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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: littleem1906 on Sunday 02 April 23 11:10 BST (UK)
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I'm looking into JOHN RICHMOND and ELLEN ROBINSON, both of Birmingham. John was born in c.1845 and Ellen was born in c.1850.
I have their marriage details as follows:
St Jude's Church - 31st August 1868
John Richmond - 22 - Bachelor - Brass Tube Solderer - Wharf Street (Father - Charles Richmond - labourer)
Ellen Robinson - 17 - Spinster - Navigation Street (Father - George Robinson - labourer)
Witnesses - Thomas Decley and Mary Robinson.
I have them both in the 1871 census as follows:
Fordrough Street, Birmingham (no house number given)
Charles Richmond - Head - Married - 75 - Locksmith - Warwick, Birmingham
Mary Richmond - Wife - Married - 76 - Warwick, Birmingham
John Richmond - Grandson - Married - 26 - Brass Tube solderer - Warwick, Birmingham
Ellen Richmond - Granddaughter - Married - 21 - Warwick, Birmingham
Charles Richmond - G Grandson - 1 - Warwick, Birmingham
In regards to John, I think I have also found him in 1861, living with Charles and Mary Richmond. However, in this census he is listed as 'son'. The occupation for him matches, but the birthplace, age and occupation of Charles Richmond is different. Those details are as follows:
Suffolk Street - 4 court, shop
Charles Richmond - Head - Married - 65 - Bird dealer - Staffordshire, Erdington
Mary A Richmond - Wife - Married - 50 - Laundress - Staffordshire, Erdington
John Richmond - Son - 17 - Unmarried - Brass Tube maker - Staffordshire, Erdington
If this John Richmond is the man I'm looking for, then he also appears with the same Charles and Mary Richmond in 1851 at the same address in Suffolk Street. Details as follows:
Suffolk Street, 4 court, shop
Charles Richmond - Head - 54 - Bird Dealer - Warwickshire, Birmingham
Mary Richmond - Wife - 45 - Pen header - Warwickshire, Erdington
John Richmond - Son - 6 - Warwickshire, Birmingham
Looking at the ages of Charles and Mary, is it likely that John was not their son, but their grandson, and this is first revealed in the 1871 census? In which case who ARE the children of Charles and Mary, and who could John's mother possibly have been?
There is a death for a John Richmond in 1872 (with birth date of 1845) in Birmingham which could be my John.
In regards to Ellen Robinson, so far I have only found her in the 1871 census with her husband. I have not found her in later or earlier census records. If John died in 1872, it is likely she could have remarried perhaps.
John and Ellen's son, Charles Henry Richmond is missing in 1881, but is found again in 1891 living as a boarder to the Gardner family, with his new wife Elizabeth (nee Underwood). I have not been able to find him in 1881 so far.
Any help with this couple would be greatly appreciated.
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1841 there is a Charles Richmond, Locksmith, age 42 (1799) in the Birmingham Workhouse.
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The Charles Richmond in 1871 seems to be correct..
Birth index
RICHMOND, CHARLES mmn ROBINSON
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D
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Not sure??
Bapt;
28 December 1849
St Martin, Birmingham, Warwickshire
JOHN Richmond, Son of CHARLES/MARY
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Another child.
GRO 1871 Dec qtr. Birmingham
Elizabeth Richmond mmn Robinson.
Baptism 7 November 1871.
Elizabeth d/o John and Ellen. Indrogh St ? . Tube maker.
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Another child.
GRO 1871 Dec qtr. Birmingham
Elizabeth Richmond mmn Robinson.
Baptism 7 November 1871.
Elizabeth d/o John and Ellen. Indrogh St ? . Tube maker.
St Thomas. Birmingham.
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Another child.
GRO 1871 Dec qtr. Birmingham
Elizabeth Richmond mmn Robinson.
Baptism 7 November 1871.
Elizabeth d/o John and Ellen. Indrogh St ? . Tube maker.
Possible death Dec qtr 1872 age 0 Birmingham.
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Thank you - that's really helpful.
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The Charles Richmond in 1871 seems to be correct..
Birth index
RICHMOND, CHARLES mmn ROBINSON
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D
I have found hiim , apart from 1881, but in all records he is plain Charles, no middle name .
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Not sure??
Bapt;
28 December 1849
St Martin, Birmingham, Warwickshire
JOHN Richmond, Son of CHARLES/MARY
Address Suffolk St
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Thanks for that Mabel Bagshawe.
So same address as 1861 Census.
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That's great - thank you. I wonder why they had children so late in life. Mary would have been around 40 years old when John was born so there must surely have been other children prior to this. I've not found any yet.
In 1841 Charles appears to be in the workhouse, but I've not found Mary. Perhaps if she was at home I would have an idea if they had more children. Or if she is boarding with others maybe her children could be with her.
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I looked for a Marriage post 1841 for Charles to a Mary with little luck.
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There is a marriage in Birmingham between a Charles Richmond and Mary Ann Twist in 1826 at St Philips. This is the only one I could find.
Charles and Mary appear in 1851, 1861 and 1871 together - all with their son John. Charles was in a workhouse in 1841 but there is no sign of Mary.
If the marriage above is not theirs, then Mary would have been going by her maiden name in 1841, of which I don't yet know.
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That is true and John if his birth was reg may be under her maiden name!