RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: aus*jen on Thursday 15 June 23 04:07 BST (UK)
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Would appreciate an explanation of the term 'in chancery' in a Sept. 1847 Tenure Book.
Could this be related to an encumbered estate?
Regards,
Jen.
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It probably means that the affairs of the immediate lessor are subject to the operations of a court.
Chancery : a record office for public archives or those of ecclesiastical, legal, or diplomatic proceedings
in chancery
chan(t)s-rē plural chanceries. : a record office for public archives or those of ecclesiastical, legal, or diplomatic proceedings., : a high court of equity in England and Wales with common-law functions and jurisdiction over causes in equity
Equity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_(law)#Equity_in_common_law_jurisdictions_(general)
Equity Its general purpose is to provide a remedy for situations where the law is not flexible enough for the usual court system to deliver a fair resolution to a case.[
I am thinking that the intermediate lessor or family may have been affected by a decision according to say land law or inheritance law and have made a case to the Court of Chancery for a hearing in equity.
So for inheritance it might have been a decision about who the beneficiaries were, how they were to be treated, who the executors were of an estate, and if Land Law a decision about the lives (terms) of a lease or conditions of the lease such as keeping land in pasture or other husbandry covenants. or perhaps the head lessor was moving against the intermediate lessor for breaches of lease covenants.
'A criticism of Chancery practice as it developed in the early medieval period was that it lacked fixed rules and that the Lord Chancellor was exercising an unbounded discretion. The counter-argument was that equity mitigated the rigour of the common law by looking to substance rather than to form.' from the Wiki article.
So going to Chancery would have been for there to another look at something with fresh eyes and dealing with 'substance'. Some actions led to decisions that were correct in terms of the law but unfair/cruel/nonsensical in outcome.
It does not mean the land was encumbered, necessarily though mortgages could have been a reason for a decision being made and then taken to Chancery.
I am not sure who the head lessor was. Sometimes there are records of their dealings with the intermediate lessors.
If you follow the land/person through to Griffiths Valuation in the 1850s you might find more details.
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Shanreagh, Thankyou for your detailed explanation I will follow through with valuation records.
I thought it may be related to an encumbered estate sold under the Encumbered
Estates Act 1848 which allowed for the sale of land burdened with debt. The person
of interest is John Jones.
regards,
Jen.
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it could well be so.
In chancery could have applied to someone not liking a term or condition, and having a lease sold out from under you, burdened or not, would certainly fit that scenario, and not getting what they thought was a good response. My point was to clarify that going to Chancery or 'in chancery' was not necessarily to do only with encumbrances on land.
I see in 1850/51 two of the bits of land leased by John Jones were still in Chancery.
But Charles Dickens also had his say on the interminable lengths of time these cases took.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarndyce_and_Jarndyce
In the north you can track the valuation books forward from Griffiths to find out ownership. Not sure about Co Tipp though.
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Thanks for your further comments Shanreagh :)
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From the Dublin Evening Post, 20 July 1850:
SALES OF INCUMBERED ESTATES IN IRELAND.
NOTICE TO CLAIMANTS AND INCUMBRANCERS.
In the Matter of the Estate of Matthew Pennefather, Owner and Petitioner.
WHEREAS by an absolute Order, bearing date the 12th of July, 1850, it was Ordered that the LANDS of Cloneyharp, otherwise Cloniharp, and its several Subdenominations of ...
[long list of names, including the neighbouring townlands of 'Cloneyharp', 'Garranmore' and 'Lisseen otherwise Lisheen']
... situate in the BARONY OF KILNEMANAGH, and COUNTY OF TIPPERARY ... should be Sold for the purpose of discharging the Incumbrances thereon.
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Gaffy that is great information, thankyou :D Your help is appreciated.
Regards,
Jen.
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No problem, from what I can see, the first sale took place in November 1851, half of the 10 lots were 'adjourned for want of bidders' and there was at least one further sale in 1852. It can be difficult to read across the names of what was being sold to the townland databases that we tend to use in our research, for in the sale notices of that era they would sometimes use the likes of alternative spellings, old/former and 'a.k.a.' townland names, names of subdivisions within townlands, and local names for land covering several townlands or parts of townlands.
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Thankyou for your further comments Gaffy :) Irish records are certainly a challenge!
Regards,
Jen.
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Hi Jen
The Jones family of Laffina Jones (A townland in the civil parish of Clogher) are buried in Clogher graveyard.
Here lieth the body of Thomas / Jones son of Morgan Jones of Laffunny who died
4 th of June / 1769 aged 18 yr s also Susanna / Jones alias Hughes who died / July y e
17 th 1780 aged 65 also / George Jones son of Morgan / Jones who died 16 th
September / 1783 aged 35 yr s / also Mrs Morgan Jones of Laffunny who dpd life
July 10 th / 1786 aged 78 yrs
Maybe the same family
P J
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Hi Merrick, That is great information thankyou :D Have no information on the Jones family I'm
looking for beyond the immediate family who settled in Holycross Tipp. Some church
records would be helpful, (CI) but so far no success in locating them. I will follow
through with your info. and see where it leads!
Regards,
Jen.
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Holycross Church of Ireland graveyard
1
In / Loving remembrance / Of / Croasdella
Frances Jones / Who died 4 th June 1905 aged 55 years
/ Dearly loved wife of / Thomas Jones / Whitefort
House, Holycross, Thurles / “Thy will be done”
2
Sacred to the memory of Thomas Little Esq who
died at Whitefort House in his parish Dec 8 th 1808
aged 68 years. This monument is erected by his
brother and sister as a last token of affection to a firm
friend a benevolent neighbour and sincere Christian.
Also Thomas Jones of Whitefort House in his parish
died April 8 th 1916 and was interred on his 77 birthday.
/ Have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction till He
come.
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Thankyou Merrick, your help is appreciated. ;D Whitefort House was the residence of John Jones
as recorded in valuation books.
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Some information for others reading-
In / Loving remembrance / Of / Croasdella
Frances Jones / Who died 4 th June 1905 aged 55 years
/ Dearly loved wife of / Thomas Jones / Whitefort
House, Holycross, Thurles
Death record link- Crosdella Frances Jones
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05593/4571997.pdf
Also Thomas Jones of Whitefort House in his parish
died April 8 th 1916 and was interred on his 77 birthday.
Death record link- Thomas Jones
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05241/4452417.pdf
Whitefort townland
https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/eliogarty/holycross/holycross/whitefort/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5475512#map=14/52.6395/-7.8801
Whitefort House
MapGenie 25 Inch in Basemap Gallery
https://arcg.is/XLea50
KG
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Kiltaglassan, Thankyou for the records and maps, very helpful. :D
Regards,
Jen.