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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Daisykitkat on Friday 16 June 23 20:45 BST (UK)

Title: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Friday 16 June 23 20:45 BST (UK)

Hi
Please can anyone find a birth for a Elizabeth Perry in Belfast around 1863
Father Thomas mother Mary in order for me to complete the line up of births as I have found her 3 siblings.
Thanks

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Sinann on Friday 16 June 23 20:56 BST (UK)

Registration of births started 1864 so you’ll need to find her baptism.

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Friday 16 June 23 21:03 BST (UK)

Thankyou
Kind regards Daisy

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 17 June 23 19:58 BST (UK)

What was Mary's maiden name and what were the names & dates for the 3 siblings that you've already found?

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Saturday 17 June 23 20:35 BST (UK)

Hi
Thankyou for your reply
Mothers maiden name was Toward
Sarah Jane 10th June 1864
Margaret boyd Perry 9th January 1867
James 22nd March 1876
Father Thomas
Kind regards Daisy

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 17 June 23 20:53 BST (UK)

Also-
Thomas born 18 June 1869
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03387/2241943.pdf
Mary born 30 Sept.1871
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03277/2200916.pdf
Susan born 20 Nov.1873
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03176/2164966.pdf
Maria born 12 Apr.1878
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02968/2087441.pdf
Henrietta born 16 July 1880
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02865/2049769.pdf
William Adair born 1 Oct.1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02763/2014781.pdf

Parents married 1861 (note witnesses were called Adair which is son William's middle name) so likely Elizabeth was born before 1864. Have you had any luck finding church record for Elizabeth's baptism?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09604/5482828.pdf

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Saturday 17 June 23 21:38 BST (UK)

Hi
Thankyou so much wow 10 children poor woman . I will try to follow up on them and their lives .
I actually inherited the original wedding certificate.But  have never managed to find anything on Mary and Thomas other than the 4 children so this info is a shock and will keep me busy for a while.Thankyou again your help is appreciated
Kind regards daisy

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 17 June 23 23:34 BST (UK)

Didn't find Elizabeth but glad the other details are helpful.

Henrietta Perry died age 3-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06339/4817985.pdf
Susan Perry died 1876-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1876/020569/7217938.pdf
William Adair Perry died 1884-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06339/4817977.pdf

Maria Perry married 1898- father Thomas deceased-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10403/5788152.pdf
Father Thomas Perry died of TB 1890- his wife Mary was informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06091/4738246.pdf
Son Thomas Perry died 1913- informant his brother Thomas James- PM = Post Mortem so may be something mentioned in Belfast papers-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05329/4483437.pdf

Added- thanks to Kiltaglassan for pointing out the above error

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 17 June 23 23:41 BST (UK)

Thomas Perry buried Dundonald Cemetery in same plot as James & several other people-
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7935.8161
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=8525.8764
James' wife Thomasina-
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=8099.6111
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=4502.165

Marriage of James & Thomasina-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10212/5717129.pdf

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Sunday 18 June 23 09:29 BST (UK)

Hi
Thankyou so much for helping me I'm totally in awe of your skills at finding these people .I found Mary born 1871 she died in 1888 age 14
I just need to learn how to navigate my way around this fabulous resource which I didn't know about before
Thanyou again
Kind regards Daisy

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 18 June 23 09:32 BST (UK)

There were a few things I couldn't find last night- brothers James & Thomas Perry in 1901 and 1911 census for example.
One good thing about tracing Belfast families for this period is the addresses sometimes help location them in newspaper reports and directories.

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 18 June 23 09:45 BST (UK)

Children of James & Thomasina-

Mary Perry born 1905-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01776/1698448.pdf

Charlotte Perry born 1907-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01669/1664804.pdf

James Perry born 1909-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01605/1644600.pdf

Andrew Perry born 1911-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01512/1614379.pdf

Thomasina Perry born 1914-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01405/1577956.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01405/1577956a.pdf

Elizabeth Perry born 1916-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01330/1549351.pdf

Annie Kells Perry born 1919-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1919/01234/1513446.pdf

From the above births I was finally able to find James & Thomasina Perry in 1911 with daughters Mary & Charlotte (son James must have died young)-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ormeau/Spring_Street/217591/

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Sunday 18 June 23 11:28 BST (UK)

Hi
Thankyou so much
I've just found on the site Mary widow of Thomas she died in 1900.though her age must be a few years out on either her marriage or death other details fit in.
And looking for surname Toward on it gave me an Elizabeth Jane born 1845 who married in 1863 to Alexander Roney.this I think could be Mary's sister
Looking at Newtownards where Elizabeth gives her abode I found an interesting entry for a marriage of
Robert Adair and Elizabeth Toward in 1849 a widow and a widower I can't read the name of Elizabeth's father John ?
Could this be the mother of Mary and Elizabeth and the connection of the Adair name as in witnesses to Mary and Thomas's marriage
Looks like no housework will be done today I'm hooked on this

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 18 June 23 12:42 BST (UK)

Housework can wait  ;D

Good find on Eliza (Toward) Roney etc. and it ties in nicely to Mary (Toward) Perry. I can't make out mother Elizabeth's maiden name either.

I suspect perhaps Joseph Toward & wife Elizabeth only had the 2 daughters as widow married again in 1849. Here's a bit more-

Joseph Toward (d.bef.1849) m.(c1824-1875) Elizabeth _. She m.(1849 Newtownards) Robert Adair (c1815-1869 Newtownards dist.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1849/09376/5395944.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020637/7240487.pdf (informant- Eliza Rooney)
1877 Belfast directory- Elizabeth Adair died 90 Market St. in 1875 & daughter Eliza Rooney lived at 101 Market St.
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/mcomplete1877.htm
101. Rooney, Alex., cooper
..........Eliza Street intersects
 90. Perry, Thos., lamp lighter
1. Mary Toward (c1844-1900) m.(1861) Thomas Perry (c1844-1890)
2. Elizabeth Jane Toward (c1845-1888) m.(1863) Alexander Roney (c1842-1912), cooper
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1863/09645/5497902.pdf (father Joseph Toward, miner)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06190/4770104.pdf (informant- sister Mary Perry)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05353/4491682.pdf

more to follow shortly...

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Sunday 18 June 23 13:09 BST (UK)

Hi
Yes definitely housework can wait this is too much of a roll
Thankyou
41 Stanfield Street where Eliza dies is also where the children of Mary and Thomas died Henrietta 1880and William Adair Perry 1882

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 18 June 23 21:54 BST (UK)

Sorry for the delay but there was a steady stream of children here this afternoon for Father's Day!

A bit more on Eliza Jane (Toward) Roney-

Elizabeth Jane Toward (c1845-1888) m.(1863) Alexander Roney (c1842-1912), cooper
1. Maria Rooney (9 Sept.1864-1888)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06179/4766640.pdf (informant- aunt Mary Perry)
2. Eliza/Lizzie Rooney (1866-aft.1901) m.(1893) Thomas Reid (c1866-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03511/2291372.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10595/5859742.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ormeau/Dunvegan/1209952/ (Thomas Reid, wife Eliza, their children, Jane Roney, Charles Roney)
   a. John Reid (12 Oct.1893-aft.1901)
   b. Maria Reid (1894-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02242/1844410.pdf
   c. Agnes Reid (1896-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02164/1820276.pdf
   d. Alexander Reid (27 Feb.1898)
   e. Jane Reid (12 July 1899-aft.1901)
   f. Annie Reid (20 July 1901)
   g. David Reid (2 Nov.1902)
   h. Elizabeth Reid (20 Apr.1905)
   i. Thomas Reid (6 Oct.1907)
3. Robert Alexander Rooney (1869)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03399/2246711.pdf
4. Jane Rooney (1871) m.(1901) John Telford, sawyer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1872/2196578a.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10314/5754760.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Larne/Meadow/195519/
   a. Jane Gilliland Telford (1902 Belfast-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01914/1742224.pdf
   b. Charles Henry Telford (1903 Larne-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01853/1722326.pdf
   c. George Telford (1905 Larne-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01788/1702156.pdf
   d. Mary Alexander Telford (1906 Belfast-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01743/1688453.pdf (father’s address Larne)
   e. Maria Telford (1907 Larne-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01691/1671617.pdf
   f. Elizabeth Telford (1909 Larne-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01628/1651691.pdf
   g. Percy Seymour Telford (1911 Larne)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01543/1624811.pdf
   h. John Telford (1913 Belfast)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01433/1587823.pdf (informant Agnes Adair)
5. Joseph Rooney (1874)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03140/2151604.pdf (informant- Mary Perry)
6. William Rooney (1877-1893)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03026/2109066.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05988/4703317.pdf (informant- aunt Mary Perry)
7. Charles Rooney (1879-aft.1912), blacksmith
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02888/2058381.pdf
8. Thomas Edward Perry Rooney (1882)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02774/2018486.pdf

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: Daisykitkat on Monday 19 June 23 09:11 BST (UK)

Wow so much to explore thankyou so much
Kind regards Daisy

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aeroqueen on Monday 19 June 23 11:04 BST (UK)

hi i forgot to mention that
Elizabeth Toward when marrying Adair father Johns name was Crumlin
(with thanks to the writing translation page on this site)
Daisy

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 19 June 23 21:59 BST (UK)

Here's the deciphering thread-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=873799.0

Quote from: aeroqueen on Monday 19 June 23 11:04 BST (UK)

hi i forgot to mention that
Elizabeth Toward when marrying Adair father Johns name was Crumlin
(with thanks to the writing translation page on this site)
Daisy

There were Crumlins in Newtownards (butchers, fish dealer, etc.).

Title: Re: Perry missing birth details
Post by: aeroqueen on Tuesday 20 June 23 19:44 BST (UK)

Hi
yes i've butchers no fishmongers though and i can't get any to link for sure I did find a freeholders record for 1817 ish that says John Crumlin Drumhirk but yet again nothing concrete to link him as father of Elizabeth (Crumlin Toward) Adair.
Thankyou for taking the time to help me with all the info you gave me its reignited my desire to search for all of my missing links in the tree
kind regards Daisy