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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: stevecoe1955 on Thursday 29 June 23 09:53 BST (UK)
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Using DNA matches, I have created a tree, for a friend, who was adopted 1958. On her, scant adoption form, it notes her father as T W, aged 21, of 31, Winter Street, Horwich, near Bolton, Butcher.........Using numerous, strong DNA matches and good communication, the tree I created would suggest that my friend's 'grandparents' Frank Leonard Furnell Cleal, 1912-2000, and, Emma Louise Haskins 1913-2001, have no obvious connection to Terence Wilkinson, mentioned above. I have explored all avenues available to me......two things come to mind, the name and address he gave, could be fictitious.....T could still be living..I assume that he was born 1936/7...my friend was born in Hammersmith, West London 1958........I am in that position that DNA does not lie. DNA matches seem to agree with the Cleal and Haskins families........any suggestions would be most welcome...thanks,, Steve.
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As you say - he could still be alive - in which case his details need to be deleted from your post. Rootschat has a strict no living persons policy to protect peoples privacy
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Perhaps a way forward would be to check Electoral registers for that period & see who else lived at that address.
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CaroleW; Before your posts I notified the moderator regarding the person maybe still living.
F. L. F. Cleal married E. Haskins Jun-Sep 1933. They had one daughter P. born 1936. In 1954 she married F. A. B and they had two daughters in 1957 and 1961. Could their daughter be the mother, with T. W? If you have traced them through DNA there must be a link. An affair would explain why he was adopted.
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So the 1957 birth could be the 1958 adoption??
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There is a birth in 1958 in Rotherham of T. W mmn Porter.
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Could the couple you mention be the maternal grandparents? It doesn't seem to make sense otherwise. Unless the father named was fictitious as you suggested.
The location doesn't seem right either. The Cleal family seem to be in West London not Lancashire
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I accept the Cleal family are London based. They married and had a daughter.
What links the family, probably the daughter to T. W of near Bolton?
As I said in a previous post, there is a birth in Rotherham of T. W mmn Porter.
Is he the named father?
If the father’s name was fictitious, why give such a specific location near Bolton and being a Butcher?
There seems to be two families with the same surname combination, one in Rotherham and the other in Bury. Both had other children. In Rotherham 1958 (T. W), 1959, 1961 and 1963. In Bury 1958 and 1960.
R. W. W and J. Porter married 1956 in Bury. I have not yet found the other marriage.
ADDED: Looking at a map Rotherham might be too far away to be considered near Bolton.
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A TRW married in Bolton RD in 1961. But he may not have been born in 1936/7. But if he was there are 4 candidates, 2 from Yorkshire and 2 from north west London. Could he have been one of the London ones who moved to Lancashire soon after? Lots of ifs and buts her but could be worth investigating.
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Both Cleal parents are on the 1939 Register in Finchley, Middlesex. Their daughter of 1936 is not listed, so I assume redacted and possibly still alive.
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None of the Cleal children with their parents - evacuated? Staying with rellies away from London.?
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Thread here relating to Winter Street. Possibly a Rootschatter maybe remember the mentioned family?
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=199008.0
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None of the Cleal children with their parents - evacuated? Staying with rellies away from London.?
One child definitely with Haskins grandparents in Wales - name is redacted but her married surname inserted later can be read by the visible name of the person above
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On the 1939 Register there is also Ernest W Cleal b.1877 and Matilda b.1879 who could be parents also in Finchley. Searched England and Wales and no daughter 'P' listed.
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On the 1939 Register there is also Ernest W Cleal b.1877 and Matilda b.1879 who could be parents also in Finchley. Searched England and Wales and no daughter 'P' listed.
Matilda's maiden name was Furnell, so they are likely to be Frank's parents, given one of his forenames. You need to be looking for birth regs with surname Cleal and mother's maiden name Haskins. I find 3. The youngest seems to have died in 2010 (in her married name. there was a notice in the London Gazette in 2010, giving details of who to contact in the event of claims against her estate.
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Don't know if connected, but 1911 has William Wilkinson born 1849 and wife Elizabeth at 31 Winter Street.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWYT-GJY
10 children born only 2 still living. On electrol also has connections to Mottram street.
Cas
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On 1891 census the same couple have two sons William b abt 1874 and Thomas b abt 1880 both born Manchester. They are in Winter street but different number.
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On 1891 census the same couple have two sons William b abt 1874 and Thomas b abt 1880 both born Manchester. They are in Winter street but different number.
William (1874) married Sarah Jolly, I can find two sons William Henry 1900 and Alexander abt 1903
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I do apologise for naming a person who could still be living. I should have known better!
Thanks for all your interest, I have noted your comments and suggestions. I will look into all of them.......thanks again, Steve.
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Could the couple you mention be the maternal grandparents? It doesn't seem to make sense otherwise. Unless the father named was fictitious as you suggested.
The location doesn't seem right either. The Cleal family seem to be in West London not Lancashire
The grandparents that I have mentioned, Cleal and Haskins, appear to be on my friend's paternal side. We know her maternal ancestry. My friend has good separate DNA links with both the Cleal line and Haskins line. I am having trouble ignoring the DNA evidence....you are right, it doesn't make sense!
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From what you are saying, it does look as though your friend is connected to the Cleal/Haskins family.
Perhaps the mother was mistaken as to the identity of her child's father? Or perhaps, as it looks as though Ernest Frank and Matilda Emma's son was married (in 1956) when your friend was born, she did not wish to make matters appear even worse than they already were by naming him.
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From what you are saying, it does look as though your friend is connected to the Cleal/Haskins family.
Perhaps the mother was mistaken as to the identity of her child's father? Or perhaps, as it looks as though Ernest and Matilda's son was married (in 1956) when your friend was born, she did not wish to make matters appear even worse than they already were by naming him.
Where have Ernest and Matilda come from? I thought we were talking about Frank and Emma being possible grandparents. Or have I lost the plot ???
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Sorry, no that was me losing the plot. Have corrected my earlier post.