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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Cell on Saturday 15 April 23 02:20 BST (UK)

Title: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Saturday 15 April 23 02:20 BST (UK)
Hi,
Rather than writing another email to the TNA , as every  email I've  recieved from them  it takes them two to three weeks to respond  -  I am wondering  if anyone here has gone through applying  and paying for their records , and can answer my question.

I have received  an email yesterday with a link to pay for the service records I wish to obtain :

"Thank you for your recent request for information from The National Archives.

Check your enquiry details below and follow the link to Worldpay to proceed to payment.[/i][/b][/u]

Enquiry reference number: PAY 02xxx-Cxxxxx


Fee request:

Fee amount: 24.35 GBP (no VAT added "

Xxx ( link here to pay which I've  crossed out)  "


The email  I recieved prior to that  ( and  which I responded  to, saying I wish to proceed with the request  ) quoted a ref number which was assigned to my case,  which is totally different to the above ref number ( and one digit more too)
 Part of the Email below ( the rest of the email is blurb about Freedom of Information and fees and so on, the name of my grandfather and his service number , and if I wish to proceed please let them know so they can give me a final cost and a pay link)  :


"Your reference number is CAS-1XXXXX-YXXXXX . Please quote this reference number in future correspondence with regards to your case to enable us to identify your request more easily. "

My question  is , were your Enquiry Ref numbers to pay for the records  completely  different from your Case Ref numbers ( minus the PAY , and CAS letters  of course) ?
I don't  want to pay for it , if they've  mixed  me up with someone else. ( they have my own name right - it's  just the completely different  Enquiry and Case ref numbers that  I am querying  - as I would have expected them to be the same ref numbers, and they're not). The link  which I am taken to , to pay for it ,and their email does  not give any other info except my own name and the  completely different ref numbers ( and  no name of the soldier unlike their previous  email - so it's not enough to check  if it's correct before I hit the pay button - The only thing I know  is correct  is my own name  )

Kind regards
Ps I am in Australia , so it's  bit difficult to phone  them within their business hours , and it seems their phones aren't  manned  according to their site - you apparently have to  leave you phone  number with them and they'll call you ( which I guess could be weeks if it's anything like their  time response with emails) .
 They have a live chat it seems Tuesday to Saturday , which I may try using *tonight  (* my time here) if that works
 I just wondered if anyone here has gone through the whole process ,and could confirm that their  own ref numbers were completely different to eachother  too , and  if it is just  the way  the TNA do it . It saves me trying to get in contact with them to ask the question.



 








Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: nanny jan on Saturday 15 April 23 11:58 BST (UK)
If you are looking for WW2 service records:

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Monday 17 April 23 02:39 BST (UK)
If you are looking for WW2 service records:

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records
Hi,
I've  been through all that. I am up to the final stages  where they will send me the service records once they recieve  my payment for it

I applied months ago online (  through  the TNA portal, when the portal first went up) . I then recieved a letter from the MOD after their search, with the file  numbers where my grandfathers  records can  be found to give  to the TNA if I wish to apply  ( which I did months ago).
 I have been corresponding with the TNA over  the past few weeks/ months - I am now in the final  stages of paying for the service records which they will send to me once I pay for it.

I am querying the  difference between the ref numbers / letters  that the TNA have given  me,  and am wondering if anyone else has gone through it - and  if the ENQUIRY ref numbers  that they were given by the TNA  to pay for theirs  , like mine, were  completely different  to the CASE ref numbers that they were also given by the TNA too.

The TNA give you a Case Ref in your emails ( you apply in writing for the records , by email to the TNA - once the MOD sends you out  a letter in the post,  and if they say that your records have been moved over - the online portal on the TNA site is just for the MOD to search for you).
 
The case ref that the TNA gives you for your  application ( after you contact them and give them the info the MOD has given  you) identifies you and the record you wish to purchase . You are supposed to use this unique  Case  ref  in all correspondence with them. In  the very last email, the TNA have given me an Enquiry  Ref to pay for the record via worldpay, and not the Case  ref's  combination - which is totally different numbers/letters  to the case ref numbers/letters  for some  odd reason ( I  would  logically think they  would be the same ).  ie there is no way to check if it is correct  details before I pay - yet they say  "Check your enquiry details below and follow the link to Worldpay to proceed to payment"
If that makes any sense

I don't want to pay for something if they've  mixed my application with  someone elses.  The ref numbers/ letters are  completely  different to each other. Case and Enquiry  ( two sets of  different  combinations of refs). There is nothing else  I can check  on  the payment link  if it is the right  ,only  my own name - That is all they have given me to check, my name and a completely  different set of refs to the one we have been using.

If anyone has gone down this route and have gone through the whole process up to the payment  link and receiving  the records, hopefully  they should know what I am taking about, and will be able to confirm if their two sets of ref's( enquiry
and case refs)  were completely different  to each other,  or the same combination(? ?)
I just find it totally odd why my two  sets of references are completely different to each other because there is  no way of checking  if it's correct before I hit the pay button for them.

Kind regards
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: nanny jan on Monday 17 April 23 09:26 BST (UK)
Sorry but I am unable to offer any advice; the last time I applied for a service records was some years ago with no involvement with TNA.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Monday 17 April 23 11:03 BST (UK)
I would have thought that the Separate Payment Section that has the FOUND papers
would be a Payment Section with their Own Reference for Payment (Cross referenced)
 then Release the Papers under the Application Reference found.
Just a Theory
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ewanarm on Monday 17 April 23 13:29 BST (UK)
Service records have been free to request since the 1st April 2023. I have just requested my grandfather's and it was a very quick and easy process online but who knows how long it will take to receive them???
I would suggest you request them again but as you have already paid for them don't know whether you would be entitled to a refund?
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Monday 17 April 23 20:22 BST (UK)
Service records have been free to request since the 1st April 2023. I have just requested my grandfather's and it was a very quick and easy process online but who knows how long it will take to receive them???
I would suggest you request them again but as you have already paid for them don't know whether you would be entitled to a refund?
The TNA are not Free
It was the MOD Gov Site you are referring to
But
They have Never Said the Service Records are Free from 1st April
What they said is that the application was Free
 and no payment needed to be sent with the application .
That was because the £30  payment by Cheque previously couldn't be cashed when they got to the case in the two year Backlog because a Cheque is only valid for 6 months.
Hence this new System
Apply Free then Pay them if they find them before the send them to you after payment
Did you Honestly think they would Research for the Records,
 Photocopy All the pages of the Records and Post them
to you anywhere in the World
 for Free ?
Hence this Poster has been asked for Payment before they will be Sent to them.
They are currently being Transferred to the National Archives
Do you think they won't charge either ?

Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Tuesday 18 April 23 01:43 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone.
ALAMO2008, I'll  just  pay for it and hope for the best. I am probably  worrying about nothing .

Ewanarm,  obtaining the actual records are not free even if you  have applied after  that April date. My online application was also free  too when I applied before April.
I have not paid anything yet.
The charges are for a member of  the TNA staff to physically go through  the boxes and make copies of them to send to you, as they are in the process of digitalising and indexing  them  and sorting through them.

The free bit is the application .  The MOD  will inform you by *snail mail ( *even though  you apply through the online portal) if they  hold the record or if it has been moved over  to the TNA ( like mine were)
Which is  and was totally free to do this online before that  April date and past that April date.
The MOD  will give  you an index number in their letter to give to the TNA ( where the  invidual  army record is filed under ) and maybe an *army number (* this depends, they gave me an Army number for my grandfather's, but didn't  for my hubby's grandfather , they gave  me just an index number for his )

 From April this " free to apply"  applied to postal applications too, which were not free on application before that date of course ( as you had to send off a cheque  to the MOD with your initial application) - Where it was free  via  the online portal  anyway before that April date ( when I applied) - I think this is where the confusion is coming in with some  thinking  that  records are  free if you apply after April . They were referring to postal  applications  being free ( not records) after  that date.

  Good news though , it's  a little cheaper than the 30 pounds charge that it used to cost from the MOD ( mine is  24.35 pounds and should be a large record as he was in the army for decades up until the very early 1960s) - unless I will receive further charges when they retrieve the record as they do say it is an estimate cost and further charges may apply if  :

" This  fee covers the time taken for one of our team to research into the record and for copies of the records to be sent you. Depending on the size of the records, a further charge may apply for copies to be sent to you via email. Large volumes or complex copying will involve a further fee." Quote from  my email from the TNA .

Also it is far quicker than it used to be too ( with people waiting  well over a year for the records from the MOD)  even though it has taken it couple months to get this far with mine and it will be another month after payment. It's  so very quick compared to what  it used to be like before( that's unless I've  got my  application in before a rush of applications  because of this  after 1st April)


The photo  attached  is the letter I received from  the MOD after applying online before April  (  which was 100% free ) . If you  receive one  informing you they have been moved over to the TNA , you then need to apply to them by writing/ email. The TNA will then  inform you if they will release them to you, costs to make copies  and so on and if you wish to proceed.
Then when you inform the TNA that  you wish to proceed, they  will eventually send you a link to pay - from there on , after payment, it should take up to this time  below:
"Depending on how swiftly payment is made, you should receive copies of the requested record within 20 working days, as laid out in the Freedom of Information Act 2000. " Quote is from  my email from the TNA.

" but who knows how long it will take to receive them??" Quote from Ewanarm

Ewanarm,  if mine are anything to by, this ( time line below)  will give you some sort of idea on  how long it  may take  the MOD , and then the *TNA ( *if  your ones have also been moved over to the TNA, and  if you proceed with the application  of course ) to get  back to you:

I applied on the 8th Feb via the online portal on the TNA site for free  ,  received  a reply from the MOD 15th march in the post  ( I am in Aus, the mail from the UK takes a few weeks to get to me out here  - the actual letter  was typed  out within a very timely manner by the MOD, on the 17th feb )

 I sent a  formal  worded email  to the TNA immediately on the same  day of receiving  the  MOD letter, on the 15th March,  to apply for the records  from them.

Received a reply email  from TNA 28th March ,laying out costs and so on,  and they believe they hold the record, freedom  of information and so on .
Sent an email back to them dated 29th March, saying  yes, I'd  like to proceed  with the application.

Received an email  from TNA on the 14th April with a payment link for the records to be copied and sent to me.

So about 2 months in all - plus it will be up to 20  working days  to receive the records after I pay for a copy , which I am about to do now , when I  stop typing , it will be close to three months from application to receiving records.

Kind regards  :)
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ewanarm on Tuesday 18 April 23 12:24 BST (UK)
Thank you Cell for your concise and informative reply. That helps clarify matters and clears up what is free and where there is a charge. The publicity regarding the charges has been quite confusing and initially did read as if the service had become free which it clearly has not.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Monday 12 June 23 01:32 BST (UK)
Hi,
Just an update on mine , and I also have an extra big question ; Are the.TNA breaking any laws under the FOI ACT ? :

It seems  to me that the TNA are  not sticking by the within 20 working days under the FOI ACT  , and  also *their ( *TNA.) own clauses to this when it is not possible for them to do it within the 20 working days  . It's  now apparently  6 months for FOI request from them ,  which I don't  think is good enough in my  own case for the reasons  that they clearly informed me  in writing " within 20 working days from payment " ( I paid them on the 18th April) with a clause underneath that  it will take" longer"  but WE WILL REGULARLY UPDATE YOU. (  It's  the "regularly update" you  bit  that I am getting really annoyed at the most  - as I have not received any updates at all , pure silence from their end - it is almost  as if they've taken my money and ran , ie  their agreements and clauses are not worth the paper it is written on)

"Depending on how swiftly payment is made, you should receive copies of the requested record within 20 working days, as laid out in the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Please be aware that this department is currently handling an exceptionally high volume of cases, so it will take us longer than usual to respond to your request.  We will update you regularly on the progress of your case.  To allow us to process cases as efficiently as possible, please note that we will not be able to answer standard queries "
 Above quote from the email I recieved from them when they sent me the payment  information and then a link to pay (back  in April,when I paid for it ).

I  have  emailed them just a few days ago  to enquire why I haven't  heard from them at all ( which was 33 working days after my  payment ) .  I  was expecting to receive  the records  a little bit longer after  that  FOI ACT of  20 working days , as  stated by them ( " longer")   in their clauses to  this at the time,  but fully  expected to  being regularly updated when this was to occur , as also written In their clauses too in their emails to me , but  not this long of 33  working days.

The auto  email  reply to when you send off an email to then now currently says this

" Thank you for getting in touch.

Your email has been received by the MOD Access Service Team at The National Archives and we will respond in due course.

Our team is currently processing a high volume of requests and we respond to all emails in date order.

Please be advised that our CURRENT average processing time for a Freedom of Information (FOI) request is 6 months.

Kind regards"
Quote  ( I've underlined , and made bold the  relevant above words)


I personally don't  think this is good enough, when I  initially  applied months before -  way back in Feb , and PAID for the service/records  when they finally  sent me a link in  April to pay - All of which , including payment, occurred before they brought in this  current 6 month clause (that they very  recently have brought into their clauses when you try  to get in contact with them ).  There was no 6 months wording  in any of their clauses in all of their correspondence to me when I paid  months ago, just  the wording "longer" ( whatever that is  supposed to mean in exact time,  as they did not  specify  in their  then clauses what "longer" means in  terms of  exact about time- can that mean   just  a few weeks, months, or even years?   )  And that they will "regularly update me with my case to which they  havent done at all.

I probably won't get an answer to my  enquiry email for weeks from them  ( about why  I havent been updated  as stated in their emails to me,   or sent the records  )

My question is, does anyone know if they could be breaking the FOI  act  in this case?  I am on the verge of putting in a complaint to the  ICO over the issues that they told me in their correspondence to me that I would receive  them within 20 working days  in accordance  to the FOI act , but  it will take longer than this-  BUT they would  REGULARY  UPDATE me - which they haven't  to this exact date, ( today) , I  still haven't  heard one single  Dicky bird update  from them on the progress of my case that is  long overdue (well over 33 working days later after  my payment).

Is it worth  putting  a complaint in to the ICO  over their lack of updating me , when it runs  well " longer"   over those 20 working days  ? Or are the TNA within  their full legal rights  to change their  clauses way after you have paid for the service from them, hence them cancelling those clauses that  were current when you paid for the  agreed service , and time of when you entered into the contract with them  - if that makes any sense.
Surely  that can not  be legal, changing the clauses after you paid under completely different clauses with  them ?  And they have a legal obligation to stick within 20 working days under the  FOI or regularly update me with progress of my case, as  written at the time I entered an agreement with them/paid for the records.

Thank you for any  opinions, or thoughts on this matter
Kind regards






Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Andy J2022 on Monday 12 June 23 08:17 BST (UK)
Where specific particular circumstances arise, Article 4 of The Freedom of Information (Time for Compliance with Request) Regulations (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/3364/made) 2004 increases the time in which the Public Record Office (the legal name of the National Archives) has to comply with an FoI request to 60 working days. Put as simply as possible, the specific circumstances are that the information which forms the content of the application is not open information due to it being subject to, or possibly subject to, special exemptions. In this case an exemption may arise because it would involve disclosing personal information relating to a person other than the applicant. Needless to say, the actual wording to the amended FoI Act is considerably more complicated than that.

Sixty working days is, in effect, 12 weeks although that period is slightly longer in your case due to the three bank holidays in May, and Easter. 

There is no statutory provision for keeping you informed about the progess of the application, although I agree that they should not make commitments to do so if they don't intend to keep to them.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Monday 12 June 23 08:39 BST (UK)
Thank you so much  Andy,
 I am really annoyed at  their  words that  they  " WILL " update on the progress of your case.
so really their " Will"   word  is not  really worth the  paper it is  written  on.

" Depending on how swiftly payment is made, you should receive copies of the requested record within 20 working days, as laid out in the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

 Please be aware that this department is currently handling an exceptionally high volume of cases, so it will take us longer than usual to respond to your request. We will update you regularly on the progress of your case"  Quote

Thank you again for your above  explanation.
 I'll  wait until 60 working days to take it further with an official  complaint  to the ICO( but hopefully I  will not need to )
Kind regards  :)

Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ewanarm on Wednesday 28 June 23 08:31 BST (UK)
I have today received an email in response to my request for my Grandfather's service record and have received his service record and have not been charged! I sent the request through the GOV.UK website on 17/04/2023 and received a response today so it has only taken two months. There is no request for payment of a search fee.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Thursday 29 June 23 05:27 BST (UK)
I have today received an email in response to my request for my Grandfather's service record and have received his service record and have not been charged! I sent the request through the GOV.UK website on 17/04/2023 and received a response today so it has only taken two months. There is no request for payment of a search fee.
Hi Ewanarm,
Did the  record  you  received  come from the MOD, or the TNA?

I also have received  my grandfather's record  too - at last! It came in today  with a link to download  it.

I am still reading it. , I am trying to decipher  a lot of it as I am not  familiar with some of the  Military  abbreviations . It's a big record 165 pages long  , it's So well worth my money either way -  I am just so happy I've finally recieved it. His record spans from the 1920s to 1966 ( I've got an exact date for retirement now at last)
They've  reacted some of mine, such as  they've  blanked out my uncle's name ( my grandfather's  son) with a note over it saying redacted under foi exemption until 2041 ( my uncle  has  been dead for a  good few years now - but I know it is him of course) .
I haven't  got through all the pages yet to see the other children being blanked out yet. ( such as my living mum and the other sibling) . I am only on page 26 of 165 so far .I have to keep googling the terms/ abbreviations to make sense out of some  of it.
 It's  going to take me months to make  some sense out of it though lol. But it  is sorting out a few things for me so far , such as I have realised that  I have mistranscribed my grandfathers writing on  an  old 1950s photo in Singapore with the army to say "Fahey "HQ , I always wondered what  the heck did he mean by Fahey   . Looking at the record he was actually at  the FARELF HQ during this exact time( far east land forces HQ ) .  That's  one mystery solved so far

Kind regards



Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ewanarm on Thursday 29 June 23 12:58 BST (UK)
Hi Cell,

It came from the MOD and is only 4 pages! The papers show his service record and his notification of release in 1945. Service record starts with his service in school Officer Training Corps through Territorial service with RAMC and war service and then shows him being placed on the reserve. Only redactions are his religion and details of his spouse which I obviously know already. Helped confirm a few stories that I had been told but only actually served overseas for 4 months in 1945 which is different to what I had been told.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Rann69 on Thursday 29 June 23 15:57 BST (UK)
Hello

May I ask a simple question please.

Is it the case that there is no charge for obtainong service records of deceased army ancestors from April 2023?

I just completed the MOD Gov Application online and saw no mention of fees or charges. Thanks all.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Thursday 29 June 23 18:32 BST (UK)
It didn't say it would spend time looking and photocopying Records and Posting all Free from April 2023
What it said was that your Application  would not be Charged
Because previous applications with Payment were invalid after  6 montbs after they reached it in their 2 year backlog


Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Rann69 on Thursday 29 June 23 19:23 BST (UK)
Thanks so after submitting the Application online and then go on to receive a record there is a fee - do you know what that is? Thanks again

ps - my ancestor's record relates to National Service post 1945
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Thursday 29 June 23 19:30 BST (UK)
Surely there will be a Fee before they send you what they found and how much.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Rann69 on Thursday 29 June 23 19:33 BST (UK)
Thank you again. All I am saying is the record holders should really state clearly upfront how much it is to obtain a record online or by other means.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Friday 30 June 23 01:43 BST (UK)
Hi Cell,

It came from the MOD and is only 4 pages! The papers show his service record and his notification of release in 1945. Service record starts with his service in school Officer Training Corps through Territorial service with RAMC and war service and then shows him being placed on the reserve. Only redactions are his religion and details of his spouse which I obviously know already. Helped confirm a few stories that I had been told but only actually served overseas for 4 months in 1945 which is different to what I had been told.
Hi,
That's interesting that the MOD redacted his religion as the TNA  haven't done the same with my grandfather's record. His religion  is left uncovered right throughout his records . They  also haven't redacted my grandmother either ( his spouse)
Mine is a massive document 165 pages ,  I think it would have taken the staff a while for them to read through it  all and decide  whether to blank any of it out ( it took  me a good part of the day yesterday and  that's only light reading  it)

 The only things they have redacted on mine are his children's names (  they are all are dead except  my mother) but yet they left a statement in the records  ( his  written statement when he was in a military hospital in 1958 ) talking about his three daughters, and  saying two of which are about to get married. It wouldn't really take much for  a non family member to do a  bit of  digging and find those three daughters names . ( one is my mother and the other two who are about to marry are my aunts ) . There seems no rhyme and reason with some of these redacted ones.

Yes they certainly help with confirming their stories, I now know exactly what  happened when my grandfather was injured in a land mine  in 1938 in Palestine now, which I knew he was blown up there ( which wasn't  how he suffered  being injured - he actually escaped the  explosions  of the land mines" blowing him up" -  only to have his truck driver run over one of his legs, in the heat of the explosions. His truck hit  a landmine and my grandfather jumped from the truck , who was sitting  in the front  next to the driver, inbetween the first landmine and the second landmine explosion and landed just a couple feet away from a third - which didnt go off ). There is a whole statement from him in his records detailing it . Reading it, He was lucky to be alive( one of the other men in his vechicle weren't so lucky who is also named.  )

The only one I was surprised at , which didn't confirm what I've  been told - in fact the complete opposite what I was always told that he loved Singapore   . I was always told he wanted to live there, and was offered a job to run the racetrack ,move his family out there to join  him and retire there, and my gran  didn't want to move there, wow how wrong is that! . It is totally incorrect going by his own statements on the records. (He was in and out of hospital in Singapore with various ailments )  .He was actually very miffed off ( miffed is  not his exact word - disgruntled  ) that he wasn't shipped to Hong Kong as he hated the Singapore  climate,and had enough of travelling and  he wanted to go home and become a " gardener"  which I had to laugh at this statement of wanting to garden ( he always did love his gardening  lol. I used to spend many a day with him down the allotments when I was kid, where he tried to escape from my gran's nagging lol) 

I also found out he was also a qualified football ref which-  was written  down in the records,,which I knew nothing about, except that he always did love his football when I knew him. Apparently he injured his knee ( twice)  back in the late 1920s at football which stopped him playing, so refereed the  army matches I suppose. Just  odd why they  used " qualified "  ,  don't  know  if that is army qualified, or an outside body  qualification .

Too much to take in . Mine retired at his own request in 1966 , poor granddad he must have been  very tired  at the time he retired in 1966.. He had  been constantly in the forces from from he was just  19 beng posted to Indian and sudan , Palestine  then the landings in france ,  and then Germany ,"peacekeeping" in various  countries such as Korea  and Singapore after that , rose through the ranks to  staff/ quartermaster  sergeant  which  most I did know about of course.
 He stepped  back  from postings ( after his  last stint in hospital in 1958 and being pretty much too old for keep carrying on like that  )   and  took the post of head gardener in the military prison back home in the UK (he got his wish lol)  . Then the last couple of years  , he went semi retired , into  the TA , and worked in the stores.


I'll  have to order my husband's grandfather's records,  I applied for his about a week after mine through the Tna's portal, but didn't  take it further ( recieved a letter from the MOD saying they have moved ,but I  didn't take it further to apply from the TNA for his.)  His granddad served in the war years for a couple of years ,as a medic/ stretcher bearer I believe,  My husband never knew his grandfather, he died before he was born so it should be interesting.)

Odd why they have redacted your  religion and didn't with mine.  It almost seems as if it depends on   how they interpret the Freedom and information act.
Kind regards





Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Friday 30 June 23 02:48 BST (UK)
Thanks so after submitting the Application online and then go on to receive a record there is a fee - do you know what that is? Thanks again

ps - my ancestor's record relates to National Service post 1945
Hi,
I can only tell  you what I was charged for my grandfather's  records by the TNA, which his are  pre,  during and post war.
My charge for his records was exactly 24.35 pounds, which I think is very good value considering the size of the record .
His covers  40 years of service,   from the year  1926 when he first  joined  up as a young lad ( 19 years old) ,  right through all the years up to august 1966, when he finally  retired .

The fees were  to cover  time for staff to retrieve , search into the records and scan/  photocopy them all.
I really  don't  mind paying for it considering the size of the record. It can't  be cheap taking the time to scan and upload  all the pages  .
There wasn't  one  set cost for records - they email you the costs based on what they think it may finally cost .

 I intially applied through the online TNA portal. The mod  then sent me a letter in the post in response to my online application through  the portal. They told me they've  been moved, and to apply to the tna in writing /email  providing  them with a file  number ( which the mod gave to.me in the letter)  where my grandfather's  record is filed under . The tna then sent me an estimate  after I appled to them in writing with the given  info the mod gave me. The tna  then sent a payment link - eventually , after  I requested the records , and if it exceeds their estimate of 24.35 ( ie complex copying ) they will inform me.

Their  estimate cost  that they initially gave me , was the final cost in my own case, and I didn't  need to pay any more.

Seems  to  me that the big  difference regarding fees and being free  , between mine  and Ewanarms ,  is Ewanarms have come from the MOD and hasn't  been moved  over to the TNA yet , the MOD  hasn't charged Ewanarm anything for the records - so perhaps the ones that  are still held by MOD are free (?)   - Where mine is ( unlucky  for me!) one  of the ones that has  been moved over from the MOD to the TNA. The TNA charges for retrieving them from the files/boxes , copying and uploading records - 24.35 in my own case.


 The other  thing  I find is Interesting,  the TNA says they hold records up to the date of 1964 when you start an order on the portal
" - Records of service for persons serving to 1964 are being sent to The National Archives." Quote from the online portal .
My grandfather's  service ended up to  two years after that date  (in Aug 1966 ) and they definitely hold  his of course. My grandfather died  1991, just  a little over 30 years ago , so  I don't  know if it goes off  how long they've  been dead for ( or their birth year age)  in regards to who's  records they choose to move over  first to the TNA, as it is not going off when they served up to with my own grandfather's records.
Kind regards
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: ewanarm on Wednesday 05 July 23 13:26 BST (UK)
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't charged for the records. I was expecting a fee of £30 as this was the fee before April 2023 and it certainly used to be mentioned on the website when making your request.
The GOV.UK website does say that WW1 records are held at the National Archives and you have to complete a FOI paid request costing £25 but it makes no mention of any charge for WW2 service records.
Title: Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
Post by: Cell on Wednesday 05 July 23 13:52 BST (UK)
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't charged for the records. I was expecting a fee of £30 as this was the fee before April 2023 and it certainly used to be mentioned on the website when making your request.
The GOV.UK website does say that WW1 records are held at the National Archives and you have to complete a FOI paid request costing £25 but it makes no mention of any charge for WW2 service records.
Hi,
 Currently looking through my emails  from them, It  seems like a standard basic  price  that I was charged, so  I probably would have been charged that  exact same price by them even if the service  record was just one page long . I didn't  have to pay anything  extra due to any large volumes or complex copying(*  as outlined in the below text )  from them.  I don't know what  they consider as large volumes though , as my grandfather's seems  pretty large to me.
  I wouldnt be very thrilled about  paying that same amount of 24 pounds for just a few pages though -one of the reasons why  I am sort of putting my husband's grandfather's records off ( they have also  been moved  to the TNA too according to the MOD letter we received ) ,as I know his  record will be very short and I really don't  fancy paying 24 pounds for them.  I really should apply for them, to at least  see what they will charge .

* " We estimate the cost for this paid search will be £24.35.
This fee covers the time taken for one of our team to research into the record and for copies of the records to be sent you. Depending on the size of the records, a further charge may apply for copies to be sent to you via email. Large volumes or complex copying will involve a further fee. The prices we charge are set out by the Fees Regulations under the Public Records Act (1958) and are based on recovering the costs of providing the services" Quote from my email .

And the link they provided me (from the same email)  outlining these  fees set out by the Public Records Act:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/1420/schedule/made

They knew where to find them of course , from the file number  the MOD sent to me in their letter,  but the TNA  would have still had to retrieve them , copy them and read right through all the record deciding what to blank out - which must  have taken them a quite a while  to read though all those pages  (they  only blanked out my grandfather's children names in the record)

I've applied for another service record
the other day from the MOD ( from the TNA Portal  again) , hopefully these ones are still with the MOD and haven't  been moved over to the TNA ,if all  the records that are still with the MOD are free.

 It is very surprising the records are free from the MOD ( or at least yours were) . You'd really  think the MOD would still be charging something to cover  their costs and time involved . I was surprised that  they posted a letter by slow mail to me out here in Aus  costing me nothing at all   -  so your records  being free must have certainly come as a very pleasant surprise to you.
Kind regards :)