RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: callyj06 on Friday 28 April 23 15:46 BST (UK)
-
How can I tell which name is correct for a family that used alias's? My 2 x Gt. Grandparents were married in 1835, she with the surname Stone, which I can trace back for two or more generations but his surname on the parish register was Gourdon. Their first child was baptised with the surname Gordan in 1836 followed by 8 more, 5 with the surname Jordan, 1 with the name Copp and the last two (who were twins) as Jordan alias Copp. On all census returns, the family's surname is Copp and in adult life all the children that I can find have gone by that name. I'm puzzled and can't get any further back with my 2 x Gt. Grandfather until I can find the correct surname. Any help much appreciated.
-
I always go to the name given for Baptism, as that is the Registered Name.
In my FAMILY there was an Alias used, which was SHEPPARD, but it turns out to be a work related name from what I'm learning of the early days of my family around the early1500's. Not all that long after that time this name doesn't seem to appear. I would guess it's because of the change in employment, the family moved into0 the dairy industry.
-
Thanks Geoff. My 2 x GG was a Cooper by profession, so could be that although I'm fairly sure his M-i-L's maiden name was Copp so perhaps they took her name for some reason. But why???? Very puzzling. I shall have to concentrate on the Jordan title to see where that takes me. Thanks again.
-
Welcome to RootsChat. Could you please confirm that this is the family you refer to in your opening post?
John GOURDAN married Charlotte STONE 19 July 1835 Tiverton, Devon
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M3-ZH59
both sojouners in the parish, both signed
witnesses were John JOPP and E SHORLANDE
Children baptisms in Willand Devon
Owen Gordan 1836
George Jordan 1838
John Fergus Jordan 1841
Thirza Jordan 1844
Ellen Jordan 1847
Emma 1850
Clara Copp 1854
William 1856 Jordan alias Copp
Charlotte 1856 Jordan alias Copp
1841 and 1851 and 1861 census the family is using the name COPP
You are looking for John COPP born Halberton 1810-1812
-
Yes, that's them. I'm very attached to this branch - really want to find out about John Jordan or Copp.
-
Not sure John was really born in Halberton either!
-
JOHN Jordan Baptism 5 February 1812, Halberton, Devon
Mother ELIZABETH Jordan
Trish :)
-
JOHN Jordan Baptism 5 February 1812, Halberton, Devon
Mother ELIZABETH Jordan
Trish :)
The birth date is 1804, though :-\
-
Am I looking at the wrong John then?
I thought he married Charlotte.
1851 Census
John Copp 39 Head born Halberton
Charlotte Copp 38 Wife
Owen Copp 15 Son
John Copp 10 Son
Ellen Copp 4 Daughter
Emma Copp 1 Daughter
Trish :)
-
Sorry, I mean the birthdate on that baptism record.
I wondered though, if Elizabeth may have married and John was then baptised as a result. ???
-
Thanks for clearing that up :)
-
Here it is
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRM8-QTP
-
You have the right John. I don't think you can ever be sure of dates back then - records have John born 1812, 1810 and on his death certificate he was allegedly born in 1808. So guess it could be any time. Thanks for these thoughts, I will try looking at the John Jordan born to Elizabeth and see where it takes me.
-
I have a family in my tree which kept swopping between two surnames (Wealing and Parrott). I had to go back 2 generations to find where the two names came from. In this case a mary ballard married a Mr Wealing. He died and she had a relationship with another man, which produced a son baptised as John Wealing. Two years later Mary married Richard Parrott, who I suspect was not John's natural father. John's granddaughter was baptised as a Wealing but married my relative as a Parrott. Took a bit of sorting out.
-
It's very confusing isn't it? Especially when there are Copps in the family! I think for some reason, John Jordan has taken on the family name of his Mother in law, as here maiden name was Copp and her father, I think was John Copp. There was also a John Copp born in Halberton in 1824, staying with a family member in the 1851 census. I think it's going to take me a while to sort it out.
-
This seems to be the only COPP family (that I can see) directly related to Halberton:
John COPP (b. 1781 Portsmouth Hampshire) Ag lab, dairy man and retired farmer in Halberton census from 1841 to 1861 with wife Elizabeth ELWORTHY (b 1789 Halberton)
John COPP married in 1819 Halberton to Elizabeth ELWORTHY.
Their children baptised Halberton
Jane 1820
Elizabeth 1822
John 1824
Henry 1826
John James 1828 (edit to correct)
Thomas 1832
John COPP was a widower when he married Elizabeth ELWORTHY. He may have had other children from an earlier marriage.
Its possible that Elizabeth had an illegitimate son, from before she married, with someone named GORDON, who took on his step-fathers name Copp.
Whoever recorded the baptism of his last few children of John and Charlotte, knew of him as John JORDAN, and that he was using the alias COPP.
-
There was also a John Copp born in Halberton in 1824, staying with a family member in the 1851 census. I think it's going to take me a while to sort it out.
Could he be the John Copp who was the son of John Copp senior and Elizabeth Ellworthy (previous reply)?
-
There was also a John Copp born in Halberton in 1824, staying with a family member in the 1851 census. I think it's going to take me a while to sort it out.
Could he be the John Copp who was the son of John Copp senior and Elizabeth Ellworthy (previous reply)?
My same thoughts, LizzieL
To look further, callyj06 would need to post details about the census referred to.
-
Looks like John 1824 died as there was a later John b 1828.
-
Might be connected
1861 census
John Copp b Halberton 1824
Piece number 1479, Folio 55, Page 20
added
It looks as if this John's wife Ann was Ann Tozer who remarried as a widow in Halberton in 1875 to Benjamin Needs
-
"To look further, callyj06 would need to post details about the census referred to."
From the 1851 Census for Willand
John Stone 40 Willand
Susan Stone 41
William Stone 11
Susanna Stone 9
Lidia Stone 5
Mark Stone 3
Emanuel Marsden Lodger
Thomas Hitchcock Lodger
JOHN COPP VISITOR 23 Halberton
John Stone is the brother in law of my 2 x Gt. Grandfather, the John Jordan (Copp) person I'm searching for.
-
Looks like John 1824 died as there was a later John b 1828.
I think that the child born in 1828 was actually James and there is no burial for a John Copp between 1824 and 1828 in Halberton.
-
The John COPP visiting John STONE and family in 1851 is recorded as a carpenter and born abt 1828.
I believe he is the same John COPP who married Ann TOZER on 19 Nov 1854 in Newton Abbot.
I think the 1851 census age is wrong I believe him to be the John COPP born 1824 Halberton, son to John COPP and Elizabeth ELWORTHY (see previously posted family reply #15)
John COPP (born 1824), wife Ann Tozer and three children are in Tiverton in 1861 census. John is still a carpenter.
If unsure, the Copp-Tozer marriage certificate would confirm his father.
-
I think that the child born in 1828 was actually James and there is no burial for a John Copp between 1824 and 1828 in Halberton.
Yes, that is correct. I made a typing error when listing the children's names. James born 1828.
That James (also a carpenter) was still living with his father in the 1851 census.
By the way, I think in 1854, that James married an Elizabeth STONE (daughter of Charles). Not sure if that Stone family is related.
-
"By the way, I think in 1854, that James married an Elizabeth STONE (daughter of Charles). Not sure if that Stone family is related."
I don't know of them but I will look into it - thanks.
-
"By the way, I think in 1854, that James married an Elizabeth STONE (daughter of Charles). Not sure if that Stone family is related."
I don't know of them but I will look into it - thanks.