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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bellowsbrick49 on Monday 17 July 23 08:55 BST (UK)
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Some years ago my DNA results on "My Heritage" came up with me being 9.2% Balkan . The rest of it was pretty "UK standard" or thereabouts. I had no idea of the time period this Balkan bit related to . A few days ago I was rung up by a "My Heritage" salesman trying to sign me up . I declined on the grounds that their DNA description had not helped me much : my father's side of the tree was comparatively small and had lots of "brick walls" . But this was a call to action and I pushed myself to get an Ancestry DNA kit so as to get a different "descriptive take" on it . I have now got 3 months membership but maybe only 2 month by the time the analysis is done. One brick wall is for
a lady called MATHEITBEL who married (I think) JOHN CALLENDAR TAYNTON b1797 London my GGG Grandfather. There are two entries for his wife MATHEITBEL and John who was a SMITH by occupation and the two children mentioned are CHARLES and ALFRED. But is MATHEITBEL a Balkan name ? I have no idea but hopefully the "Ancestry UK" membership will throw up some answers. It is clearly written twice and does not appear to look like a transcription error.
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There were quite a few ladies named Mehetabel or Mehitabel in England. It's a biblical name.
"Mehetabel ("מהיטבאל") ("Whom God benefits" or "God causes good") was the wife of Hadad, one of the kings of Edom (Genesis 36:39)"
Charles and Alfred were baptised at the same time so the eccentric spelling could be a one-off.
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I'd be a bit sceptical about MH ethnicity results, they say I have 16 % Eastern european, on Ancestry I have none, not even close. Ancestry lines up pretty well with my known lines, even picking up most of my ancestors from southern England, Hants, Dorset, Sussex, Berkshire.
Biblical names seemed to very popular in the early -mid 1800s, I have one chap who named his three daughters after the daughters of Job:- Jemima, Kezia and Kerenhappuch. The first 2 are OK, but do you know how many ways you can spell Kerenhappuch? ;D
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Have you got Alfred's marriage record 24 jan 1842? Father John (deceased) occ Smith, witnesses Richard Taynton (marks X) and Mary Taynton (signs).
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I am new here... and I am a Yank. But only 2 generations removed from Eastern Europe. My Grandparents were of Croatian descent. Croatia is part of old Jugoslavia. Jugoslavia was Eastern European and Balkan. Matheitbel does not sound Slavic at all. Not in the least bit.
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records from St Marys,Lambeth London confirm John Taynton married a Matheitbel
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?size=10&sexe=&nom=&ignore_each_patronyme=&prenom=MATHEITBEL+&prenom_operateur=or&ignore_each_prenom=&place__0__=&zonegeo__0__=England%2C+United+Kingdom&country__0__=GBR®ion__0__=ENG&subregion__0__=&place__1__=&zonegeo__1__=&country__1__=®ion__1__=&subregion__1__=&place__2__=&zonegeo__2__=&country__2__=®ion__2__=&subregion__2__=&place__3__=&zonegeo__3__=&country__3__=®ion__3__=&subregion__3__=&place__4__=&zonegeo__4__=&country__4__=®ion__4__=&subregion__4__=&type_periode=between&from=&to=&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&go=1
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records from St Marys,Lambeth London confirm John Taynton married a Matheitbel
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?size=10&sexe=&nom=&ignore_each_patronyme=&prenom=MATHEITBEL+&prenom_operateur=or&ignore_each_prenom=&place__0__=&zonegeo__0__=England%2C+United+Kingdom&country__0__=GBR®ion__0__=ENG&subregion__0__=&place__1__=&zonegeo__1__=&country__1__=®ion__1__=&subregion__1__=&place__2__=&zonegeo__2__=&country__2__=®ion__2__=&subregion__2__=&place__3__=&zonegeo__3__=&country__3__=®ion__3__=&subregion__3__=&place__4__=&zonegeo__4__=&country__4__=®ion__4__=&subregion__4__=&type_periode=between&from=&to=&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&go=1
These records aren't a marriage. They are just derived from the two baptism records that are already known, they record John Traynor and Matheitbel as parents.
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You are right Lizzie ...of course - but confirms John was with Matheitbel as parents :)
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Charles and Alfred Taynton were baptised on the same day - 9 Feb 1817 at St Mary Lambeth. But we cannot assume they were twins. Charles is first so might be older. There are two separate consecutive entries in the register, so Matheitbel is written twice, but if the vicar/clerk thought that the mother's name was Mehitabel and that was how you spelt it was bound to be the same both times. John's occupation is Smith and they live at Chapel Street. The following year Job Taynton was baptised at same church - 30 May 1818, parents John and Mary, they live at Chapel Street and John's occupation is smith. This seems too soon for Mehitabel to have died and John to have married a Mary and fathered another child. No likely death of a Mehitabel in the area. Could Mehitabel actually be Mary and she used the biblical name occasionally or did the vicar who baptised Charles and Alfred mishear her saying "Mary Taynton" and thought it was one forename?
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or did the vicar who baptised Charles and Alfred mishear her saying "Mary Taynton" and thought it was one forename?
Possibly the Mary Taynton who was a witness to Alfred's marriage in 1842.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1623/images/31280_195095-00122?pId=2394146
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or did the vicar who baptised Charles and Alfred mishear her saying "Mary Taynton" and thought it was one forename?
Possibly the Mary Taynton who was a witness to Alfred's marriage in 1842.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1623/images/31280_195095-00122?pId=2394146
i wondered that. The other witness was a Richard Taynton who made his mark. Uncle maybe ??
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There is a death of a Mary Ann Taynton age 55 registered in Lambeth district in 1845
and a burial of a John Taynton age 32 on 24 Jan 1819 in Lambeth - residence Stockwell.
The nearest Mary I can find in 1841 is a Mary Tanton, living at Harriot Street Lambeth, but with several Tanton children, but they may not be hers, could be nephews / nieces.
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The Mary Ann who died in 1845, lived at East street before her death
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I decided to do a DNA "compare and contrast" using "My Heritage" versus "Ancestry". These are the results:-
"My Heritage" online DNA results:-
English 63%
Scandinavian 26.2%
Balkan 9.2%
Nigerian 1%
CUM TOT. 99.4%
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"Ancestry" online DNA results:-
England and North European 67%
Sweden and Denmark 11%
Scotland 9%
Ireland 6%
Wales 5%
Norway 2%
CUM TOT. 100%
So my "Balkan hopes" have been dashed!
It seems that some of the above comments were right on the mark.
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And now a bit of a "tangent":
The wider family group of AUGUSTA TAYLOR (born 1812 Bristol ) and JOSEPH REUBEN DEAKIN (born 1854) had some unusual occupations . One of the these I have known about for many years but the other one I found out about only today.
1) Bellows Making . My connections to the "Mr Big" of 19th Century Bellows making is very indirect with many "ups" and "downs". One JOHN COLLINGWOOD ONIONS (born 1809) was the "Mr Big" of 19th Century bellows manufacture in the British Empire . His company had an extensive catalogue of bellows and (I think) some of the family wealth helped to set up one of the Art Galleries at the University of Birmingham . And it also led to ALLDAYS car production in Birmingham and a later merger with Royal Enfield (I think).I am hoping that my recent "Ancestry" DNA test will help me see through this maze.
2) Tobacco Pipe Making : This one is today's discovery hence my interest now . THOMAS HUEY and his son WILLIAM FAULKNER HUGHEY (born 1834 Westminster) both did this . This was confirmed by looking at the son's MC which specifically mentions Tobacco - the Censuses merely refer to PIPE MANUFACTURE . This was interesting to me because my father had referred to my great grandfather JOSEPH REUBEN DEAKIN (born 1854 Bristol) as having Uncles who were BRIAR PIPE MANUFACTURERS.
These unusual occupations can help ,I think, when dealing with fairly common (popular) names like TAYLOR or DEAKIN. The ancestors are then easy to identify by reference to their occupation rather than having to rely on their "over popular" surnames.
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I have now found out how not to play a "brick wall" over a very long time period !!! Sometimes the "career" part of a family member is well known but the early years are not. My GG Grandfather JOSEPH DEAKIN born about 1813 ( Census average DOB) was very well documented job wise as a BELLOWS MAKER but little was known about his baptism and who his real DEAKIN parents were . About 15 years ago I put some "weak links" together in my family tree : a sort of "Mr and Mrs Deakin" parents of his , even though I knew that the 2 possibilities I used were not really married.The "Mr" was JOSEPH DEAKIN born 14 Oct 1789 Birmingham . The "Mrs" was a MARY DEAKIN born 1779 Birmingham who was said to have had an illegitimate son Joseph Deakin .Really they were just 2 possibilities that could be put together as one pair because of the illegitimacy. Temporarily I thought , she could be paired up with this "Mr Joseph Deakin" . I labelled them both as weak links but 15 years later I had forgotten about my documentation of this aspect .And so they had stayed in the tree with their weakness as possibilities forgotten as the size and complexity of the tree increased . And GED files do not know the difference between strong and weak links !!! The documentation about the weakness was hidden away and forgotten about and the size of the tree increased using these weak links . Mistakes were made including:-
1) This "father" from 1789 made a "fine uncle" for another Bellows maker - John Onions Deakin , Bellows Maker born 21 Jan 1836 Birmingham . I thought that Bellows Making was such an unusual occupation that their had to be a real link between my GG Grandfather Joseph Deakin and this John Onions Deakin also Bellows Maker . And so I assumed a close connection as they were both Deakins who were Bellow Making .Putting this "dad" in my tree opened up the possibility of a link the really important Onions Bellow making family.
2) And the tree was also extended in other ways as WILLIAM DEAKIN born 1811 Handsworth was also deemed by me to be a relative . This opened up the possibility of my Deakin side being linked to the New Zealand "whaling"DAKENS ( the surname had altered a bit by then ) and to the Deakin Mormons of Utah . It was all very interesting but the DNA evidence did not seem to bear it out and I began to do some digging .I found that if I removed this 1789 Joseph Deakin then all links to the Onions , the Dakens of NZ and the Deakins who were Mormons in Utah were also excised . So my tree has been "cut down to size" . I have realized once again that this Brick Wall is probably here to stay!