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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: ggrocott on Friday 26 May 23 15:35 BST (UK)
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Patricia J Harding was born in Cardiff on 6th December 1926. Her brothers were Peter Charles Harding Donald Harding, Clifford Raymond Harding, who was known as Raymond, and John Harding. Patricia disappeared in Singapore or Australia in the 1950s. Her last known address was in Macleay Street, Potts Point Sydney Australia and she worked as an Air Hostess for Quantas Airlines.
I and other members of the family have made many attempts to find out what happened to her.
If anyone can find any further information it would be much appreciated.
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Were Quantas/British Embassy etc involved in any search? I find it odd that a 30yr old woman in employment goes missing abroad & there is no involvement by her family with the various authorities?
Was there a rift & she made it clear she didn’t want to be found?
You refer to her as Patricia J rather than Patricia Joan Harding. She may have decided to use her middle name
You also don’t mention that Peter Charles was her twin?
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A member of the family has apparently been in touch with Quantas fairly recently, but they do not seem to have any information. There does not appear to have been any involvement by her family at the time with the British Embassy or Quantas although in the late 1950s, according to my grandfather's diaries he visited the last known address, at the request of the family, without success. He was in Sydney for a day as he was employed on a visiting cruise ship at the time.
None of the surviving family are aware of any family rift, and are certainly not aware of any desire to cut ties. Of course after all this time it is difficult to say anything categorical. Yes, Peter Charles Harding was her twin.
She may have decided to use her middle name but the family have been unable to find her under any name.
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There is an outgoing passenger list entry for her brother Clifford R 15.8.1950 to Australia. Occ farm worker. Clearly didn’t stay there as he died in England in 2005
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Thank you, I will look further at that.
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Have just added a bit more to the bit re Clifford
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And he was back in the UK in 1956 according to the electoral register.
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Father Clifford Henry Harding b 1898 was alive when mother Irene Maude b 1900 died in 1959 as administration was granted to him
Can’t see a death for him??
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Ancestry has a transcription for him at 32 Charles Street, Hillingdon in 1965, on the original it looks like 32 Cherry Street, with Clifford R Harding and Doreen, who I seem to remember meeting as a child - the name Doreen rings a bell! He is also there in 1955 with Donald and Irene.
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I guess this could be his death
Name
Henry C Harding
Birth
abt 1897
Death
Jul 1959 Ealing, Middlesex, England
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This marriage could be worth looking into??
20334/1953
ROUBIN GENE JACK
HARDING PATRICIA JOAN
SYDNEY
Ryerson index
ROUBIN Gene Jack Probate notice 18MAY1996 Publication late of Mount Tamborine, Qld Gold Coast Bulletin 18MAY1996
Electoral roll ... i don't have full access to get further info.
Patricia Joan Roubin 1972 city, North Sydney, New South Wales
Gene Jack Roubin 1972 city, North Sydney, New South Wales
Gene Jack Roubin 1980 city, Fadden, Queensland
Still trying to find something to confirm is this Patricia is the one you are looking for or not.
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Ooh,thank you, certainly a possibility
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There are a few mentions of Gene in Trove, some mention Singapore.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/advanced/category/newspapers?keyword.phrase=gene%20ROUBIN
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FindMyPast passenger lists
Mrs P J Roubin, born 6 Dec 1926, sailed for Sydney with hubby and daughter on 3 March 1955 aboard the Oronsay
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That would tie in very nicely with the lady I am looking for as I know her twin was born 6 Dec 1926. Thank you so much.
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There are a few records in National Archives australia for Gene, one is digitised and has a photo of him.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/BasicSearch.aspx
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Thank you, as you can see I am not very experienced with Australian records!
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I have just found her, hubby and daughter in outward bound passengers from the UK in 1955 too and arriving in the UK in 1954 - pity it just gives an initial for the daughter.
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Most recent electoral roll
1980
Gene Jack and Patricia Joan ROUBIN living at Beaudesert Rd Mt Tamborine Queensland
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Thank you.
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QLD state archives has a probate file for Gene. Not sure if it would contain if he was a widow or if it would mention kids names.
ROUBIN, GENE JACK - Probate
Dates: 01/01/1996 - 31/12/1996
Format: 1 Physical representation(s)
Agency Control Number: 4776/96
This record is not online, only the index so would have to be ordered and paid for.
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Ryerson index
ROUBIN Gene Jack Probate notice 18MAY1996 Publication late of Mount Tamborine, Qld Gold Coast Bulletin 18MAY1996
You can request a look up for the above notice on the link below [free]
https://www.ryersonindex.org/
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I guess this could be his death
Name
Henry C Harding
Birth
abt 1897
Death
Jul 1959 Ealing, Middlesex, England
Just above Irene Maude's probate entry is one for Henry Christian Harding 10 Churchfield Rd London W13
Births Jun 1897
Harding Henry Christian Brentford 3a 147
In the absence of a death reg for Clifford snr I wondered if he had gone to Australia
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The Trove results indicate that this book is about the same Gene Roubin
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/36290304
'...an unexpected meeting provides Gene with an opportunity to start a new life in Singapore'
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Hello ggrowcott
Just further to the the last posting by matthewj64 ... I have further information for you re: child (or children) of Patricia HARDING (ROUBIN).
Because these persons are possibly still living, I will send information to you via the PM facility here,
~ Lu
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About Gene ROUBIN’s first marriage and its break down.
Mrs Vreeland met him in 1945.
She gained her US divorce and married him in1948.
Her application for restitution 1952.
With a picture
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/167977635
Sue
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Information re: child of Patricia ROUBIN (nee HARDING) has now been sent via PM to ggrocott.
Includes a link which may be of assistance in contacting this child. ;)
~ Lu
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Gene ROUBIN .... an earlier marriage (before 1945) ???
Death notice for Judy (Girlie) ROUBIN - November 1945 - in Nairobi, Kenya :
Loving wife of Gene ROUBIN (Sydney) .
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/44832361?searchTerm=gene%20ROUBIN
~ Lu
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Gene ROUBIN .... an earlier marriage (before 1945) ???
Death notice for Judy (Girlie) ROUBIN - November 1945 - in Nairobi, Kenya :
Loving wife of Gene ROUBIN (Sydney) .
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/44832361?searchTerm=gene%20ROUBIN
~ Lu
MMmm..
Well, Mrs VREELAND had met Gene in early 1945 in Singapore and it looks like perhaps Girlie was not with him at that time and died during his absence.
Sue
ADDING.
Taisa, the mother of Gene who shared his “castaway” experience applied for naturalisation in 1946, while living at Kings Cross. Born Leningrad
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/27919294
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Headstone Elaine Patricia ROUBIN. Mentions others, but their full parentage is not clear .
Sue
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Headstone Elaine Patricia ROUBIN. Mentions others, but their full parentage is not clear .
Sue
Who is this Elaine Patricia ??? Where Buried ???
[ Don't think she is connected to Gene ROUBIN family : ]
Added: Not important in the scheme of things as they relate to Gene ROUBIN, but I've located information for the family of "Judy (Girlie)" ROUBIN and her JOHNSTON family. Marriage to ROUBIN - record not yet found.
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Headstone Elaine Patricia ROUBIN. Mentions others, but their full parentage is not clear .
Sue
Who is this Elaine Patricia ??? Where Buried ???
[ Don't think she is connected to Gene ROUBIN family : ]
I assume she is the "middle" wife Elaine Patricia formerly VREELAND per Reply#25
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/167977635
Sue
PS Interred In Victoria . Darraweit Guim .The Macedon Ranges.
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ooops ... got it Sue ... didn't pay much attention to her christian names earlier ... just the unusual VREELAND bit. So yes, she's the "middle" wife. :-[ ;D
~ Lu
Added: Can't see mention of any children of the VREELAND-ROUBIN union in divorce artlcle ??
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With there being 2 previous marriages for Gene, it would be interesting to know whether there are half-siblings to the offspring of Patricia Joan (nee HARDING).
Elaine Patricia (nee FRANCIS) formerly VREELAND, formerly ROUBIN and then, apparently, also formerly DAEHLI may have had children from any or all of these unions.
7237/1955
DAEHLI Bjorn
ROUBIN Elaine Patricia
SYDNEY
Sue
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Elaine Patricia (nee FRANCIS) formerly VREELAND, formerly ROUBIN and then, apparently, also formerly DAEHLI may have had children from any or all of these unions.
7237/1955
DAEHLI Bjorn
ROUBIN Elaine Patricia
SYDNEY
Sue
Just noticed - one of the named daughters on headstone of Elaine Patricia ROUBIN - appears on an electoral roll (NSW) 1972, sharing an address with her mother (she's also surname ROUBIN). ???
~ Lu
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I don't think any of these hits in the Singapore Newspapers advance matters, but interesting nevertheless
https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/Digitised/Search?ST=1&AT=search&k=%27gene%20roubin%27
the wife "Judy" was with him in 1941, but married AFTER 25th December 1939
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Just noticed - one of the named daughters on headstone of Elaine Patricia ROUBIN - appears on an electoral roll (NSW) 1972, sharing an address with her mother (she's also surname ROUBIN). ???
~ Lu
Both married in that name too.
Sue
ADDING
By way of confirmation, Both offspring were born within the period of the marriage to Gene ROUBIN according to some travel documents I have located which show birth dates.
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New Zealand newspapers
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EG19420428.2.14?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=roubin&snippet=true
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WC19350504.2.53?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=roubin&snippet=true
No given name for Roubin in link 2 but reference to salvage a strong pointer to Gene Roubin. Describes Roubin as German - elsewhere have seen him described as Russian.
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Hi
He and his mother were definitely Russian but I think it's just a slip up inthe reporting of the time that has him as German.
An adventurous life. ;D
Sue
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Hong Kong newspapers -
End column - "Obituary"
https://mmis.hkpl.gov.hk/coverpage/-/coverpage/view?_coverpage_WAR_mmisportalportlet_hsf=roubin&_coverpage_WAR_mmisportalportlet_actual_q=%28%20verbatim_dc.collection%3A%28%22Old%5C%20HK%5C%20Newspapers%22%29%20%29%20AND+%28%20%28%20allTermsMandatory%3A%28true%29%20OR+all_dc.title%3A%28roubin%29%20OR+all_dc.creator%3A%28roubin%29%20OR+all_dc.contributor%3A%28roubin%29%20OR+all_dc.subject%3A%28roubin%29%20OR+fulltext%3A%28roubin%29%20OR+all_dc.description%3A%28roubin%29%20%29%20%29&_coverpage_WAR_mmisportalportlet_sort_field=score&p_r_p_-1078056564_c=QF757YsWv5%2BsPW2AoTJX4yTfWrkWZAOJ&_coverpage_WAR_mmisportalportlet_o=0&_coverpage_WAR_mmisportalportlet_sort_order=desc
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This is the "castaway" story with Gene and his mother where they ended up in WA.
Perhaps the chap in the Hong Kong 1932 item is a relative or even his father.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/75889566
Sue
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Thank you all, the information has been passed on to Patricia's neice.
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This is the "castaway" story with Gene and his mother where they ended up in WA.
Perhaps the chap in the Hong Kong 1932 item is a relative or even his father.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/75889566
Sue
Father I was thinking - Gene's 2nd given name Jack?
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I don't think any of these hits in the Singapore Newspapers advance matters, but interesting nevertheless
https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/Digitised/Search?ST=1&AT=search&k=%27gene%20roubin%27
Yes, some interesting info there, mckha.
And from the link you provided above > "The Strait Times" - 5 March 1947 -- Gene Jack ROUBIN - advice of intention to apply to the Governor of the Colony of Singapore, for naturalisation ...
But this too, from Australia > September 1945 ???
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248026415?searchTerm=gene%20ROUBIN
... Intention to apply for naturalisation -- Gene Jack ROUBIN - stateless, but formerly Russian nationality - born Stalingrad ...
~ Lu
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Thank you everybody, we seem to have solved a long standing family mystery and Patricia's niece is very grateful.
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I have been wondering, out of curiosity… ;D, Did she not visit family on that 1954/1955 trip?
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As far as living relatives are aware she didn't visit family during that trip, but we cannot be sure. :-( There is certainly no record of it in surviving documents and no mention of a wedding or photographs in any family papers.
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Families! They are so fascinating.
I hope the niece is able to make contact with the cousins.
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I echo what mckha has said above ^ . ;)
This is such an interesting "story" ... so far. ;D
And, as always, we'd love to learn at a future date, if the cousins were able to be reunited. :)
~ Lu
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Hi,
You might be interested to read a more detailed immigration record for Clifford Raymond HARDING when he came to Australia in 1950 .
Although he arrived in NSW, having been apprenticed as a plumber in England , it was his hope to go to Queensland and be a cattle drover.
He was a "Ten Pound Pom" so assisted by the government with terms and conditions to be met.
No mention of any relatives.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SessionTimeOut.aspx
Search as a guest.
Name Search> type Clifford Harding.
Sue
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Thank you all.
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Just to let you know apparently the cousins have been in contact. It appears that Patricia may have had issues with her mother and that this led to an estrangement.
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Hi
Thanks for letting us know the outcome. ;)
It's always great to learn of a happy ending. :)
~ Lu