RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Monday 26 June 23 08:26 BST (UK)
-
Hello
I am hoping someone can help. I am trying to find the ancestors of Jeremiah Griffiths 1789-1874 of Llanelly (Five Roads area). They are proving to be elusive! The attached transcription of a newspaper article on him that I found on-line gives much more detail about Jeremiah. It says he was brought up at Clochyrie Farm, Felinfoel, so perhaps any articles on the history of this farm would be useful but I haven’t found any. May be others can? It also mentions a cousin Isaac Griffiths of Minhurtach and I have researched him as much as I can without any clues to his link to Jeremiah.
Having a copy of the original article to check details would also be useful. It states it is from the Llanelly Star 30 Aug 1990 but I have searched this edition and can’t find it. Searching for terms in the article also doesn’t provide any results. I suspect the original article was in Welsh. A WJ Griffiths, wrote several articles about Jeremiah and his descendants which were all in Welsh, so this article may have been by him and therefore in Welsh.
Hoping someone can be of help
-
I wonder, however born 20 March 1792?
On freereg.
Jeremiah GRIFFITHS Baptism 21 Mar 1792 Caernarfonshire Clynnog Fawr : St Beuno : Parish Register
Father forename Griffith
Mother forename Rachael
Father surname GRIFFITHS
Person abode Maes Mawr
Father occupation Yeoman
Colin
-
Found a couple of references in Welsh to Clochyrie/Clochyrie Fach - don't add a lot eg "Dafydd and Catherine Davies, Stepfield Row, formerly of Clochyrie Fach"; "Ann Mainwaring, Clochyrie Fach". Need to check further.
Another reference has "Jeremiah Griffiths, Brondeini". Found Brondini, Brondini Fach, Brondini Fawr north of Horeb - see south east corner of map
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/23973/page/2319
-
Burials in Horeb - Jeremiah Griffiths, Feb 3 1874, 85 years old. This is "Hen Broffwyd" Horeb, father of Mr Cornelius Griffiths, Cardiff.
A tribute/obit in the Seren Gomer very light on biographical info ie.
"died 3rd Dec 1874; baptised 1814 (not a typo), Felinfoel by Daniel Davies; father of the Rev C Griffiths, Cinderford".
-
Have you located Clochyrie on the map?
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102180014#zoom=6&lat=5286&lon=4746&layers=BT
-
This has Horeb's records with those of Adulam - available via Dyfed FHS?
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llanelli/Chapels
-
Thank you for the replies and useful link to Clochyrie on the map.
The Caernarfonshire baptism is not him. I read somewhere else that he was baptised when around 14/15 which fits in with the reference from the newspaper article you have found. From the now extinct ukgenealogy site I have a copy of the transcript of Adulam records. There is a baptism entry for a Jeremiah Griffiths on 18 Apr 1814 which fits but sadly it does not provide any other details.
You would have thought Jeremiah Griffithses would be relatively uncommon but to add to the confusion there are few of them around. I think the Jeremiah of Brondini is a different one from a different line but not sure.
-
Without checking I think the Brondeini reference was something to do with Horeb burials.
Will check later - but now sun above the yard arm somewhere in the world and mention of Felinfoel has triggered "Double Dragon" thoughts.
-
Without checking I think the Brondeini reference was something to do with Horeb burials.
Will check later - but now sun above the yard arm somewhere in the world and mention of Felinfoel has triggered "Double Dragon" thoughts.
Hi
Hope any double dragons haven’t clouded your thoughts!
If you can find out the Jeremiah Brondini reference that would be very useful as looking back through my notes I have a Jeremiah and Mary (address Brondini (or variations thereof) having children baptised in St. Elli, Llanelly (Glyn Hamlet) in 1790 (Mary) and 1792 (William) but not much else on them.
If he has links to Horeb then there may be some connection with the other Jeremiah
Regards
-
Seren Gomer, 1 Sep 1903
"Horeb was a small chapel/place of worship in the days of Isaac Griffiths, Mynhurtach**; Jeremiah Grifiths, Brondeini; Phylip Phillips, the miller and William Thomas, Trefenna..."
Separately, I had seen "Jeremiah Griffiths and his wife went to live among the Brondini Hills ...".
The Jeremiah that went to live among the Brondini hills is "Hen Broffwyd, Horeb". The Jeremiah, Brondeini, looks like a different fella.
Will follow up with a piece about Jeremiah marrying Mary Rees, son of John Rees, 1812.
** - Cousin to "Hen Broffwyd"?
-
Seren Gomer, 19 April 1889
Jeremiah Griffith's** Journey
On15 Apr 1792, in Llanelli Church, Jeremiah Griffiths and Catherine Jones were married; 13 Mar 1807 another Jeremiah Griffiths and Mary Phillips were married there and on 17 Nov 1812 the third Jeremiah Griffiths and Mary Rees were married, and they were the parents of the friend I'm referring to**
Regarding his mother**, she was the daughter of John Rees, Waungrechydd and sister to William Rees, Soho, Cornelius Rees, Ystradfai and David Rees, baptist minister in Braintree, who emigrated to Australia.... Jeremiah Griffiths and his wife went to live amongst the Brondini hills ... and named the farm Gynheidrefawr ... and some monh in 1823 a son was born to the Gynheidre family and his name was Jeremiah ...
** - Jeremiah Griffiths, son of Jeremiah Griffith "Hen Broffwyd Horeb".
Jeremiah "Hen Broffwyd" and Mary Rees' marriage is on FindMyPast - one of the witnesses is a John Rees, Mary's father?
What I find strange is that Jeremiah "Hen Broffwyd" was baptised 1814 - after the marriage.
The article in the Seren Gomer is a "toughie" to translate - will follow up later.
-
Thank you for all this excellent information. It’s a shame that the article I attached on Jeremiah does not seem to be on-line anywhere, it would be nice to have it’s provenance.
I agree that the Jeremiah of Brondini is different to the Jeremiah of Horeb, Brynygroes, Cwmgellyfechan (1879-1874). Although I have yet to prove the association between Jeremiah of Horeb and Isaac of Minhurtach I now think there is a connection between Jeremiah of Brondini and Isaac.
I have been revisiting information I have and I have never been able to fit Jeremiah of Brondini into my tree. I think I now can (working theory). I think Jeremiah of Brondini later is Jeremiah of Emlych (1760-1813). From ukgenealogy I have details of the baptisms of both their children and both were having children in the same time period (see attached). The wife of both was a Mary and there is only one Jeremiah and Mary Griffiths marriage from this time period that would fit, that to Jeremiah Griffith of Pembrey to Mary Price of Llangennech in Llangennech on 09 Nov 1787.
My theory is that they initially lived in Llanelly at Brondini where children Mary and William (1790 and 1792) were born. At some point they move to Pembrey where later children were born starting with Joshua in 1794. Although most of the Pembrey baptisms just record the father I have details of a couple which mention the mother as Mary as well. Most notably (not in attached), that of Jane born/baptised on 24 Nov 1798 to Jeremiah and Mary of Emlych. The change of address would coincide with a change in fortunes as Jeremiah of Brondini/Emlych’s father dies in 1793. His father being Joshua Griffiths 1732-1793. His father was Jeremiah Griffiths (1692-1759) i.e. grandfather of Jeremiah of Brondini/Emlych was also the grandfather of Isaac Griffiths on Minhurtach (see attached).
I think the above makes sense!
This doesn’t resolve the parentage of Jeremiah of Horeb but might provide useful information for others.
-
Seren Gomer, 1 Sep 1903
CORNELIUS GRIFFITHS - CARDIFF
Born on the smallholding Gynhendre Fawr, Llanelli Parish, February 1829. Parents were Jeremiah and Mary Griffiths
Mr Isaac Griffiths, Minhwyrach, gave land to raise a chapel on, and Horeb was raised on the land. Isaac Griffiths, Minhwyrach, Jeremiah Griffiths, Gynhendrefawr and Aaron Jenkins were chosen to be deacons.
The place names vary slightly eg Gynheidrefawr/Gynhendrefawr
The reference to "Jeremiah Griffiths, Brondeini" may be referring to Brondeini as an area rather than a specific farm/dwelling? The "Hen Broffwyd" is identified in this latest post as an early member of Horeb and of "Gynhendrefawr".
-
Jeremiah Griffiths/Emlych died 1813, Horeb was erected 1832 and the snippet I posted related to "Jeremiah Griffiths, Brondeini". As mentioned in last post I think "Jeremiah Griffiths, Brondeini" is "Jeremiah Hen Broffwyd".
Jeremiah "Hen Broffwyd" parents were Jeremiah Griffiths and Mary Rees.
Seren Gomer, 19 Apr 1889
"Mary Rees was " ... daughter to John Rees, Waungrechydd, and sister to William Rees, Soho; Cornelius Rees, Ystradfai; and David Rees, Baptist Minister in Braintree, who emigrated to Australia ..."
I see you have a previous thread which lists the above and others as children of John Rees, Wayngrychydd and Elizabeth his wife.
-
Hi
I think you have got confused by the various Jeremiah’s, or am I misunderstanding? As per the original article Jeremiah Griffiths 1789-1874 “Hen Broffwyd Horeb” married Mary Rees 1794-1866 of Waungrychydd. This Jeremiah’s parents remain unknown. The only possible hints we have is that it states he was brought up a Clochyrie farm and his “cousin” was Isaac Griffiths of Minhurtach 1773-1842 who also had a son Isaac 1811-1891 who took over Minhurtach after his father died.
As well as Cornelius they had another son Jeremiah, 1823-1886. I think this is the Jeremiah you are referring to. He also became a baptist minister and emigrated to America, dying in Ashland, Pennsylvania.
Regards
-
Roy,
You're right. I confused a generation!
I wonder if I can lay the blame on a couple of "Double Dragons".
-
Found a couple of references in Welsh to Clochyrie/Clochyrie Fach - don't add a lot eg "Dafydd and Catherine Davies, Stepfield Row, formerly of Clochyrie Fach"; "Ann Mainwaring, Clochyrie Fach". Need to check further.
Another reference has "Jeremiah Griffiths, Brondeini". Found Brondini, Brondini Fach, Brondini Fawr north of Horeb - see south east corner of map
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/23973/page/2319
Can you please update the link as this is the wrong one. Thanks
-
Can't understand link - been at the "Double Dragon" again, methinks.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102179978
Bottom right hand corner
-
Can't understand link - been at the "Double Dragon" again, methinks.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102179978
Bottom right hand corner
Thank you. Have replied to your PM, hopefully it will come through to you OK.
-
Hi. I have Jeremiah in my family tree. I think it is the same one you are searching for.