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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: sueellio on Monday 31 July 23 10:21 BST (UK)
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Hi helpful folks !
I'm trying to find out whether the parents of Mona St Clair Springett( b1912 Nova Scotia -d 1831 Toronto Ontario) were Isabella ( Bella) de Forrest ( 1892-1918) and Harry William Springett (1890-1953) OR
I have located a marriage record for a Jack Mason and Eleanor Laing in Ontario .
I can also see a 1945 delayed birth registration for a John William Mason b1881 . Father was William Norman , mother Lucy and his sister Lilly L was the person registering the birth.
I'm not sure that this is "Jack" Mason because I can see a marriage record for John William Mason and Alma D Laing .
Mona married Charles James Stobbs 1909- 1991 .
According to the bio ( Mona Stobbs ) on findagrave her marriage record states her parents were Jack and Eleanor, however although I can locate the record of her marriage to Charles, I can't view the details
I've not been able to locate a birth record for Mona.
Its rather odd ( or maybe just a coincidence ) that
after Bella de Forrest's death, Harry William Springett married Alma Mason in 1921 at Halton , Ontario.
I can also see that Harry W , Alma and Mona are together on the 1921 census
Sorry about the sketchy and somewhat confused info but my Ancestry membership is the basic UK one so whilst it brings up Canadian records it blanks out some of the details and I can't actually view the docs .
I started off trying to trace the Stobbs connection back to England as my paternal grandmother was a Stobbs. Then I became embroiled in this.
Some of the info initially came from the Stobbs Grainger Facebook page .
I've looked on familysearch but they don't seem to have the Ontario marriage records .
Any help is much appreciated.
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Copyright prevents me posting the complete document but this is a partial copy of the piece which may help you.
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However...........on the death certificate, the details vary
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1921 census 58 Eileen Avenue York Ontario
Harry William Springett 31 Head
Alma Springett 33 Wife
Harry Springett 11 Son
Mona Springett 9 Daughter
Louis Springett 9 Son
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e003055537
marriage -
Harry William Springett 1891 England (aged 29 years)
Marriage Date 8 Apr 1920 York, Ontario, Canada
Father William Geo Springett Mother Marion Penny Springett
Spouse Alma Wilkins Maison (as spelt)
Sandra
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Lewis Gordon Springett - Birth Date 8 Mar 1912 Halton, Ontario, Canada
Father Harry William Springett Mother Bella De Foust.
If that was the correct birth for Lewis/Louis, then there should be a female birth - it looks like they were the same age -
marriage of Harry and Bella was 2 April 1912
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KS8H-3ML
Sandra
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Copyright prevents me posting the complete document but this is a partial copy of the piece which may help you.
Brilliant! Thank you
For witness 1 is that Mrs Harry William Springett?
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However...........on the death certificate, the details vary
Yes. I saw this.
Annie Jackson is Mona's MIL ie the mother of Charles Stobbs. I assumed they'd put that because they couldn't remember her mother's name , but it would have made more sense to put Isabella de Forrest who was Harry Wm Springetts wife as that' s who they've documented as her father? Rather strange.
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Copyright prevents me posting the complete document but this is a partial copy of the piece which may help you.
Brilliant! Thank you
For witness 1 is that Mrs Harry William Springett?
Yes, thats right. Its where the Springetts were living on the 1921 census
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1921 census York Ontario
Harry William Springett 31 Head
Alma Springett 33 Wife
Harry Springett 11 Son
Mona Springett 9 Daughter
Louis Springett 9 Son
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e003055537
Sandra
I'd just added that Alma , Harry and Mona were together on the 1921 census. I noticed that both Mona and Louis ( he's sometimes Lewis ) were born the same year.
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Lewis Gordon Springett - Birth Date 8 Mar 1912 Halton, Ontario, Canada
Father Harry William Springett Mother Bella De Foust.
If that was the correct birth for Lewis/Louis, then there should be a female birth - it looks like they were the same age - twins ?
marriage of Harry and Bella was 2 April 1912
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KS8H-3ML
Sandra
But Mona's parents were Jack Mason and Eleanor Laing, so she couldn't be a twin to Lewis. Am I not understanding what you're saying?
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I can see now that Alma was married to John Mason in 1907
Alma spinster (marked s) - John a bachelor (marked b)
https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/marriage/?ID=125746
Alma's address was 58 Eileen Avenue when she died in 1939
So they should appear on the 1931 census - bit of a drag to browse thru
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Census/Index1931
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Female birth record for 27 March 1912 Shelburne Nova Scotia
parents John Mason and Alma Laing
https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/birth/?ID=277283
Sandra
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1901 census Lunenburg Nova Scotia
Norman Mason 48
Lucy Mason 45
John Mason 20 2 March 1881. Labourer.
Rodger Mason 18
Annie Mason 15
Charles Mason 12
Lily Mason 9
Sidney Mason 5
Daisey Murry 8 months
Sandra
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John Norman Mason (with photo)
Declaration 1924 not married.
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1918 US WW1 Draft for John Norman Mason - names sister Lucy - person who will always know him.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9BR5-R4P?i=4715&cc=1968530&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKZNG-545
On a petition in 1939 he mentions married alma in Shelborne NS 1906 (as per petition - see below)
1940 census - Boston Suffolk Massachusetts
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4JR-ZBT
WW2 Draft -
John Norman Mason -Birth Date 1 Mar 1881 Lunenberg, Canada
Residence Place Suffolk, Massachusetts
Military Draft Date 1942
Next of Kin Mrs Francis Ryan
1950 census - Boston Suffolk Massachusetts
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6F33-B9WQ
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Female birth record for 27 March 1912 Shelburne Nova Scotia
parents John Mason and Alma Laing
https://archives.novascotia.ca/vital-statistics/birth/?ID=277283
Sandra
I saw that , but I thought we'd now defintely established (from her marriage record) that Mona's parents were Jack Mason and Eleanor Laing.
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1918 US WW1 Draft for John Norman Mason - names sister Lucy - person who will always know him.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9BR5-R4P?i=4715&cc=1968530&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKZNG-545
On a petition in 1939 he mentions married alma in Shelborne NS 1906 (as per petition - see below)
1940 census - Boston Suffolk Massachusetts
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4JR-ZBT
WW2 Draft -
John Norman Mason -Birth Date 1 Mar 1881 Lunenberg, Canada
Residence Place Suffolk, Massachusetts
Military Draft Date 1942
Next of Kin Mrs Francis Ryan
1950 census - Boston Suffolk Massachusetts
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6F33-B9WQ
I found a birth registration on the Nova Scotia vital statistics link . John Norman Mason b 1881 but registering his own birth in 1924..He gives his address as Boston Massachusetts.
He actually has 2 birth registration records as his sister Lilly L also registered it in 1945.
So on the 1950 census he states he's a widow, however Alma Mason nee Laing married Charles W Stobbs in 1920.
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Never believe everything you read on census, the information is only as good as the informants knowledge or who fills that information in. Its not unusual for people to claim they were married or widowed when they were not.
John Mason made a few declaration of intention - 27 March 1922 - says he is not married
2 November 1936 - says he is not married and no children.
Eventually natuaralised 18 September 1939 - petition 199167
In original post you say quote "I have located a marriage record for a Jack Mason and Eleanor Laing in Ontario"
Where/What date is the marriage of Jack Mason to Eleanor Laing -
Sandra
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So on the 1950 census he states he's a widow, however Alma Mason nee Laing married Charles W Stobbs in 1920.
It was the daughter Mona who married Charles James Stobbs. Alma was the mother of Mona.
Sandra
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Just to point out, how mixed up these documents can be...here is an example.
Alma Lang seems to be Alma Langwell on the 1881 Canadian Census living in Shelburne Nova Scotia - the parents names James and Margaret almost match those given in the left hand column of her marriage to Harry William Springett. However, note that the name on the main part of the document on the marriage of Alma is Alma Wilkins Maison - aged 32 years - widow - parents - William Janes Laing Margaret Ann Cocken.
Yet again in the main part of the marriage document it says her father was Daniel Laing and mother Margaret Cochrane.
James Langwell 45
Margaret Langwell 31
William Langwell 14
Jessie Langwell 12
Frederick Langwell 9
Eva Langwell 7
John Langwell 5
Alma Langwell 1 born 1880
Mary A Cockar 74 widowed. born 1907.
Sandra
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1891 census Shelburne, Shelburne, Nova Scotia.
Margaret Langwell 41 Head. Widowed.
William Langwell 23 Son
Frederick Langwell 19 Son
John Langwell 15 Son
Jessie Langwell 17 Daughter
Alma Langwell 11 Daughter
Ann Cocane 80 Lodger. born 1811. widowed.
Sandra
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1901 Shelburne and Queens (Shelburne).
Margaret Lang 51 Head. Retired.
Alma Lang 20 Daughter
Sandra
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1911 census Shelburne and Queens Nova Scotia
Mrs. Margaret Lang 61 Head
Alma Mason 28 Daughter
Sandra
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So on the 1950 census he states he's a widow, however Alma Mason nee Laing married Charles W Stobbs in 1920.
It was the daughter Mona who married Charles James Stobbs. Alma was the mother of Mona.
Sandra
Sorry , I should have said he states he's a widow , but Alma Mason nee Laing married Harry William Springett in 1921.
According to Mona's marriage record Eleanor (not Alma) Laing was her mother.
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Thank you.
Unless there is a marriage record for Jack Mason to Eleanor Laing, someone probably wrote or heard the wrong name. Have you seen an actual marriage record showing those names ?
If you have can you give a link or post a copy please.
There is already a discrepancy over the fathers name on Alma's marriage document !!
The maiden name of the mother of Alma was wrong on her death certificate, should be Margaret and they put May Laing !!!
The mother in law details were put on the death certificate for Mona when it asks for the maiden name of her mother !!
I wonder if John and Alma ever got divorced. It was so expensive then, sometimes people didn't bother :-\
Someone else probably filled in the information on the 1940/50 census forms !!
Other petitions, declarations etc say John Mason was not married which seems correct.
The family of Harry William Springett don't even mention Alma as his wife in his obituary, they only mention the late Isabella !! Strange !!
So as I said before, "Never believe everything you read on census or other documents, the information is only as good as the informants knowledge or who fills that information in"
Sandra
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Thank you.
Unless there is a marriage record for Jack Mason to Eleanor Laing, someone probably wrote or heard the wrong name. Have you seen an actual marriage record showing those names ?
If you have can you give a link or post a copy please.
There is already a discrepancy over the fathers name on Alma's marriage document !!
The maiden name of the mother of Alma was wrong on her death certificate, should be Margaret and they put May Laing !!!
The mother in law details were put on the death certificate for Mona when it asks for the maiden name of her mother !!
I wonder if John and Alma ever got divorced. It was so expensive then, sometimes people didn't bother :-\
Someone else probably filled in the information on the 1940/50 census forms !!
Other petitions, declarations etc say John Mason was not married which seems correct.
The family of Harry William Springett don't even mention Alma as his wife in his obituary, they only mention the late Isabella !! Strange !!
So as I said before, "Never believe everything you read on census or other documents, the information is only as good as the informants knowledge or who fills that information in"
Sandra
Thank you.
Yes, I noticed they didn't mention Alma.
I found a newspaper obituary for Bella Springett and it seems she died from self inflicted throat injuries😔
Ancestry brought up this in hints.
I can't find the record on FamilySearch even though it appears they have Ontario ,Canada
marriages indexed for that period.
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Sadly that link only shows the marriage certificate of Mona St Clair Springett to Charles James Stobbs Jack Mason and Eleanor Laing were listed as her parents on that. Same as partial copy in reply 1
The death of Bella was a sad one :'(
Sandra
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Sadly that link only shows the marriage certificate of Mona St Clair Springett to Charles James Stobbs Jack Mason and Eleanor Laing were listed as her parents on that. Same as partial copy in reply 1
The death of Bella was a sad one :'(
Sandra
I realised that afterwards when I saw it said "child".
Is there any way I could try and find Mona between her birth in 1912 ( we think ) and 1921?
Another census perhaps ?
Thank you for all your help.
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The Canadian Census years were 1911, 1921 and 1931.
There is a Canadian Prairie census of 1916 for Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta.
Mona was in Ontario so no other document available online.
Did try and investigate the St Clair part of her name in relations to those families but sadly drew a blank. :-\
Sandra
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The Canadian Census years were 1911, 1921 and 1931.
There is a Canadian Prairie census of 1916 for Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta.
Mona was in Ontario so no other document available online.
Did try and investigate the St Clair part of her name in relations to those families but sadly drew a blank. :-\
Sandra
Thank you. I saw the 1916 Prairie census too.
I think some time ago I saw that there was a church or cemetery named St Clair somewhere that had a connection to Mona .
That's very vague but at the time I hadn't got into all of this parentage confusion with her so didn't take that much notice.