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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: meggles on Friday 28 April 23 04:28 BST (UK)

Title: place of birth
Post by: meggles on Friday 28 April 23 04:28 BST (UK)
Hi, I am trying to work our where these 2 birth  places are from the census.
they are for a Elizabeth Hodgson for 1851 and 1861.
I think one is Sussex Enfield and the other one is Hurst Ludlow, but i can't find either of these places in the UK.

She was born in 1822 and married James Hodgson.  I am trying really hard to find their marriage certificate so i can get a surname for her.

thank you so much.
cheers
Meggles
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 28 April 23 04:33 BST (UK)


Possibly?

Hurst Ludlow

Sussex Enfield
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: meggles on Friday 28 April 23 04:41 BST (UK)
hi, that's what I thought - but I can't find these places in the UK anywhere.
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 28 April 23 04:47 BST (UK)
I wonder if it is meant to be Henfield Sussex. There is Hurstpierpoint just near there too. Though I realise it looks like "Hurst Ludlow".
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 28 April 23 05:02 BST (UK)

Census 1861...their 5 year old daughter is born Toronto Canada.

Army record for James HODGSON should give some clues.
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: meggles on Friday 28 April 23 05:35 BST (UK)
I have the army recorded but it has no information on Elizabeth. I know that James was at the army barracks in Portsmouth in 1841. He joined the army 1838.  I know he went to the West Indies august 1841 and straight on to Canada in Dec 1843 and returned to England in 1848 with wife and child.  But I can’t find a marriage anywhere so I am lost at knowing who Elizabeth was. I have searched army marriage and Canadian records with no luck. 
I thought if I could find A birth place for Elizabeth I could look at all the Elizabeth's born around 1822 and eliminate.   
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: dobfarm on Friday 28 April 23 05:59 BST (UK)
With the county put first with Sussex (H)Enfield

Could the other be Here(f)t (sort for Herefordshire) Ludlow

On the Ludlow census is the County put first on other entries
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: Viktoria on Friday 28 April 23 06:21 BST (UK)
But Ludlow is in Shropshire, albeit very close to the Herefordshire border .
I have looked on a very old map of Shropshire which I have framed but can’t find it .
I can’t get at my very large scale four inches to a mile maps at the moment but try Googling it .
What came up for me was The Hurst , an area , presently with walks, cycle rides etc.
Viktoria.
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 28 April 23 09:23 BST (UK)
In the 1851 census (Cambridge Barracks, Portsmouth) the enumerator consistently puts birth town first, then county.  So I would guess that "Ludlow" is a mistranscription of "Sussex".
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: Dundee on Friday 28 April 23 11:22 BST (UK)
GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 To 1924) - FindMyPast

Mary A HODGSON
1845
Canada
   
REG1

You can order a birth cert from the GRO.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp

Debra  :)
   
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 28 April 23 12:16 BST (UK)
More detail on the army birth index record
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: meggles on Friday 28 April 23 22:42 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone for your help.
i will continue to look at the Sussex area for her birth and try and eliminate.
i have Mary Anns birth, but unfortunately it did not give me any hints on her mothers name.
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 30 April 23 05:27 BST (UK)
In the 1851 census (Cambridge Barracks, Portsmouth) the enumerator consistently puts birth town first, then county.  So I would guess that "Ludlow" is a mistranscription of "Sussex".
[/b]

Its very possible there is a mistranscription, though hard to understand on the 2 written words Ludlow and Sussex. With pronunciation  by a person in his own in dialect  or slang from were the person grew up, then the enumerators own interpretation of understanding that dialect in his own slang, bearing in mind he would be educated and most folk would be in illiterate them days.

My G Granddad 2  - born Ballsall in Warwickshire (Pronounced lSounds like pronounced 'Bore -Sale] in Warwickshire) then he moved to Bolsover in Derbyshire by 1861 census put down as born 'Bulsel in Warwickshire'

Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 30 April 23 05:36 BST (UK)
"i have Mary Anns birth, but unfortunately it did not give me any hints on her mothers name."

What record do you have that does not show mother's name?
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 30 April 23 06:09 BST (UK)


What happened next, 1861 +, in the lives of James HODGSON, wife Elizabeth and daughter Mary Ann?
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 30 April 23 18:44 BST (UK)
But Ludlow is in Shropshire, albeit very close to the Herefordshire border .
I have looked on a very old map of Shropshire which I have framed but can’t find it .
I can’t get at my very large scale four inches to a mile maps at the moment but try Googling it .
What came up for me was The Hurst , an area , presently with walks, cycle rides etc.
Viktoria.

Sorry about that :-[  but when I was searching the net about Ludlow this link mislead me.

https://www.hlcollege.ac.uk/home
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 30 April 23 19:22 BST (UK)
 The Hurst is on the map with Ludlow but not exactly near.
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: meggles on Sunday 30 April 23 23:32 BST (UK)
The Birth Certificate for Mary Ann is one from the army collection,  it just states that she is the daughter of James Hodgson of the 82nd Regiment and wife  Elizabeth. 

James and Elizabeth with daughter Mary returned to the UK in 1848 and were down in Portsmouth until James retired from the army in 1860 and went back up to Lancashire (st Helens) Elizabeth died in 1869 from Pneumonia.   I have her death certificate and also have been to her grave at the cemetery in St Helens.

Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 01 May 23 01:12 BST (UK)
  First:- St Helens is in Lancashire (NOT Yorkshire)

You say:-  . I know that James was at the army barracks in Portsmouth in 1841. He joined the army 1838.


With James and Elizabeth Hodgson living in St Helens near Liverpool 1861 census and Elizabeth death St Helens in 1869 by dates and locations known  there is this marriage and a baptism may be a faint possibility to pursue further research as below

----------------------------
A none Conformist birth

Elizabeth Eleanor Davies

Sex   Female
Birth Date   28 Jan 1822
Father's Name   William Davies
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Mary
Mother's Sex   Female
Event Type   Christening
Event Date   3 Mar 1822
Event Place   Ludlow, Shropshire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   Broad Street Wesleyan, Ludlow, Shropshire, England


Marriage  Sep 1840
HODGSON    James        Liverpool   vol  20    page 143
DAVIES    Elizabeth                  Liverpool   vol  20    page 143






Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: Kay99 on Monday 01 May 23 04:32 BST (UK)
The 1840 marriage is on Anc

16 August 1840 James Hodgson - Brazier -father John Hodgson - Carpet Weaver to Elizabeth Davies - father David Davies - Weaver   Witnesses - Margaret Davies and Henry Richards
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 01 May 23 14:40 BST (UK)
Thanks Kay

Its was just a small try based on location mainly

One last try before I buzz off.

Can you look up on this link.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/60931/?name=James_Hodgson

Sincerely Dobby
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: Kay99 on Monday 01 May 23 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi Dobby

Sadly I don't think any of the records on the link are relevant to the right James Hodgson

Kat
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 01 May 23 17:58 BST (UK)
Hi Dobby

Sadly I don't think any of the records on the link are relevant to the right James Hodgson

Kat

Well ! we tried  ;)
Title: Re: place of birth
Post by: meggles on Tuesday 02 May 23 09:43 BST (UK)
Thank you for trying.
I had actually have a copy of the Elizabeth Davis marriage certificate, but interesting to see that she was born in hurst.  What are the chances that James put the wrong name down for his father on the marriage??.  I will do some more investigating into Elizabeth Davis and see where it takes me.
thank you for all your help.