaved off a couple of years so as not to appear to be taking a wife half his age.!
I would think the age at death is likely correct 98 so a birthdate of 1846 which predates the marriage of
Hannah and John BAKER Jan. 1847.
I think Hannah Pride arrive in May 1846 per Isabella Watson from London and signed thanks to surgeon published in the newspaper.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/73843871?searchTerm=%22hannah%20pride%22
Although she is not showing on passenger list. ?
https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/1846IsabellaWatson.htm
"A colonist of 33 years" ties in. Not much time for any premarriage infants.
John BAKER states bachelor so not likely to be bringing an infant into this marriage as result of being widowed and no son mentioned in his will.
Overall I do think George may be the son of another John Baker of North Adelaide.
Sue
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Thanks Sue, this is all very useful.
It's a little disappointing that all this good work has served to (probably) disprove a theory rather than prove it, but better to be correct.
I went through all the 'John Baker' South Australia wills I could find, and none mention a son George from Ararat.
I also looked at the 1841 census and there's a load of Bakers, include some Johns. I'm not sure there's enough info to be useful though.
Here's the link to the census in case anyone needs it:
https://www.archives.sa.gov.au/finding-information/discover-our-collection/registration-of-life-events/census-1841 (https://www.archives.sa.gov.au/finding-information/discover-our-collection/registration-of-life-events/census-1841)
And here are the wills:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/2752111?availability=Family%20History%20Library (https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/2752111?availability=Family%20History%20Library)
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This link below is to Grants of Administration and Wills online in Victoria.
The documents are digitized to about 1925.
Search in box Baker. Mary. death date 1893. It grants admin to George and although of no immediate help, there is his signature on Pge 10.
I would clip and keep this signature…. Because you just never know when it may be useful for comparisons in later times.
Members of the Iles family also have records of the same sort at the site.
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates
Sue
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thanks sue, that's great