RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: littleem1906 on Friday 12 May 23 19:21 BST (UK)
-
I'm looking into the mother of ELIZABETH ONIONS (1847-1906),who was born in Birmingham.
Elizabeth appears in the 1871 census with her husband Charles Edward Roath in 1871. In 1881 and 1891 she lives with some of her children (as her husband was living with another woman). I've not found her in 1901, and she died in 1906.
I know from Elizabeth's marriage record (from 1868) that her father's name was SAMUEL ONIONS and his occupation was listed as 'servant'. According to GRO, Elizabeth's mother's maiden name was HUGHES.
When looking for Elizabeth prior to 1871, I found an Elizabeth Onions in the 1851 and 1861 census living with a PRISCILLA RICHARDS (listed as mother). If this is my Elizabeth, this would be plausible, as her father Samuel Onions had died in 1850.
I thought if this was my Elizabeth it could be possible that Priscilla re-married to JOHN RICHARDS. However, on the marriage Banns, Priscilla lists herself as Priscilla Onions - Spinster - and her father's name is listed and Samuel Onions (ivory turner). Therefore my theory seems to not hold water.
However, when looking at the children Priscilla had with John Richards, all on GRO are listed as having mother's maiden name HUGHES. Why then did Priscilla say her father was Samuel Onions on her marriage certificate?
I have a feeling this one will require a birth certificate for Elizabeth to confirm her mother's name, but is Priscilla plausible? I can find no marriage between Samuel Onions and Priscilla Hughes.
-
Recheck Priscilla's surname on the 1851 Census.-
-
Ah yes. Sorry, in my haste I'd not spotted this. Still doesn't explain why Priscilla didn't give her father's name at time of new marriage to John Richards. She had 'Samuel Onions' listed, but her maiden name was Hughes. Could it be she never knew her father? Or was perhaps trying to pass herself off as a spinster and not a widow?
-
There was a second Onions birth mother Hughes, maybe related given the name. However no registration of marriage for those names?
ONIONS, ELIZABETH HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 328
ONIONS, SAMUEL HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 389
Colin
-
Yes I spotted this. Sadly Samuel also died not long after. So Priscilla lost both her husband and son in the same year.
-
ONIONS, SAMUEL 36
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 244
ONIONS, SAMUEL 0
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 267
Colin
-
Son Samuel was buried St Phillip's Birmingham 30 December 1850 aged 7 weeks son of Samuel and Priscilla address Moor Street.
Ref: ancestry image
-
I wonder, Northfield became part of Birmingham in 1911.
Priscilla HUGHES Born 1 Jun 1827 Baptism 29 Jul 1827 Worcestershire Northfield : St Laurence : Parish Register Father forename William Mother forename Hannah
Person abode Northfield
Father occupation Nailor
Colin
-
Maybe not the above?
1881 - 10, Rose Terrace, Birmingham, Warwickshire
John Richards Head Married Male 57 1824 Stoker in tube works -
Priscilla Richards Wife Married Female 60 1821 - Birmingham, Warwickshire
Albert Richards Son Single Male 16 1865 Wood turner Birmingham, Warwickshire
Elizabeth Noath Grand daughter 13 1868 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire
RICHARDS, PRISCILLA 61
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 21
Burial Key Hill cemetery 28839 KH G 12
Colin
-
Something to look into - thank you!
-
Looking at the 1861 census below, the birth in Northfield seems a possiblity despite the 1871 also below.
1861
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7JK-JFR
1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDDW-ZTW
Colin
-
Is the birth in Northfield not 1827 and not 1820/21?
-
The record on freereg is birth & baptism 1827, however death & census 1820/21.
Most census returns shows birth as Birmingham except the 1861 which is Worcestershire, at that time dates were not so important as today, so maybe when asked the question she was wrong.
Northfield is about 6 miles south west of Birmingham.
Colin
-
I note the baptism OPR is on Ancestry, maybe someone could check, my membership has expired.
Colin
-
" In 1881 and 1891 she lives with some of her children "
What names and ages for the children living with her?
What names and ages for children not living with her? Where are they?
What other information do you see on the marriage certificate?
What names for witnesses? What church are they married in? Any addresses?
-
Son Samuel was buried St Phillip's Birmingham 30 December 1850 aged 7 weeks son of Samuel and Priscilla address Moor Street.
Ref: ancestry image
FindMyPast burials
Samuel Onions, age 36 (b. circa 1814), 15 May 1850, cemetery - Parish of St Philip
1841 Census - at the moment only found a Samuel Onions, age 25, occpn. Groom, not born in County. He's in Woodsides Township, Shifnal Parish.
"Groom" falls in the category of servant. Yet to spot this Samuel in 1851.
-
FindMyPast baptisms (image/transcript)
Samuel Onions, base son of Elizabeth Onions, bap 20 Nov 1814, place Weston, Parish of Weston under Lizard (Stafford). This is within spitting distance of Shifnal.
So, how to (a) rule him out or, better still (b) establish link to Priscilla?
Note that naming "convention" links his mother to Priscilla's daughter.
-
Doesn't a death cert include "Occupation" - tho' no guarantee it will be completed/entered?
-
FindMyPast baptisms (image/transcript)
Samuel Onions, base son of Elizabeth Onions, bap 20 Nov 1814, place Weston, Parish of Weston under Lizard (Stafford). This is within spitting distance of Shifnal.
So, how to (a) rule him out or, better still (b) establish link to Priscilla?
Note that naming "convention" links his mother to Priscilla's daughter.
This is great - thank you!
I wonder if Samuel and Priscilla never actually married, despite her being listed as a widow in 1851. I wonder if it's also possible that she did not know her father, hence using the name Samuel Onions.
-
I'm coming back to this person to tie up some loose ends.
The Priscilla Hughes baptised in 1827 was an interesting possibility, despite the age not tallying with the age given on census. However, is it likely that the Priscilla Hughes born in 1827 married William Hancocks in Worcester in 1846? She is listed as a minor, and father's name William Hughes (a nailer). Was age 19 classed as a minor?
The baptism record is interesting because the date of birth is listed, when the majority of others on the page (and many other pages in that record) do not have this listed. Could the 'Born 1st June 1827' actually be 'Born 1st June 1821'? I've looked at it but it does still look a little like a 7. Which doesn't fully explain why the birth date would need to be listed.
I had got Priscilla in the 1841 census (given to me by someone else - I've not actually seen the census image) as follows:
Navigation Street, Birmingham
Willm Richards, 43 - Shop Keeper, Warwickshire
Mary Richards, 40 - Warwickshire
Sarah Richards, 7 - Warwickshire
Susana Richards, 3 - Warwickshire
Eliza Richards, 1 - Warwickshire
Prisc Hughes, 20 - Warwickshire
It's interesting because Priscilla later married a John Richards, though his father was James Richards.
I've also found today another Priscilla Hughes (spelt Precella) in 1841 in Birmingham as follows:
New Canal St, Birmingham
Charles Hughes 20 - shoe maker
Precella Hughes 20
Catherine Hughes 1
Edwards Letts 20 - show maker (not born in county)
All Hughes's born in county.
Assuming Priscilla and Charles are married and Catherine is their daughter, I looked for them in 1851. No sign of them.
I did find their daughter's baptism though - Catherine Priscilla Hughes born 26 Jul 1840 and baptised 19 Jan 1841. There are no other children of this couple that I have found.
Any ideas if the Priscilla in Birmingham in 1841 (with Charles Hughes and daughter Catherine) could be mine? I know my Priscilla had her first child (Elizabeth Onions) in 1847 with Samuel Onions (who she appears to have never married). I think IF I could find out more information about this family it would at least help to rule them out.
Or is my Priscilla the one living with the Richards family in 1841? If so, is that family somehow connected to the man she would later marry - John Richards (father James).
-
You have been advised of 1850 deaths, Brum, for 2 Samuel Onions (ages 36 and 7 weeks). Have you obtained either to identify who reported the death?
-
Yes, the child Samuel Onions's death was reported by a Catherine Yates of 8 Court Moor Street. She is presumably a neighbour. The father, Samuel Onions's death was informed by a surgeon of Queen's Hospital.
-
Thanks for clarifying