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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Wulfsige on Saturday 06 May 23 08:23 BST (UK)

Title: ag labs
Post by: Wulfsige on Saturday 06 May 23 08:23 BST (UK)
I am amazed at how often, and how far, my ag lab forebears, and those of my friend and of my wife, moved - not to join the new iron and coal industry in Wales, but simply to work as ag labs on different farms, often in different counties. Can anyone on the forum (a) offer an explanation, and/or (b) suggest a good book on the life of ag labs from, say 1500-1850?
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Fisherman on Saturday 06 May 23 11:43 BST (UK)
Hi,
This book might be of interest to you.

My Ancestor Was An Agricultural Labourer by Ian Waller.
It's had a couple of good reviews.

Fisherman
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 06 May 23 12:15 BST (UK)


Google....."hiring fairs".....might find something of use to you.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Wulfsige on Saturday 06 May 23 12:25 BST (UK)
Thank you. Good suggestions, to be followed up
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: coombs on Saturday 06 May 23 12:39 BST (UK)
One of my Berkshire ag lab ancestors moved from West Berkshire to East Berkshire in about 1745. His ancestors came from Wiltshire. Shows how you may have to consider such movements when trying to trace ag lab ancestors or any ones as people were very mobile.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Wulfsige on Saturday 06 May 23 17:13 BST (UK)
...and mine went from Wiltshire to Somerset. Interesting.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Erato on Saturday 06 May 23 17:36 BST (UK)
"from West Berkshire to East Berkshire"

That's what?  50 miles?
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: coombs on Saturday 06 May 23 18:13 BST (UK)
"from West Berkshire to East Berkshire"

That's what?  50 miles?

Still a fair distance, you cannot compare the duration of travelling in 1750 to today. People were more mobile than you think as I said, but it was still a journey, on land on dusty roads by horse and cart.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Rena on Saturday 06 May 23 19:14 BST (UK)
There are two types of farming :

(a) pastoral (rearing animals for food such as cattle, sheep and pigs ,
 
(b) arable (growing crops, including cereals such as wheat, and barley, oilseed rape, peas and beans, sugar beet and potatoes. )

If an ancestor worked on a Duke's estate (for example) he might have travelled quite some distances to work on his employer's farms, especially moving when needed for spring lambing, or moving in autumn for harvesting before the rains came.

When I was young I lived in a farming village and remember one year when my then boyfriend had been working long hours through the night for his farmer employer gathering in the crops and then was sent forty miles northward, where he stayed for three weeks,  to assist another farmer gather in his crops.

When my late OH was young in the 1950s he knew two old Irish farmhands in their 70s, who lived in Ireland with their families during the winter months and then travelled to England travelling across the land assisting with seasonal work.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: coombs on Sunday 07 May 23 13:24 BST (UK)
During lambing times and spring harvests, a single ag lab may have met a single woman while working 40 or 50 miles from where he usually worked, and took her back to where he usually lived.

Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Wulfsige on Sunday 07 May 23 14:03 BST (UK)
It would seem then, from some of the above, that a comparison of the actual date of the decennial census with the time of the farming year might be required to enable a sensible guess.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: coombs on Sunday 07 May 23 15:54 BST (UK)
By the 1840s trains were becoming more popular so some ag labs probably travelled on trains to help out at other farms a distance away. Not sure how expensive they were though back then.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 May 23 16:01 BST (UK)
Hiring fairs -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiring_and_mop_fairs
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 May 23 16:09 BST (UK)
I was also told by a historian that indoor staff were recruited a good distance from the location where they would be working - so they couldn't just "up and leave".  The attached is the 1871 census entry for Oulton Hall staff in Little Budworth, Cheshire.  The only local person was the Usher who was born in Tarporley, just a few miles away.



Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 May 23 16:22 BST (UK)
And the 1901 for the same property -

Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Rena on Sunday 07 May 23 16:34 BST (UK)
During lambing times and spring harvests, a single ag lab may have met a single woman while working 40 or 50 miles from where he usually worked, and took her back to where he usually lived.

I have found when that happens, the bride will return to her mother's home for the birth of her first baby.  The babies that follow are usually born in the area where the father works.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: coombs on Sunday 07 May 23 16:54 BST (UK)
I was also told by a historian that indoor staff were recruited a good distance from the location where they would be working - so they couldn't just "up and leave".  The attached is the 1871 census entry for Oulton Hall staff in Little Budworth, Cheshire.  The only local person was the Usher who was born in Tarporley, just a few miles away.

Yes that was true, my great gran from Oxford worked in service in Bexhill, Sussex in the 1911 census. Several train rides from Oxford away. Although she lived in a Hackney convent for a while beforehand as she train for domestic service.

My ag lab ancestor was had up in 1886 for not providing enough for his wife and children and he said he had to "go away to find work".


Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Wulfsige on Sunday 07 May 23 17:25 BST (UK)
I can understand the long moves of people 'in service', like my grandmother from Perthshire being employed in Kensington, and my grandfather, from Norfolk, a groom with horses, being in Cornwall in one census; it's the ag labs that puzzle me, that is, ones who continue as ag labs but miles away - though there are clues to follow up in what is written above.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: coombs on Monday 08 May 23 12:32 BST (UK)
I think it was hiring fairs, and some ag labs just went where there was more work available or better wages. Or word of mouth, a friend or relative knew of labouring work in another county.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Monday 08 May 23 23:15 BST (UK)
By the 1840s trains were becoming more popular so some ag labs probably travelled on trains to help out at other farms a distance away. Not sure how expensive they were though back then.
Many ag-labs were hired every autumn and didn't move far, but those that had to travel most likely went on the tramp.  The railway network was still fairly sparse in 1841, and I would guess that any ag-lab with a family would prefer to avoid buying several tickets when looking for employment.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Gillg on Wednesday 10 May 23 12:29 BST (UK)
There are two types of farming :

(a) pastoral (rearing animals for food such as cattle, sheep and pigs ,
 
(b) arable (growing crops, including cereals such as wheat, and barley, oilseed rape, peas and beans, sugar beet and potatoes. )

If an ancestor worked on a Duke's estate (for example) he might have travelled quite some distances to work on his employer's farms, especially moving when needed for spring lambing, or moving in autumn for harvesting before the rains came.

When I was young I lived in a farming village and remember one year when my then boyfriend had been working long hours through the night for his farmer employer gathering in the crops and then was sent forty miles northward, where he stayed for three weeks,  to assist another farmer gather in his crops.

When my late OH was young in the 1950s he knew two old Irish farmhands in their 70s, who lived in Ireland with their families during the winter months and then travelled to England travelling across the land assisting with seasonal work.

If you've read Alison Uttley's semi-autobiographical novel "The Country Child" about a Derbyshire farmer's young daughter, it records the different workmen/labourers visiting the farm throughout the year - hedgers and ditchers in the Spring, the "Moldy Warp" man (mole catcher) and the Irishmen who came across to England to bring in the harvest every year.  Ag Labs  with a special skill moved around all the time.  Even those not so skilled were moved around as required by their employers.
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 10 May 23 13:38 BST (UK)
https://socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/hasbach/AgrLab.pdf
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 10 May 23 14:51 BST (UK)
Tracing Your Rural Ancestors: A Guide for Family Historians by Jonathan Brown (comes up on many sites)

https://www.countryfile.com/how-to/family-tree/     (came up on Google and looks as if it could help)
Title: Re: ag labs
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 10 May 23 23:01 BST (UK)
My maternal grandmother's line  worked in the pottery industry and resided in the West Riding of Yorkshire.  It became noticeable from later West Riding Yorkshire census that many men had been born in Derbyshire.

The reason for the movement was that coal had been found in the area where my ancestors lived and the wages in Yorkshire were far higher than the wages that the Derbyshire miners received - hence the move over the county boundaries..

As regards a Hereford family being found in London - Hereford cattle are quite famous and would have brought a good price in the London cattle market.  This was held in the Smithfield Market but later removed to Islington