RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: AmyDurdin on Wednesday 05 April 23 11:43 BST (UK)
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For those interested in WW2 and don't want to wait many years for public access. There's a UK Gov petition here to make them all public. I think you'd be interested in signing it.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/633129
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"What interests the public is not always in the public interest!"
Regards
Chas
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I don't think while there are significant numbers of people who served in WWII still alive, it should happen yet.
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I don't think while there are significant numbers of people who served in WWII still alive, it should happen yet.
I disagree, for many reasons. -
We have a law, if we start making exceptions for one group with a special interest, then the precedent is set. It would be the thin end of the wedge. Privacy would be a thing of the past. Young people, both males and females, do things that they later regret. One mistake, that they then pay for, should not be held against them for the rest of their lives.
If they were 18 in 1945, they would be 96 today - surely we can wait 4 years.
Regards
Chas
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Is there a restriction on them getting their own records now, I have both my parents records which were obtained by my late mother a few years ago.
Ancestry have the contract for digitising these records, perhaps the problem now is that they are not readily available. :-\
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I don't think while there are significant numbers of people who served in WWII still alive, it should happen yet.
I disagree, for many reasons. -
Chas, I think you'll find that melba_schmelba was saying the same thing as you: "I don't think ... it should happen yet".
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I don't think while there are significant numbers of people who served in WWII still alive, it should happen yet.
I disagree, for many reasons. -
Chas, I think you'll find that melba_schmelba was saying the same thing as you: "I don't think ... it should happen yet".
You are probably quite right, Andy. I thought the "should" was a typo for "could". Either way, I am disagreeing with Amy the OP. Laws are there for a reason. If we negate laws for good reasons, it won't be long before we negate them for bad reasons.
Regards
Chas
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You're entitled by laws to see them if they fall outside 115 years birth ( it's 115 years not a 100 years, so many will have to wait a lot longer than 4 years as suggested in a previous reply (if their ancestor was only 18 years old.).
I've applied for my grandfather's records from the TNA which have been recently moved over to them ( his birth falls just outside the 115 years ) . They have given me an estimate price and I waiting on another letter back for the final price from them. ( I applied to the MOD, and they searched for me and informed me where it could be found , file number , in the TNA)
I think I am more offended that ancestry has got the contract(?) . I didn't know that.
Yuk!
There are living people on those records, children of the soldiers.
I am not too happy about that being published. I hope they are going to redact
the children's births on the records . It may be OK for England and Wales , but other countries such as N.Ireland have stricter privacy with publishing births online under 100 years.
My mother's and her siblings births aren't online and their births can't be searched for by any Tom Dick and Harry on the net , but yet if my grandfather's record was online, they would be publishing my living mother's birth details . Why should people be able to track her down? ( and I do have an extremely good reason for not wanting her name on the net, so that she can't be tracked down - which I won't go into the details here)
I also know ( knew)my grandfather only too well , he certainly would not have wanted his records published on the net. He'd be absolutely mortified!
It is too soon, My grandfather spent his entire career in the army and only retired from it in the early 1960s
No thank you.
I won't be signing for countless reasons, but mainly because it does actually affect the living.
Kind regards
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You're entitled by laws to see them if they fall outside 115 years birth ( it's 115 years not a 100 years, so many will have to wait a lot longer than 4 years as suggested in a previous reply (if their ancestor was only 18 years old.).
I recently contacted TNA regarding a military record that was marked closed until 2045 and received the following reply:
"Individuals’ records remain closed for 100 years from their date of birth or until proof of death. In this case, there is no identifiable date of birth on the record, which is why the record is closed under the Freedom of Information Act for 100 years from the date the record was created"
I sent proof of death and received a copy of the file along with confirmation that "under the Freedom of Information Act the documents will be released and become a public record".
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I agree that privacy should be protected, but remember that very recent birth, marriage and death records are available on Ancestry, and are probably more useful to anyone with bad intentions than the WW2 service records of a very elderly man or woman.
Regarding access to WW2 service records - if digitised, they are available free here in Australia.I think digitisation is ongoing, though unsure if that is still the case.
Like you Cell, I’m not thrilled that Ancestry have this contract. Would have been nicer if the MOD could have done it themselves as a standalone record set. Probably no money to do so.
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You're entitled by laws to see them if they fall outside 115 years birth ( it's 115 years not a 100 years, so many will have to wait a lot longer than 4 years as suggested in a previous reply (if their ancestor was only 18 years old.).
I recently contacted TNA regarding a military record that was marked closed until 2045 and received the following reply:
"Individuals’ records remain closed for 100 years from their date of birth or until proof of death. In this case, there is no identifiable date of birth on the record, which is why the record is closed under the Freedom of Information Act for 100 years from the date the record was created"
I sent proof of death and received a copy of the file along with confirmation that "under the Freedom of Information Act the documents will be released and become a public record".
I recieved this below email from after I contacted them with the references ( file number where it is and his army number ) the Mod sent out to me. Mine falls just outside the 115 years thank goodness ( so no need of his death cert)
I am still waiting for their email to give me a price so I can pay for it ( I responded to the.below email just over a week ago confirming that I want to proceed with it)
Kind regards
"Good afternoon,
Thank you for your information request to The National Archives.
We believe we hold the record for xxxxxx and are handling your request.
Your reference number is -xxxxxxx. Please quote this reference number in future correspondence with regards to your case to enable us to identify your request more easily.
We are handling your request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. The FOI Act gives you the right to know whether we hold the information you want and to have it communicated to you.
You can find out more about Freedom of Information on our website: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/foi/
As this record is dated to an individual over 115 years old, the search for this record will be subject to our paid search system.
We estimate the cost for this paid search will be £24.35.
This fee covers the time taken for one of our team to research into the record and for copies of the records to be sent you. Depending on the size of the records, a further charge may apply for copies to be sent to you via email. Large volumes or complex copying will involve a further fee. The prices we charge are set out by the Fees Regulations under the Public Records Act (1958) and are based on recovering the costs of providing the services. Unfortunately, we cannot give refunds.
Please note that we cannot guarantee that our search will be successful. The record likely relates to the requested serviceman, but this can only be verified by physically accessing these documents.
Due to the early stage of this project, we are unable to facilitate visitors viewing some of these records either on site or online. This is because they need to be stored, indexed and catalogued before they can make their way into our reading rooms. For information on this transfer project, please see: https://cdn.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/mod-service-records-collection-faqs.pdf
Should you wish to proceed with the search, please let us know and you will receive a fees notice giving the full cost of the search you have requested. Once you have received the notice, payment must be made within 3 months, otherwise your request will be closed and you will have to re-apply.
Depending on how swiftly payment is made, you should receive copies of the requested record within 20 working days, as laid out in the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
Please be aware that this department is currently handling an exceptionally high volume of cases, so it will take us longer than usual to respond to your request. We will update you regularly on the progress of your case. To allow us to process cases as efficiently as possible, please note that we will not be able to answer standard queries or hasteners of cases between these updates. We apologise for the delay and thank you for your continued patience. For more information, please visit our FAQ page
Yours
Sincerely
Xxxx "
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I agree that privacy should be protected, but remember that very recent birth, marriage and death records are available on Ancestry, and are probably more useful to anyone with bad intentions than the WW2 service records of a very elderly man or woman.
Regarding access to WW2 service records - if digitised, they are available free here in Australia.I think digitisation is ongoing, though unsure if that is still the case.
Like you Cell, I’m not thrilled that Ancestry have this contract. Would have been nicer if the MOD could have done it themselves as a standalone record set. Probably no money to do so.
Northern Irish births aren't, you can only apply to GRONI by mail , for any births under 100 years , you need to know the details to apply. Only England and Wales are on Ancestry . My grandfather was Irish. As too many thousands upon thousands who served in the British Army.
I hate that Ancestry have the contract or any other commercial company , I feel it cheapens those who served . My grandfather really would be appalled.
Kind regards
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To be honest I don't think the National Archives have a fully coherent policy on this. Despite what Cell said above, there is no legal requirement for the 115 year embargo. One hundred years is the rule for the release of census information (starting from the date of the census, not date of birth) but that is because it is stipulated in the specific Act of Parliament which authorised the census.
As far as the GDPR and the UK's Data Protection Act 2018 are concerned, once a person has died there is no formal reason the protect their data unless it falls into the special category defined in section 11 of the DPA 2018 - currently that appears to just cover medical information, as mandated by Article 9 (2)(h) of the GDPR which specifies the following as being a special category of personal information which is subject to additional restrictions and handling requirements processing is necessary for the purposes of preventive or occupational medicine, for the assessment of the working capacity of the employee, medical diagnosis, the provision of health or social care or treatment or the management of health or social care systems and services on the basis of Union or Member State law or pursuant to contract with a health professional and subject to the conditions and safeguards referred to in paragraph 3;
The Freedon of Information Act 2000 operates on a different basis altogether, but even that has special categories of exempt information, such as personal health information, which may be withheld by a public body. However the FOIA does not differentiate between information about living persons and those who have died. The nearest it gets to doing so is to categorise certain exempt information as that which would amount to an actionable breach of confidence by the data subject; a person who has died cannot bring an action for breach of confidence, and neither can his/her representative on his/her behalf.
In other words TNA are being abundantly cautious, basically because they can make up their own rules.
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Yes, I should have specified England and Wales Cell. I rushed to post and neglected to amend.
Agree with you that Ancestry cheapens it - you know they’re only in it for the profit. :(