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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ryanh315 on Saturday 03 June 23 09:17 BST (UK)

Title: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: ryanh315 on Saturday 03 June 23 09:17 BST (UK)
Hi all,

Can anyone decipher the writing under "remarks"?

many thanks!
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 03 June 23 10:26 BST (UK)
I think I can see ‘Malta’ and ‘Egmont’ in there. According to Wikipedia/HMS Egmont:

Quote
HMS Egmont, between 1904 and 1914, (ironclad, formerly HMS Achilles (1863), renamed 1904)

Fort St Angelo in Birgu, Malta (1912–1933). A stone frigate, so named when the above-mentioned HMS Achilles was used as a depot ship.
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 03 June 23 10:27 BST (UK)
Hello Ryan

Can you tell us to whom this relates and where you found the record?

It is a little blurry but I can see quite a few dates.  At the bottom after what appears to be reference numbers I can see Action in Straits of Otranto 10th July 1916.  Other words are Sapphira, Egmont and Malta.

It may be that what you have uploaded has become blurry due to cropping?  Viewing the original source may give a clearer view.

Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: Andy J2022 on Saturday 03 June 23 11:19 BST (UK)
24 . 3 -18 Granted 1st ? [possibly good conduct stripe]

??615  [HMS] Sapphire 19 . 3.16
Red’d from Manzannita (? Ships to RN Ships Malta)
18.8.16

5165 [HMS] Sapphire 31 . 8 .16 to RN
Hosp[ital] Malta 20. 8 .16
5155 [HMS] Egmont 6 .11.16 Rec’d from Hosp ( for Manzanita)
3. 11. 16
5165 [HMD] Admirable 15 . 11 . 16
Rec’d from Egmont 12. 11 .16

aw[arded] 0807 ws a
a1139811918
action in straits of Otranto 10th
July 1916


Note.

HMS Sapphire was a Topzaze Class cruiser

As noted by Alan above, HMS Egmont was a shore based establishment (‘stone frigate’) at Fort St Angelo, Birgu, Malta

HM Drifter Manzanita: hired drifter, Adty No 1038. Built 1911, 93grt, Lowestoft-reg LT.1113. In service 1.15-9.16 as net vessel. Wrecked 6.9.16 in the Adriatic.

Updated to reflect additional information found by AlanBoyd.
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: ryanh315 on Saturday 03 June 23 11:20 BST (UK)
Hi,

It related to John WATSON born in 1888 in Whitehills, Banffshire.

I have the pdf document I can upload if you want?

Is the “admissible” section an admission to hospital/injury?

Thanks!
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 03 June 23 11:31 BST (UK)
I think most of this relates to vessels involved the action known as the Otranto Blockade or Barrage in the Adriatic, in which drifters attempted to block the Austro-Hungarian Navy from entering the Mediterranean. Here is a short article at WP:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otranto_Barrage?wprov=sfti1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otranto_Barrage?wprov=sfti1)

There is a very useful thread at greatwarforum.org here:

https://tinyurl.com/32ytbz63 (https://tinyurl.com/32ytbz63)
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 03 June 23 11:33 BST (UK)
@reply 3 [name of ship] = Manzanita
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: Andy J2022 on Saturday 03 June 23 11:36 BST (UK)
Thanks Alan.
And it's not Admissable, it's HMD Admirable (https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?189102), one of the ships involved in the Otranto Blockade.
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: Andy J2022 on Saturday 03 June 23 11:49 BST (UK)
From Naval History.net (https://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritishShips-Dittmar2.htm#M):
"MANZANITA, hired drifter, Adty No 1038. Built 1911, 93grt, Lowestoft-reg LT.1113. In service 1.15-9.16 as net vessel. Wrecked 6.9.16 in the Adriatic. "
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 03 June 23 12:03 BST (UK)
from shippingandshipbuilding.uk

Manzanita 06/09/1916 wrecked on Ugenti Rocks in the Adriatic Sea.

I can’t find anything in newspapers about this wreck.
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: ryanh315 on Saturday 03 June 23 12:03 BST (UK)
Thats great, thanks!

Was John injured?

many thanks  :)
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: Andy J2022 on Saturday 03 June 23 12:22 BST (UK)
It looks like he was in hospital in Malta for about a month and a half, so yes that suggests he was injured rather than suffering some illness. I am not sure whether this was a result of the wrecking of the Manzanita, or whether he was already on board Sapphire. Since I don't think Sapphire was involved in any enemy action at that time, I think it is more likely that John was injured in the wreck of Manzanita and transferred as a casualty to Sapphire which brought him ashore for treatment. What is odd is that after being discharged from hospital to HMS Egmont, and then to Admirable (which was the ship co-ordinating the  drifters), he was shown as 'for Manzanita' although she had already been wrecked by that stage.
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: ryanh315 on Saturday 03 June 23 12:27 BST (UK)
That's great, thank you for all the help!

Best wishes
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 03 June 23 12:42 BST (UK)
The only candidate that I can find for the action on July 10 is this, as reported in many newspapers. (Note that this is not the same engagement as that discussed on the forum that I linked to previously.)

13 July 1916, East Anglian Daily Times
Quote
SUNK BY AUSTRIAN CRUISER IN THE ADRIATIC.
PRESS BUREAU, Wednesday Evening.
The Secretary of the Admiralty makes the following announcement: –Information has been received from the British Admiral in the Adriatic that on July 9th the Austrian cruiser Novara came upon a group of H. M. drifters on patrol duty.

The Astrum Spei and the Clavis were sunk and the frigates Bird and Ben Bui were damaged, but were able to return to their port. The crew of the Astrum Spei were taken prisoners, and among the remainder of the boats there were ten killed and eight wounded.

This incident is grossly exaggerated in the following German wireless message:–

"Our cruiser Novara met in the Otranto Straits with a group of four or, according to statements made unanimously by prisoners who were taken, five armed English patrol ships and destroyed them all with cannon fire.

All the steamers sank in flames, three of them after an explosion of the boilers. The Novara was only able to save nine men of their crews.

[The Novara is a new light cruiser of 3,444 tons, armed with nine 3.9in, guns.]
Title: Re: RNR SERVICE RECORDS remarks (2)
Post by: HMac on Saturday 03 June 23 14:22 BST (UK)
24 . 3 -18 Granted 1st ? [possibly good conduct stripe]

??615  [HMS] Sapphire 19 . 3.16
Red’d from Manzannita (? Ships to RN Ships Malta)
18.8.16

5165 [HMS] Sapphire 31 . 8 .16 to RN
Hosp[ital] Malta 20. 8 .16
5155 [HMS] Egmont 6 .11.16 Rec’d from Hosp ( for Manzanita)
3. 11. 16
5165 [HMD] Admirable 15 . 11 . 16
Rec’d from Egmont 12. 11 .16

aw[arded] 0807 ws a
a1139811918
action in straits of Otranto 10th
July 1916

Prior to the ship names the numerals are actually relating to a form S165 which was a monthly return of all personnel entered on, or discharged from, a ship’s books in the previous month.

Hugh