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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:00 BST (UK)

Title: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:00 BST (UK)
Dear all,

Please help with this label. Last post messed up as I couldn’t upload the image. It’s on the back to a portrait of William III.

Joshua
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 13 May 23 13:11 BST (UK)
Judging by the dates of the artist, Michael [can’t read] 1567-1641 this is actually a portrait of Philip William, Prince of Orange born 1554.
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:13 BST (UK)
Hi yes the artist attribution is wrong, but so odd it makes me wonder whether there is some meaning to it. However I’m most interested in last line which may indicate an owner, a baron something?
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 13 May 23 13:14 BST (UK)
It's Michiel van Miereveld.

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/artists/michiel-van-miereveld (https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/artists/michiel-van-miereveld)
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: ciderdrinker on Saturday 13 May 23 13:16 BST (UK)
Hi
Michael (van) Miereveld delft 1567-1641 Delft
Portrait of Prince Phillipe William  of Orange

(So not William III but Philip William of Orange 1554- 1618  son of William the Silent and his first wife.So William III's great uncle). William III wasn't born until 1650.

There was a famous art collector Baron De Rede
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_von_Rosenberg,_Baron_de_Redé

Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:21 BST (UK)
The artist and sitter attribution is wrong, as it is clearly of William III and after a portrait by Wissing in the Royal Collection. However, the last line may indicate a previous owner, a Baron something?

Thanks,
Joshua
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: Ili1133 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:32 BST (UK)
Baron Rede van Autshoor(e) van Utrecht? The last word is difficult to decipher but starts ‘Ut…’

Googling the name including Utrecht suggests Baron Van Reede van Oudtshoorne (1714-73) an early Governor designate of Cape Colony

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_van_Reede_van_Oudtshoorn

I’m afraid I don’t know much about changes in early Dutch spelling.
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:35 BST (UK)
Fascinating, thank you. Here is another image I’ve clipped for size where it leads on to the frame if that helps. J
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:37 BST (UK)
It looks like the first two letters of the last word, slightly rubbed out, may not start with a U
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:39 BST (UK)
Yes from the wiki there would appear to be a Williamite connexion somewhere in the family:
"The van Rheedes are one of the old families of Europe, descending from Bitter Van Reede, mentioned between 1344 and 1372, who himself was probably descendent of Wernerus de Rethe, knight, mentioned between 1223 and 1236. Godard VAN Reede (10th generation) accompanied William III of Orange to England and became Earl of Athlone on 14th March 1691 (branch extinct 7 Jan 1897). Another branch, Van Reede de Parkeren en Aa, became extinct in 1879. The Van R(h)eede van Oudsthoorns are, therefore, the only surviving branch of the family, both in the Netherlands and in South Africa. Van Ooudsthoorn was added to the original surname of Van Reede because for a period they were squires of that village in Holland
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 13 May 23 13:45 BST (UK)
I saw the last word as Utrecht, would that fit?
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: Ili1133 on Saturday 13 May 23 13:54 BST (UK)
Looks promising.

I also see Utrecht, Alan. If you don’t see ‘Ut…’ as the beginning of the last word, what would you say artlover123?

To support the idea, if you compare the first letter of the word ‘…dtshoor..’ with the ‘O’ in Orange, they could be the same, just linked in different ways because of the following letters.
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 14:01 BST (UK)
Yes I think you’re right! Thank you both so much for your help.
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: artlover123 on Saturday 13 May 23 14:02 BST (UK)
What do the first two words before Baron mean, by the way please? Goodness I really must get better at this!
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 13 May 23 14:04 BST (UK)
“Collection of” ?
Title: Re: Label reading
Post by: shanreagh on Saturday 13 May 23 14:08 BST (UK)
Perhaps 'Collection of....

https://m.interglot.com/nl/en/collectie

Dutch to English

collectie, de ~ (v) (assortimentkeuzekeursortering)
assortment, the ~ Noun
selection, the ~ Noun
collectie, de ~ (v) (museumcollectie)
museum collection, the ~ Noun
collectie, de ~ (v)
collection, the ~ Noun
‐ An object that contains a set of related objects. An object's position in the collection can change whenever a change occurs in the collection; therefore, the position of any specific object in a collection may vary.
collectie, de ~ (v)
collection, the ~ Noun
‐ A container for organizing clips.