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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Pennines on Monday 24 July 23 13:26 BST (UK)
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On the 1851 Census of Lewes in Sussex, I came across the attached description of a lady - in the occupation column.
Had that been me - I don't think I would have been quite so explicit!
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I can’t make out what it says, something looks like Lanatic, don’t think it is an F though.
Lanatic ? ale …….?Two words bracketed together ?
Do say what you see it as.
Viktoria.
Lunatic since Infancy?
Oh poor soul. V.
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Wife of a lunatic in an asylum.
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Yes BumbleB - that's what it says.
Sorry Viktoria, I probably should have clarified what it said. (Very descriptive of her situation).
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Is she the Household Head or, if not, could the Head have given that info?
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Exactly, but when she was asked, that was her response!
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She was a Visitor with a family - so it would have been the Head of the house who gave that description.
However, I still thought it funny (which is insensitive I know) AND unusual -- so I just wanted to share it. I have never seen such a description before.
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The Lunacy Act 1845 was an important landmark in the treatment of the mentally ill, as it explicitly changed the status of mentally ill people to patients who required treatment. The Act created the Lunacy Commission, headed by Lord Shaftesbury, to focus on lunacy legislation reform.
The term "Lunatic Asylum" was still in common use in 1851.
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There is a book 'My Ancestor was a Lunatic'.
I think I heard once that there were 3 types of Lunatics - but I can't remember what they were!!
Actually one of my Great Grandfathers died in an Asylum - a bit of a worry, as that relationship isn't too far back from me. I did obtain his admission papers from the Archives - very interesting reading.
He was only 46 years old when he died.
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There is a book 'My Ancestor was a Lunatic'.
I think I heard once that there were 3 types of Lunatics - but I can't remember what they were!!
Lunatics
Idiots
Imbeciles
Graded according to their IQ.
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I have an ancestor too who was admitted to a Lunatic Asylum in 1878 and died there in 1894. She married in 1846 and had 11 children before being admitted.
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The funniest wife's occupation I saw on , think it was 1911 was " husband's slave",
I wonder if the poor soul was having bad time with her husband at the time
LM
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The funniest wife's occupation I saw on , think it was 1911 was " husband's slave",
I wonder if the poor soul was having bad time with her husband at the time
LM
At least she appears to have had "freedom of speech" in order to make that comment! ;D
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My first thought was to wonder if her husband had been a hatter, which is where the saying "Mad as a hatter" came from. .
Hatters worked with mercury, as did several old occupations. and it wasn't known how dangerous it was.
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Lunatics
Idiots
Imbeciles
Graded according to their IQ.
Thank you KGarrad for solving the 3 categories.
Louisa Maud -- the entry of 'husband's slave' on a census is SO funny - thank you.
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Wonder who filled it in, wish I could recall it, might have a go just to find out who they were as a family,y not mine I might add. LM
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Recently looked at a Will of someone who lived nor far from Lewes and the man mentioned his son was a lunatic but that if he recovered from the lunacy, he could control his inheritance. Wondering if this was a case of what we now refer to as bipolar, because from the wording it might not have been his first bout of lunacy.
It would be very weird if she was that man’s wife!
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Louisa Maud -- I have found it.
The wife was called Alice Rose, aged 48 living in Essex, with a husband John Rose. Interestingly it looks as though she started to sign it - but then the 'Alice' was crossed out and 'John' inserted.
See what you think.
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Perhaps he turned up just at the time !!. LM
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It sort of indicates that he was certainly 'the boss'!
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I have someone in my tree described as an imbecile. He goes through the census described thus but is also employed as a farm labourer. So my guess is that he couldn’t have been too afflicted even if he was only carrying out very menial tasks. He lives with his parents but I lose track of him in 1891, I’ve always hoped that he didn’t end up locked away somewhere :(
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I do wo der if any of their family have picked it up in recent years when traci g their family, you can hear some woman saying "nothing changes"
LM
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Suey -- I came across one who was a Farm Labourer - living with his parents and he was in his 40s - then the parents died - other relatives took him in. He remained working as a farm Labourer though, still described as Imbecile. (This was in my neighbour's family tree - hence I was following the parents through, but became interested in this son.)
Louisa --- that is SO funny, I do hope some descendant did find that census. Such things bring a bit of 'colour' to a family tree and give you something to laugh about.
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Given time I might go forward to 1921 and 1939 to see what the slave wife shows herself as
LM
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Great idea LM -- I never thought of doing that. (It's so very funny isn't it - I'm laughing about it again!)
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I had to read it more than once originally, she must have had a bad day but I do believe that women were slaves to their husbands in days gone by. LM
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....and probably still are in some households.
Carol
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I agree Carol
When I got married almost 59 years ago I promised to "love honour and obey", don't know about the obey bit,!!!! , should be "love honour and compromise"
LM
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I agree Carol
When I got married almost 59 years ago I promised to "love honour and obey", don't know about the obey bit,!!!! , should be "love honour and compromise"
LM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I can't remember whether I agreed to obey "he who would like to be obeyed, but very rarely is" back in 1964! :o Is/was that phrase part of Register Office marriage dialogue?
Whatever, we have always worked as a partnership. ;D
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I have a feeling I had a choice but not 100% sure, I suppose it had always been said in general in the past so I thought I would stay with it, yes, compromise is the word, wonder what my OH would say
LM
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I promised to "Love, Honour and Obey" 53 years ago....not sure that I kept to the obey bit ;D that should be changed to Respect.
I don't think Royalty have the word obey in their vows.
Carol
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By coincidence, when I retired from full time employment, I took a part time job with 'Relate', the Marriage Guidance Charity.
I was in the office (not a counsellor!) -- but one of the things I picked up, was that a successful relationship was based on 'Learning to live with Differences' -- which seems so obvious really.
I suppose if couples cannot put up with the differences they have - the relationship will fall down.
(I never knew we had a choice about the word 'obey' in the marriage service. I've never thought about it before.)
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I was in the office (not a counsellor!) -- but one of the things I picked up, was that a successful relationship was based on 'Learning to live with Differences' -- which seems so obvious really.
I suppose if couples cannot put up with the differences they have - the relationship will fall down.
Absolutely ;D
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I was no doubt soppy and in love ,
LM
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I have someone in my tree described as an imbecile. He goes through the census described thus but is also employed as a farm labourer. So my guess is that he couldn’t have been too afflicted even if he was only carrying out very menial tasks. He lives with his parents but I lose track of him in 1891, I’ve always hoped that he didn’t end up locked away somewhere :(
I had a work colleague who was deprived of oxygen at birth and had intellectual disability but could do cleaning and other menial tasks. His mind was often not on the job and he was easily distracted. In the 1800s he would be described as perhaps a "moron" before the term became an insult. Or said to be "a bit simple". He also used to grab people by the arm a lot and embrace people by hugging them or touching and stroking their face.
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Coombs -- just to say, I read your message, then noticed amongst your surname interests, the name - BRAIN!
How apt for this thread!
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Coombs -- just to say, I read your message, then noticed amongst your surname interests, the name - BRAIN!
How apt for this thread!
How do you mean?
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Oh Coombs - I do hope I haven't offended you -- it was simply that we had been discussing mental incapacity in this particular topic.
I noticed that one of the surname interests you have listed as being in your Ancestry - was the surname of 'Brain'. Our brain is the organ in our body which controls our mental capacity.
Or am I still not making sense? (As usual!!)
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Oh Coombs - I do hope I haven't offended you -- it was simply that we had been discussing mental incapacity in this particular topic.
I noticed that one of the surname interests you have listed as being in your Ancestry - was the surname of 'Brain'. Our brain is the organ in our body which controls our mental capacity.
Or am I still not making sense? (As usual!!)
No I do get you, yes all this talk about people who were lunatics, or "imbeciles" or those who were described as "simple minded". My aforementioned old work colleague was born 1944. He was not "retarded" or insane but was eccentric and obtuse with instructions and struggled, but he was also quite assertive when he wanted to be, so did not suffer fools gladly, and a bit of a busybody, and could be opinionated. One time he signed his name and gave his middle initial of "N", and I asked what is his middle name and he said "I shall give you a clue. I was born a week before Christmas".
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Oh goodness Coombs - what on earth did that mean? Or was it completely meaningless?
I just want to laugh at it, as it doesn't mean anything to me.
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Oh goodness Coombs - what on earth did that mean? Or was it completely meaningless?
I just want to laugh at it, as it doesn't mean anything to me.
Noel was his middle name. ;)
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I've just come across an interesting occupation in the 1921 census - it's a Caroline Meredith, age 77, in Kearsley, Lancs, listed as mother-in-law in the household of John Martin.
Her occupation? - "Eating, Sleeping, Grumbling" ;D ;D ;D
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Well you should have heard me laugh and that is what life is about if we can laugh, luckily I am in on my own otherwise my other half might think I had a funny half an hour, thanks for that
LM
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Suey -- I came across one who was a Farm Labourer - living with his parents and he was in his 40s - then the parents died - other relatives took him in. He remained working as a farm Labourer though, still described as Imbecile. (This was in my neighbour's family tree - hence I was following the parents through, but became interested in this son.)
Louisa --- that is SO funny, I do hope some descendant did find that census. Such things bring a bit of 'colour' to a family tree and give you something to laugh about.
I tried all his siblings, aunts, uncles, felt sure he’d be with someone, not found a death or burial for him either….I’m going to give him one more try.
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I've just come across an interesting occupation in the 1921 census - it's a Caroline Meredith, age 77, in Kearsley, Lancs, listed as mother-in-law in the household of John Martin.
Her occupation? - "Eating, Sleeping, Grumbling" ;D ;D ;D
Love It... ;D ;D thanks for sharing.
Carol
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I've just come across an interesting occupation in the 1921 census - it's a Caroline Meredith, age 77, in Kearsley, Lancs, listed as mother-in-law in the household of John Martin.
Her occupation? - "Eating, Sleeping, Grumbling" ;D ;D ;D
That certainly made me snort my tea! ;D ;D
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Oh goodness Coombs - what on earth did that mean? Or was it completely meaningless?
I just want to laugh at it, as it doesn't mean anything to me.
... but many of us do know what was inferred.
NOEL (noun) = Noel derives from the old French Noël "Christmas", a variant (and later a replacement) of nael, which itself derives from the Latin natalis "birth".
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Oh goodness Coombs - what on earth did that mean? Or was it completely meaningless?
I just want to laugh at it, as it doesn't mean anything to me.
... but many of us do know what was inferred.
NOEL (noun) = Noel derives from the old French Noël "Christmas", a variant (and later a replacement) of nael, which itself derives from the Latin natalis "birth".
My old colleague's case is not unique either, many people born in December have Noel as a middle name. One of the most famous was Noele Gordon aka Meg from Crossroads. Joan Noele Gordon. Born 25 December 1919. Her birth appears in the Births registered in Jan, Feb, Mar 1920 quarter, so probably registered in January 1920.
That colleague was born 18 Dec 1944, and he was the one who asked me for tips on his family tree when I said I do genealogy, and he gave me a few names. He even bought his birth certificate to work once to help me help him with his family tree, as well as a former workplace group photo. His birth was registered in very late Dec 1944, 28th I seem to remember from the birth cert, so his birth will appear in the Dec quarter of 1944. If his parents had have registered the birth on 1 Jan 1945, he'd appear in Births registered in Jan, Feb and March 1945.
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I've just come across an interesting occupation in the 1921 census - it's a Caroline Meredith, age 77, in Kearsley, Lancs, listed as mother-in-law in the household of John Martin.
Her occupation? - "Eating, Sleeping, Grumbling" ;D ;D ;D
Arthurk - this is brilliant! I assume it was the son-in-law, who gave Caroline this 'occupation'.
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Caroline Meredith - I wonder who amended the entry? :-X
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Looks like someone was playing OXO - but couldn't get it quite right.
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Arthurk - this is brilliant! I assume it was the son-in-law, who gave Caroline this 'occupation'.
The son-in-law signed the form, and the writing on the rest of it looks to be in the same handwriting. However, I've just noticed that the box for 'Wife' has had something else written in it which has been erased, with 'Wife' written over it. I can't make it out, unfortunately. See below.
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-community-grouch-1.6920991
Want to be a grouch?
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Diana - how did you find this - were you job-hunting?!!
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Diana - how did you find this - were you job-hunting?!!
LOL…how did you know?!
Just turned up on the CBC last night…pure coincidence!
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Caroline Meredith - I wonder who amended the entry? :-X
Hi would it be possible to send me the 1921 census entry with Jack Martin and the aforementioned woman? I am researching Jack Martin but do not have 1921 access.
Thank you
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Talking of birth certs, now you can order and download any birth registered between July 1837 and 1922 within perhaps 30 seconds or so on the GRO site. I have an ancestor's cousin born in November 1922 according to the 1939 register, but his birth was registered in the first quarter of 1923. Dang, just missed out on the online downloads. ;)
I like some of the outspoken views on the census forms such as "Eating, grumbling, sleeping" etc.
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The son-in-law signed the form, and the writing on the rest of it looks to be in the same handwriting. However, I've just noticed that the box for 'Wife' has had something else written in it which has been erased, with 'Wife' written over it. I can't make it out, unfortunately. See below.
Has anyone been able to decipher the 'more or less' obliterated word under 'wife' please. I would love to know what that is.
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I did wonder if it might just be "Married Woman", as the end of the first word looks to me a bit like '-ied'. However, the first letter isn't the same as the many M's on the form (Married, Martin etc).
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I thought the first letter looked a bit like a 'P'.