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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: niccymae on Tuesday 18 April 23 22:46 BST (UK)
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Hi all, I’m after some help. I’m new to this and have been stuck on this for a few weeks.
My grandad was allegedly adopted and the information I have is very limited. The only documents I have are his possible birth certificate, and marriage and death certificates. I’m fairly certain this is the right birth certificate as his name, location, day, month of birth are all correct although his birth year was two years later than we thought. Also Thomas Robertson Brennan match the other records I have on him and as there aren’t many Thomas R Brennan’s appearing on searches I’m fairly sure it’s him.
I’ve been trying to get more information on his mother, my great grandmother, but all I have is the information on the birth certificate. I can’t find anything that matches with that address and nothing on the 1921 Scottish census. Why would that be? I’m also wondering if people lied about their names and address back in 1922 which is possibly why I’m struggling for information?
Despite coming across names matching hers, I’ve no way of knowing which one she is if at all. What do you do in these situations? I can’t find any adoption records but I’m actually wondering if he was really adopted in the first place. It’s all a mystery. I was told his middle name which was Robertson was his birth fathers surname but we were also told his birth mother got pregnant out of marriage by a ranking officer on a ship who was Greek- Robertson doesn’t sound very Greek though!
If you look at the birth certificate it has three entries in relation to three different people. In the very first column there is an adoption stamp. My initial thought was the stamp in that column was in relation to the first person only but I’m thinking it could be for the whole page??
I’m on Ancestry, Find my Past and have been looking at the Scottish National Archives.
If anyone can help, give tips and point me in the right direction it will be very much appreciated. Thank you
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Hello & welcome to RC
I'm afraid your image is very blurred & unreadable so we need a better image
or you can tell us what's it says.
In the meantime the 3 names should be the birth mother & the adoptive parents
who are re-registering his name.
She may have gone to Scotland from elsewhere in the UK to have the child &
arrange the adoption & then returned home.
It may be the Robertson name is hers & not the putative fathers, I have one just like it.
The address may be a mother & baby home.
A lot of maybe's I know.
DNA might be the route to go.
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I can’t find any adoption records but I’m actually wondering if he was really adopted in the first place.
You won't find adoption records for that time period.
The Adoption of Children (Scotland) Act, 1930 introduced legal adoption into Scotland from that year.
Before 1930 adoptions were arranged on a private basis, either by individuals or by one of a number of charitable adoption agencies.
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/research-guides/research-guides-a-z/adoption-records
You may have to look at admissions to children's homes/orphanages but whether the records are open to the public will depend on when he left his mother. I think they are generally closed for 100 years. Did he name a father when he married?
Debra :)
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Hi,
Thank you both for your response. For some reason it wouldn't let me attach the original file, it said it was too large even though it was just one document. Is there a way around this? The document was downloaded from the National Scottish Archives.
The document is a birth certificate with three separate entries. My grandfather is the second entry.
On the first entry it relates to another person and in the column in the corner of that entry there are two stamps which say adoption. What isn't clear is if that column represents the one entry or all three. it looks like that even though before 1930 adoptions weren't made official, some birth certificates made note of this. Its such a shame it wont let me upload the document as id love to know what others think of this.
For my grandfather the details I have are the area the birth was registered which was St Rollox in the borough of Glasgow
His full name: Thomas Robertson Brennan
Date, time and place of birth:6h 10pm, 1st August 1922, maternity hospital, Glasgow
Mothers name, job title & address: Catherine Brennan, Tailoress, 14, Stanley Street, Glasgow
His birth mothers signature
The date the birth was registered: 18th August 1922
There is no father mentioned and nowhere does it say illegitimate. The two other entries name fathers and job titles. It makes me think she was unmarried and my grandfather took her maiden name. We think Robertson may have been his fathers name, although that's just a guess. Interestingly, which I think I have already mentioned, is this birth certificate makes my grandfather two years younger than stated on his death certificate. I am quite certain this is him though.
If he was alive today, he would be 100 years old which I hope means I can access protected records. Any idea how I can go about looking at orphanages or working houses in Scotland?
He was in the navy and on his wedding day he wore his Royal Navy uniform. On my fathers birth certificate it states his Royal Navy number PGX 161276 although I haven't been able to obtain any information on his time in the Navy.
He is a very difficult person to get information on and despite my fathers maternal side having lots of family around, nobody seems to know anything about my Grandad Tom and his family which adds further to the mystery and my curiosity.
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I've looked this birth record up and the only names are the child plus the mother.
Born 1st August 1922 - Thomas Robertson Brennan - Maternity Hospital, Glasgow
Mother - Catherine Brennan, tailoress - Domicile 14 Stanley Street, Glasgow.
No other names other than the Registrar's.
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Hello,
Yes that’s correct which is why this is so hard it to figure out. I’m assuming he is what they would consider an illegitimate child. Do you think the adoption stamp refers to the first child or all three children on that page?
Thanks for you me help.
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Ah I see what you are getting confused about. The two stamps are in the section that relates to Georgina Kennedy. If you look carefully at the rim of the stamp you will see it says See Reg of Corr Ents. This means you need to look at the Register of Corrected Entries.
These stamps have nothing to do with Thomas at all. I suspect Thomas stayed with his mother. Have you tried tracing him any further as in any possible marriage or death?
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Just for information only, Electoral Roll for 14 Stanley Street, Glasgow
1921
John DONALDSON
Mrs Maria DONALDSON
Maria B. DONALDSON
Margaret S. WATT
1922/1923
John DONALDSON
Mrs Maria DONALDSON
Alexander B. WATT
These people were John DONALDSON who was married in 1883 to Maria BURNSIDE. Their daughters Maria Brown DONALDSON and Margaret Steven DONALDSON who married Alexander Brown WATT.
Unfortunately I can't find them on the 1921 census but I can find all their electoral roll neighbours.
Debra :)
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hi,
Thank you for explain the stamps and clearing this up for me. I appreciate you taking the time to help. I was told the birth register may show less information than the birth certificate. Is this correct? I assumed they would have the same details. Thank you
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Hi Debbie,
Thank you so much for this. How did you find this information? I've been looking at could not find the information on The Scottish Archives, Ancestry and Find my Past. Would you mind sharing so i can look please? I know there were three Stanley roads in the borough of Glasgow and I believe two of them have since changed name. If I can get the information for the other two addresses as well as the website you used to obtain the information, I may have a lead. I will look into the names of the people you have found above and see what I can find.
Thanks for your help :)
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@ Girl Guide,
sorry I didn't respond fully. To answer your questions, I have his marriage and death certificate and met him a few times as a little girl. Its his early life which is the big mystery. There has always been a lot of questions around him and lots of stories were put forward as to who he was and where he came from - some quite elaborate. Sadly my father recently passed away and I really regret not asking more questions about him although I suspect, I would not be any further along in trying to identify who he was and where he came from because I don't think anyone really knew. He moved from Scotland to London with my Grandma and they married in Westminster with all her family but nobody from his.
Even on my grandmothers and great grandmothers side there is a lot of mystery with a child that were "adopted" into the family but a lot of that doesn't add up. They don't appear in many family trees, Electoral Rolls on census so I am hoping the DNA test I have submitted will yield some results and provide me with some answers.
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Dundee has kindly checked the electoral rolls for the address.
There is one other check you can do for addresses, the Valuation Rolls www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/valuation-rolls
The 1920 Valuation Rolls shows:
Mrs Elizabeth BRENNAN
Tenant
HOUSE 14 STANLEY STREET KINNING PARK
GOVAN
1920
VR010201284-
Mrs Brennan is also there up to at least 1925. Can't see an entry for her on the next online Valuation Rolls for 1930.
The 1915 Valuation Rolls:
John BRENNEN
Tenant/Occupier
HOUSE NO 14 STANLEY STREET KINNING PARK
GOVAN
1915
VR010201090-
Monica
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In 1921, Mrs Elizabeth Brennan, a widow, was living with her two daughters, Elizabeth and Cathie, at 14 Stanley Street, Pollokshields. The address was multi occupancy.
Their ages and other details:
Elizabeth, mother, 58, b. Glasgow
Elizabeth, daughter, 29, b. South Queensferry, Midlothian
Cathie, daughter, 23, b. Glasgow
Monica
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There is this family in 1901:
John Brennan 35 furnace filler b. Ireland
Eliza Brennan 30 b. Ireland
Eliza Brennan 11
Patrick Brennan 9
Mary Ann Brennan 5
Kate Brennan 3
Bridget Brennan 1
Francis Casey 24 boarder b. Ireland
Address 126 Long Row, Coatbridge, Old Monkland
Children are all showing as born in Coatbridge.
The family still show in Coatbridge on the 1911 census I think from the search screen.
Some differences from what we have from the 1921 census entry in respect of birth places :-\ Needs more work this! Not sure if the family in Coatbridge connect really...
Monica
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Monica, you are amazing. Thank you so much for this.
Please give me tips as to how you’re finding this information as I’m all the main websites but I’m clearly doing something wrong. Thank you so much it’s so lovely I have names to work with so I can start to figure this all out. 🙂
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The main site to work with for Scotland is the official one here www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (often referred to as SP).
A number of key documents such as the 1911 & 1921 censuses, for example, are only available through SP. You can pay to view online original images from the registers for BMDs up to the cut offs (births 100 yrs/ marriages 75 years/ deaths 50 years). Costs are reasonable.
Monica
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I don't think the Coatbridge family I posted about are the right family for Catherine. I think really you need to focus on that 1921 census entry in Glasgow with mother Elizabeth and daughters at 14 Stanley Street and try to work from there.
This looks to be the death of Elizabeth Snr:
ELIZABETH MCCREADIE or BRENNAN
69
Mother's maiden name MCGUIRE
1928
644 / 18 / 327
Pollokshields
Married women's deaths in Scotland are registered with both their maiden and married surnames.
Monica
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Yes sorry, I didn't realise that there was more than one Stanley Street/Road so the one I found is irrelevant. The electoral rolls on Ancestry do not index addresses so I looked in the newspapers to find a mention of anyone who lived in Stanley Street at the time and then looked for them on the rolls.
Debra :)
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London Gazette 9.5.1967
Brennan, Thomas Robertson, known as James Brennan, otherwise James McIlroy, residing at 61 Theydon Cres, Basildon. Act of Bankruptcy proved in Creditors Petition.
There are more of these reports in 1966 living at 23 Grimston Ave, Basildon.
Mary Hamilton Brennan, The New Inn Hotel, Dagenham. Wife of Thomas Robertson Brennan, caterer.
Mary died 20.4.1981.
Marriage 1947 to Mary Hamilton Mcilroy.
Is this the correct Thomas?
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Hi, yes this is the correct one thank you. I have the details of his older years but not the younger years.
Interesting to see how he went by James too. This will help with my search. Thank you very much.
Great idea about looking through the newspapers I’ll do this. Thank you 😊