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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: lydiaann on Tuesday 30 May 23 14:42 BST (UK)
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Were there any large estates in the Dunscore area around 1800, please? Himself has a relative (4xGGF) who was noted on his son's death registration as a 'gamekeeper'.
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Not sure about an Estate but this on GENUKI might be of interest.
"DUNSCORE, a parish in the district of Nithsdale, in the county of Dumfries, Scotland, 4 miles S. of Minihive. It is situated on the river Cairn, between the rivers Urr and Nith. The Glasgow and South-Western railway passes near the E. end of the parish. Communication is also established by the road from Dumfries to Glasgow. The parish is in the presbytery and synod of Dumfries. The minister's stipend is £171, in the patronage of the crown. In the village is the parish church, a Free church, United Presbyterian church and parochial schools. Adjoining the village is Ellisland, or Friar's Carse Farm, which belonged to Burns in 1792. He is said to have founded here the first village library established in Scotland."
Colin
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Your best plan would be to look up the Statistical Accounts of Dunscore at https://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Dumfries/Dunscore and see what they say about the heritors - the principal landowners.
The other resource that might help with this question is the Valuation Rolls, whch can be consulted at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. The earliest available one is half a century later, but you should be able to get an idea of who owned what land and whether any specific person owned a large number of properties.
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Thanks for the replies.
The website you quoted, forfarian, gives a map of the area, 3 dates of 1792, 1792, and 1845 and the parish priest's names (obviously, the first 2 are the same man). It also gives a description of the boundaries of the village. Entering Friars Carse Farm (thank you for that titbit of info. CoIC!) in the Help box showed that:
"...After the Reformation, the ESTATE of Friars Carse was acquired by the Laird of Allisland or Ellisland, an adjoining farm...".
The map shows a couple of wooded areas and a loch (I don't think it's very big) so gamekeeping may have been a necessity.
It would appear that there is now a country house hotel "set in a 45-acre" estate, which maybe is the remains of a large estate way back when.
So, no sign of a 'big estate', but maybe the farmer needed a 'gamekeeper' for the land he did hold. As my rellie (Humprey Paterson 1789 - bef. 1841) was only 11 when the 18th century ended, it would seem that he probably worked there from around 1810.
I think I shall have to dig around a bit and maybe visit the village when next we visit Scotland.
But thank you, both, for your time and effort.
lydiaann
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Just a thought.
When I was tracing my D& G ancestors, I had great help from the Session Clerk of Parton Parish. I wonder if the Dunscore Parish Clerk might be able to help:
https://dunscorechurch.org.uk/contact/
Gadget
PS - They have a wealth of local historical knowledge
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The website you quoted, forfarian, gives a map of the area, 3 dates of 1792, 1792, and 1845 and the parish priest's names (obviously, the first 2 are the same man).
To see the full articles you need to click separately on each of the three different titles listed in the box at upper right. See screenshot.
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Forfarian: Duh, why didn't I think of that...to be fair, it was later in the afternoon and I'd had quite a busy day dealing with my own 'estate' so obviously wasn't thinking straight. I'll have a go in a minute, thanks for the gentle nudge - though sometimes, I seem to need a huge shove to see what's under my nose!! (and please don't hesitate if its needed ;D)
I'll also try the church website you suggested, gadget.
This 'rellie' is from Himself's family and so far he's been the only gamekeeper, most of them seemed to work on the land. I, too, have gamekeepers in Scotland in my line, but I've managed to trace their employers (with one it was easy, he just named two of his daughters after his employer's daughters, including the surname as a forename!).
Thank you both for your insight.
lydiaann
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Much later, but possibly the same estate?
4 August 1917: Dumfries and Galloway Standard
Furnished Mansion-House and Shootings
To LET, with immediate entry, for Three Months or such period as may be arranged,
THE MANSION HOUSE Of STROQUHAN, in the Parish of Dunscore and County of Dumfries, with SHOOTINGS extending to 2200 Acres.
The House, which contains Four Public Rooms, Billiard Room, Eight Bedrooms, Kitchen, Laundry, etc., etc., is very Well Furnished.
There is an excellent Garden and Greenhouses, Porter's Lodge, Gamekeeper's Cottage, Garage.
The Services of the Gamekeeper will be available.
The Mansion-House is pleasantly situated, is ten miles from Dumfries and one mile from Dunscore Station.
Rent as may be arranged.
Particulars from John Henderson & Sons, Solicitors, Dumfrles.
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That sounds interesting, Alan. I'll have to research that another day, along with the other stuff. So far, a quick look suggests it is a red sandstone house, 17th century with 18th century additions. Looking promising! Thank you.
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Well, forfarian, I've had a read of the Dunscore parish stuff. I stuck to the 1845 as it seemed more pertinent to my family. It makes interesting reading - commenting on everything from topology, through meteorology and the education of the young, but doesn't help a lot with the 'estate' I wondered about. However, The Mansion House of Stroquhan seems to be possibly what I was seeking, although the Lettings Notice does deal with a period of 100 years later. I shall gather my info. together and see what I need and then contact the Parish Clerk (which may also help with a thorny problem regarding which Agnes of 2 trees really belonged to 'my' Agnes!).
It's obviously a 'winter' riddle - I get called into the garden by my borders (please, miss, Rose here, there's a hollyhock encroaching on my personal space...) at this time of year. Again, Chatters. my deepest thanks.
lydiaann
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There are family notices relating to an Anderson family (Robert Anderson Esq.) in Stroquhan starting in ~1810 but this is the first article that I can find relating to the estate itself.
26 July 1828: Edinburgh Evening Courant
DELIGHTFUL RESIDENCE AND ESTATE OF UPPER STROQUHAN FOR SALE.
There is to be Sold by private bargain.
THE ESTATE Of UPPER STROQUHAN now called GLENESSLIN, lying in the parish of Dunscore and county of Dumfries, containing about 320 Scots acres, of which nearly 200 are arable and meadow, about 30 planted, and the remainder sound pasture.
There is a new mansion house fit for the reception of a genteel family on the property, almost surrounded and romantically sheltered with a variety of fine old wood, and, contiguous to it, a set of excellent offices.
The land, which was till lately in the occupation of the proprietor, is naturally deep and productive, and at present it is in a high state of cultivation, subdivided into well-sized fields, which are substantially inclosed, well watered, and sheltered. – There is a large quantity of old and valuable wood, besides thriving young plantations on the property.
The distance from Dumfries is about ten miles, and the roads excellent.
The property, which holds of the Crown, is let for £200 a year, on a lease that expires at Whitsunday next, and the public burdens are a mere trifle; the stipend, which can never be increased, being only £1, 6s. 6d. yearly.
For particulars apply to William Bell, Esq. W. S., Edinburgh; Gordon and Harkness, writers in Dumries; or Mr Thomas Smith, at Upper Ingliston, who will give directions for showing the lands,
Dumfries,5th July, 1828
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Found this don't know if it helps from male servants tax rolls for 1797 Stroquhan a James Moffat gamekeeper bachelor and the master is an Alexander moffat
Harrywrag
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Thanks, Harry. As the gamekeeper was a bachelor, it won't be the papa of my Humphrey Paterson (whose dad was Humphrey also). It looks as though the Moffats reigned supreme, if the gamekeeper and 'master' (that wouldn't be the owner, I don't think) were both of that name...a case of nepotism perhaps!!
It's a bit tough, this one. I think, as I said, I'll make it my 'go-to' place on our next visit to Scotland...it will be interesting to travel around the places mentioned in my records of the family and go grave-hunting once again (and this time, Himself won't be able to grumble too much as it will be HIS family we're looking for!).
I'll consider this closed now...thank you all for your usual help and guidance.
lydiaann
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Hi, As a retired Roofer from the Dunscore area, my husband worked on all the Estates, which were likely around back in the 1800s as well. Here is a list from memory: Dalgonar, Maxwelltown, Crawfordton, Speddoch, Drumpark, Stepford, Stroquhain, Loch Urr, Blackwood, Barjarg, Craigdarroch, Portrack, Cowhill, Dunesslin. That probably is not them all but hope it helps. regards,June
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Thankyou, 2Harriet. I was on holiday for the first 10 days of October and only just go round to checking this. It seems you have provided several hours' worth of 'hunt and peck' around these names. It also appears that the majority of Dumfriesshire was divided up into 'estates', there is so much to mull upon here; definitely a stay-at-home, sit by the radiator type of job. And all just for the sake of one antecedent!! Still, if I should chance upon a hit, I may be able to trace in more detail.
Thank you, again...and I hope hubby is enjoying a well-earned retirement. Being a Roofer is a hard-enough job, what it's like in NE Scotland with all that weather is difficult to imagine!!