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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: morgan77 on Monday 17 July 23 20:00 BST (UK)
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can some one tell me where the 3rd Battalion South wales borderers ,were stationd between 1881 to 1893 . thank you
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You could try working your way through
https://newspapers.library.wales/search?range%5Bmin%5D=1881&range%5Bmax%5D=1892&alt=%28%29&page=1&refine=%22south+wales+borderers%22&query=%223rd+battalion%22&sort=score&order=desc&rows=12
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It was a militia battalion - part time soldiers - and apart from annual camps they would have spent most of their time in South Wales.
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A simple question, but regretably a slightly complicated answer.
1881 was a momentous year for the British Army as it was the start of the Childers Reforms. The old numbered Regular regiments* were given territorial links and names, and the previously separate Militia battalions and the Rifle volunteers were all swept up in the amalgamation. The result was the SWB had two 3rd Battalions.
The first of these was the Militia battalion (mentioned by Shaun) formed from the old Royal Radnor and Brecknock Rifles. They continued to have that association with Radnor and Brecknock. The militia had very specific terms of service which meant they could only be called out ('embodied') by a proclamation issued by the Lord Lieutenant of the county and even then they could only remain embodied for a limited time. Their role was for local defence and once they had completed their initial training they only had to parade once a year and did very little continuation training. Men for the militia were selected from list drawn up by their local communities and they had to fulfill their 3 year commitment unless they were either grossly unfit for military service or they could pay a substitute to take their place.
The other 3rd Battalion was the Volunteer battalion formed from the 2nd Monmouthshire Rifle Volunteer Corps. These men were true volunteers and were consequently more efficient soldiers and were paid more than the militia. They were based in Pontypool and Brecon. A large number of the men of A, B and C Companies came from the workforce of the steelworks and tinplate works just outside Pontypool. By 1886 they were renumbered as the 2nd Volunteer Battalion SWB (not to be confused with the Regular 2nd Battalion SWB.) 28 Officers and 709 NCOs and men of the battalion volunteered to go the South Africa in January 1900 to fight in the Second Boer War. Three of the officers and 34 NCOs and men died in South Africa, either killed by the Boers, or succumbed to disease.
So depending on where the person you are interested in was living, you can probably work out which battalion he served with. The muster rolls for the 3rd Volunteer battalion have survived, but I'm not sure if the militia rolls have also survived.
If you search the (free) newspaper archive at the National Library of Wales (as suggested by hanes teulu), you will find many a reports about the activities of the 3rd Volunteer Battalion, their annual camps, social events and shooting competitions etc.
* the regular South Wales Borders were previously the 24th Regiment of Foot. A brief regimental history here: https://web.archive.org/web/20060116064146/http://www.24thfoot.org/history.htm
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I might well be wrong but wasn’t it The South Wales Borderers who fought at Rorke’s Drift ?
Zulu.?
Viktoria.
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I might well be wrong but wasn’t it The South Wales Borderers who fought at Rorke’s Drift ?
Zulu.?
Viktoria.
1st and 2nd Battalions fought in the Zulu War in 1879/80 as 24th Foot. They weren't called the South Wales Borderers until 1881. Previously they'd been associated with Warwickshire (until the depot moved to Brecon in 1873).
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Thanks,I had no exact date in mind , for Rorke’s Drift.
One from that engagement is buried in a pauper’s grave in Manchester’s Philip’s Park Cemetery .I hope it is still there .
The Etihad Stadium is so close ,some graves were disturbed during its erection, ,many stillborn and neonatal deaths !
He had to sell his medal !
I will try to find out who it is.
Back again——-
William Jones,V.C.
Also John Lyons and Joshua Lodge who were honoured in a ceremony at the same cemetery a while ago
Viktoria.
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A simple question, but regretably a slightly complicated answer.
1881 was a momentous year for the British Army as it was the start of the Childers Reforms. The old numbered Regular regiments* were given territorial links and names, and the previously separate Militia battalions and the Rifle volunteers were all swept up in the amalgamation. The result was the SWB had two 3rd Battalions.
The first of these was the Militia battalion (mentioned by Shaun) formed from the old Royal Radnor and Brecknock Rifles. They continued to have that association with Radnor and Brecknock. The militia had very specific terms of service which meant they could only be called out ('embodied') by a proclamation issued by the Lord Lieutenant of the county and even then they could only remain embodied for a limited time. Their role was for local defence and once they had completed their initial training they only had to parade once a year and did very little continuation training. Men for the militia were selected from list drawn up by their local communities and they had to fulfill their 3 year commitment unless they were either grossly unfit for military service or they could pay a substitute to take their place.
The other 3rd Battalion was the Volunteer battalion formed from the 2nd Monmouthshire Rifle Volunteer Corps. These men were true volunteers and were consequently more efficient soldiers and were paid more than the militia. They were based in Pontypool and Brecon. A large number of the men of A, B and C Companies came from the workforce of the steelworks and tinplate works just outside Pontypool. By 1886 they were renumbered as the 2nd Volunteer Battalion SWB (not to be confused with the Regular 2nd Battalion SWB.) 28 Officers and 709 NCOs and men of the battalion volunteered to go the South Africa in January 1900 to fight in the Second Boer War. Three of the officers and 34 NCOs and men died in South Africa, either killed by the Boers, or succumbed to disease.
So depending on where the person you are interested in was living, you can probably work out which battalion he served with. The muster rolls for the 3rd Volunteer battalion have survived, but I'm not sure if the militia rolls have also survived.
If you search the (free) newspaper archive at the National Library of Wales (as suggested by hanes teulu), you will find many a reports about the activities of the 3rd Volunteer Battalion, their annual camps, social events and shooting competitions etc.
* the regular South Wales Borders were previously the 24th Regiment of Foot. A brief regimental history here: https://web.archive.org/web/20060116064146/http://www.24thfoot.org/history.htm
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thank you Andy for the reply , its George Watkins I am intrested in ,I have his service record , and some census records . in 1871 he was aged 7 ,living in brecon , cant find him in 1881 , in 1891 he was living in ferndale in the Rhondda . gave himself up to the police ,some time after 1891 .
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thank you Andy for the reply , its George Watkins I am intrested in ,I have his service record , and some census records . in 1871 he was aged 7 ,living in brecon , cant find him in 1881 , in 1891 he was living in ferndale in the Rhondda . gave himself up to the police ,some time after 1891 .
I couldn't find his service record on FindMyPast. Do you have his regimental number? As he was in Brecon in 1871 he could have joined either battalion there. However his attestation paper within his service record should make it clear if he was in the Militia or the Rifle Volunteers.
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This is it, Andy: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO96%2F0718%2F214%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO96%2F718%2F1399572
Attested for the militia (SWB) in 1883. Transferred to 3/Welsh in 1890. Discharged 1895 after some small difficulty with the civil power.
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Thanks, Shaun, so yes he was in the Militia 3rd Battalion. Good to see the final remark on discharge "very good character"; seems he redeemed himself after his short absence 5 years earlier.