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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Gwaelodian on Friday 14 April 23 11:10 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can find John Phillips, know locally as Shon o'r Lan. I know he was born in 1786 in Ystrad Dyfodwg, and that he died in 1871. Initially married to a Gwenllian Llewellyn who died in 1820, he and his second wife, Deborah Thomas, moved to Lan Farm in Pentyrch around 1829. In 1840, or thereabouts, he moved into Lower Pentyrch, which took its own name of Gwaelod y Garth around this time. I cannot find his home after he moved from Lan farm. Can anyone find it on the census?
I have also found he was baptised by total immersion in the Taff with his his wife on April 17th. 1859. He was a local leader of the Ivorites. So grateful if anyone can find that missing link of his home in Pentyrch/Gwaelod y Garth. Thanks. :)
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On the 1851 census at familysearch.org there is this family living at Pentyrch, Glamorganshire:
John Phillips, 65, married, quarryman, head, b 1786
Deborah Phillips, wife, 57, b Ystrad
Howell Phillips, son, 37, b 1814 Ystrad, unmarried ag lab
William Phillips, son, 20, b 1831 Ystrad, unmarried coal miner
Phillip Phillips, son, 17 b 1834 Lantwit Vardre, Glamorganshire, unmarried coal miner
Deborah Phillips, daughter, 14, b 1837 Lantwit Vardre
Does that sound like your man?
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A link to the 1841 census comes up for Deborah Phillip (the wife), which names the residence as Gwailod Y Garth, at Pentyrch, Glamorganshire. There are 10 children altogether shown in the 1841 group, including the four I listed from 1851, and also a Morgan Phillip, aged 75, born Glamorganshire, who might be John's father or uncle.
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Deborah Phillips is easier to track through the records than her husband, as familysearch suggests other records for her.
In 1861 the residence is spelled Gwaelodygarth. By this time, only four of their children are in the household, but 2 nieces and a nephew (also called Phillips) have joined them.
The image of the census page might give more information about the name of the farm, but I don't have access to that, sorry.
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i've checked the addresses in the cenuses for Gwailod Y Garth, Pentyrch in 1851, 1861 and 1871. Unfortunately, there are a considerable num ber of households with that address and the Phillips were listed as schedule 122 of 146 schedules (households) in 1861. No other defining address is listed so it would be difficult to pinpoint the actual dwelling.
Gadget.
Add - just seen your previous post - no other mention of name of dwelling - just Gwaelodygarth at the top of the page and a - do - for subsequent households.
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There is one "reference point" on the 1871 Census - The Gwaelod y Garth Hotel. Deborah Philips is 10 doors away. The Gwaelod y Garth Inn can be seen on Streetview.
John's 1871 funeral notice in "Seren Cymru" only identifies where he worshipped.
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Thank you for this. It has turned up new information in that John Phillips is listed as a quarry man. It also demonstrates Gwaelod y Garth with its own name separate from Pentyrch. It’s hard to imagine where the family lived from the general reference. May be we will never know, but as he was Father of the Ivorites it would be wonderful if their actual home was located. Thank you. :)
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Hanes
There is one "reference point" on the 1871 Census - The Gwaelod y Garth Hotel. Deborah Philips is 10 doors away. The Gwaelod y Garth Inn can be seen on Streetview.
This information is helpful. It could be a cottage in three directions! Looks as if they were certainly within the village and not in the cottages on the mountain.
Thank you. John Phillips died in 1871. Was Deborah mentioned alone?
Nx
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Lisa
The farm was definitely Lan Farm, but I realise as it’s the N side of the Garth may be listed as Efail Isaf. Your research is helpful. Thank you.
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Liza
The .Morgan Phillips listed at 75 is probably the baby Morgan who was under two when Shon’s first wife, Gwenllian died. Deborah is the second wife who would likely have had to care for Morgan given he was a baby when she married his father. A nice piece of research.
I realise that is not the Morgan. He was born in 1820. I have a fairly extensive family tree and there are various Morgans but none born around the 1866 dates. Shon's son Abraham married a daughter of an Evan Morgan. There is also a Morgan Thomas who married Shon's daughter Margaret (b 1828) but that doesn't really fit either. There is yet another Morgan born in 1896 who would have been a grandchild. I wonder if It was a family name. The variations are legion. Thank you so much. nx
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1872 map - the Hotel is marked.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102342583
I haven't checked the 1871 Census as yet to try and determine the direction the Enumerator was moving.
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Ok! I’ve just looked at the present names but difficult to count ten either ways because of rows. Thanks for your help. Nx
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Gwaelodian - John Philllip must had moved rom Lan Farm before 1841 sinc he is listed at Gwaelod y Garth and there are others inhabiting Lan on teh 1841 census. He is on the tithe map in 1839 https://places.library.wales/viewer/4549268#?cv=11&h=978&xywh=81%2C139%2C998%2C619
Looking at the surrounding properties listed before and after his entry in the 1841 census, we have Cockan north - this could be Cockid Uchaf (or Gockett), Tyn y Berllan and Old Figish and then Garth Hill and Troad y Ruw (probably Troad y Rhiw : Turn in the road).
Some of these properties are on the map: https://geo.nls.uk/maps/gb1900/#zoom=17&lat=51.5205&lon=-3.2866&layer=0
or https://maps.nls.uk/view/102342616#zoom=6&lat=9470&lon=12859&layers=BT
Figish is listed. with the Lan and others in an advert for poperties for sale in 1820 : https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3324775/3324776/1/figish
I can't seem to get a link to just show the area round Lan Farm that includes Figgis Land and Gockett, but see Figgis land on the tithe apportionments:
https://places.library.wales/viewer/4549268#?cv=10&h=960a&xywh=-406%2C-69%2C2219%2C1375
There's a reference in Welsh journal in 1910 to a Figis Terrace, Gwaelod y Garth https://journals.library.wales/view/2661483/2672241/33#?cv=33&m=493&h=figis&xywh=84%2C1184%2C1379%2C885
Morgan Phillip aged 75 in the 1841 census could be Sion / John's father. The age listed in 1841 could be incorrect. A Morgan Phillip of Pentyrch was buried back in Ystradyfodwg, St David's Tonpentre aged 81 on Feb 18 1843
He looks to have married twice, his second marriage as a widow of Ystradyfodwg, being to Gwenllyan John 12 Aug 1797 at Llanwonno.
in the Ivorites Eisteddfod to be held in March 1851 to write a verse of praise, sung to the tune 'Calon y Ddwerwen, ' to John Phillips of Gwaelod y Garth for his faithfulness in favour of the Ivorites and the fact that he was a father of 8 sons, in the Illltyd Sant Lodge.
I dare say you already have it, but there is an article about John's son Morgan Phillips in: Y Cenad hedd cylchgrawn misol at wasanaeth yr eglwysi Annibynol, yn neillduol yr ysgol Sabbathol Cyf. XII rhif. 139 - Gorphenhaf 1892. See https://journals.library.wales/view/2511168/2513150/8#?xywh=-410%2C24%2C2685%2C1723
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Wow! Incredible research.Thank you. I shall have to print out the pages as my eyesight doesn't let me see it on line. I will get a friends to translate the Morgan Phillips piece. I am not Welsh speaking, sadly.
A particular side piece of interest is Cockan North. It is listed as a public house. There is no sign of it now and no history I'm aware of . I will look more carefully at the detail you have sent. Again, thank you. I'm more than impressed! Norma
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Sorry there's a piece of a sentence missing!!
In the Ivorites Eisteddfod to be held in March 1851, there was acompetiton to write a verse of praise, sung to the tune 'Calon y Ddwerwen, ' to John Phillips of Gwaelod y Garth for his faithfulness in favour of the Ivorites and the fact that he was a father of 8 sons, in the Illltyd Sant Lodge.
The Ivorites met at the Colliers Arms, near Garth Hill House and were still meeting there in 1893 when a William Phillips accepted a presentation on behalf of his brother John Phillips ex secrertary, who was too ill to attend. https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4596214/4596219/39/
I don't know if these 2 Phillipses are sons of John senior. There doesn't seem to be a John in with the rest of the family in a census, but the Eisteddfod competition states he had 8 sons.
There's a baptism for a John Phillip reputed son of John Phillips by Gwenllian Llewelin was baptised at Ystradyfodwg on 21 Sep 1806.
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Thanks for that. The Phillips are a huge family. Shon - John - had two marriages, as you said. Ive got on file but have forgotten the actual numbers, but he had something like 54 grandchildren. There are still members of the family living in the village. His first son from the se ond matti age, Abraham, lived in the cottage we live in.
I’m very grateful for your research.
Nx