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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Andy_T on Wednesday 29 March 23 17:15 BST (UK)
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Hello roots members,
Just when I thought I'd transcribed all wills and Chancery court cases for a report for my local history group, I came across William Bainbrigge aka Bianbridge who was a Derby merchant, Bailiff and MP.
In his will said by National Archives to be proved 30 October, 1583
The date will was made is one of my queries and a link to Parliament information about MP's in 16th Century mentions his will was made 22nd April, 1583.
So my first question is was the year will made 1583 correct as it looked more like 23rd April, 1583 to me?
I attached a clip and date made shows just after "In the name of God Amen"
My second query is the place name of some mills mentioned and I attached a clip of what looks like "fibre walk mills"?
I have some other names of people I would like opinions about as to what those names are. I will post snips of some of these in this thread later.
Thanks,
Andy_T
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The date looks like 22 April 1583 to me.
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and twoe walke mylles?
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Thanks for replies Watson.
Perhaps its two water mills.
Andy_T
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Here is part of page 2 of 3 pages and on my hard copy I numbered lines at top of page 2 as Line 43. Further down in bold letters the word ITEM is line 61.
My name queries are:
Line 45 - William Pawlett?
Line 57 - Nicholas Burgeith?
Line 59 - viz Nester?
Lines 63 & 65 is word personage or parsonage (minister's house)?
A few more to follow later.
Thanks.
Andy_T
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Thanks for replies Watson.
Perhaps its two water mills.
No, there are four water mills on the line above. These two are walk mills, also known as fulling mills:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
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Thanks Arthurk, the link explains a few variations of spelling walk.
I was hoping for a clue as to the location of the mills but it only mentions in Derby.
BTW there was a "Rope Walk" and 4 water mills; 2 corn mills and 2 fulling mills in my village just one mile from Derby. Based on the link you sent, it would be a rope mill with open sides or a long open outdoor area where hemp fibre was hand twisted to make rope.
Later about 1752, one corn mill was converted to a flint grinding mill for pottery and there was said to be a red-lead mill also later on. George and Charles Bage built a large paper mill here c.1708 and it burned down about 1930.
Darley Abbey is well known for the cotton spinning mills built by Thomas Evans in 1782 although he had to rebuild 6 years later as the first one burned down.
Andy_T
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Another couple of names queries (See this attachment):
2nd Line - Henry Morely?
3rd Line - Christopher (?) Bradshaw
Andy_T
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From your reply #4
45 – William Pawlett
57 – Nicholas Englishe
59 – Ric(hard) ffletcher
67 & 69 – written personage but means ‘parsonage’
From your reply #7
2 – Henry Werdey
3 – Sentlowe Bradshawe
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I came across Robert Bainbrigge aka Bianbridge who was a Derby merchant, Bailiff and MP.
In his will said by National Archives to be proved 30 October, 1558.
Some confusion here?
The extracts you have posted are from the will of William Baynbrigge, not Robert.
The National Archives gives the date of probate of this will as 30 October 1583, not 1558.
This seems to be him ...
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/bainbridge-william-1583
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Thanks Bookbox and I corrected the date to 1583 and changed Robert to William.
Andy_T
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Thanks again Bookbox.
William Bainbridge / Bainbrigg bequeathed 40/- to Derby Bourugh to appoint a minister in perpetuity which made me think it should say parsonage. He also bequeathed £45 to build and maintain a school for poor children of Derby.
Andy_T
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Finally part of page 3 of 3 pages:
I numbered my hardcopy as follows:
TOP LINE #94
BOTTOM LINE (SHOWN HERE) LINE #125
LINES 94 & 95 "gardenship" or guardianship?
LINE 106 cousin John Lyngett (?)
LINE 107 Thomas Fitch?
LINE 110 Thomas Smythe (?)
LINE 113 "of Alththry to Aerye" ? ???
LINE 125 "Robert Bainbrigge, William Bainbrigge Thomas Nororther (?), Thomas Whiteheed (?)
Andy_T
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94 – gardenshipp
(Doubtless it means ‘guardianship’, but that’s not what’s written. I can’t see this same word in line 95, as you suggest.)
106 – John Lyngett
There is no ‘cousin’. The line reads:
shillinges. Item I give and bequeathe to John Lyngett the Som(m)e of Twentie shillinges
107 – Thomas ffitche
110 – Thomas Smythe
113 – of Ashebye to everye of theme (meaning 'to each of them')
(This place-name also appears in line 103, spelt Asshebye.)
125 – Robert Baynbrigge William Bainbrigge Thomas ffowcher Thomas White clerk
('Clerk' in this context usually means 'Clergyman')
It really is important when transcribing to reproduce the original, and not 'correct' it to what you think it should be.
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Thank you all for replies and corrections. I can only make the weak excuse putting the year of the will as 1558 instead of 1583 as a senior moment, albeit I do have a Chancery court case still to do dated 19/07/1553 - 17/11/1558 concerning the deliberate destruction of a bridge leading to mills in Derby and assault on men working at the mills. William "Barnbridge" aka Bainbrigge aka Bainbridge was joint owner of mills with William More and Humphry Buxton. This occurred in Nov 1553 and caused the none attendance at the opening of Parliament in January, 1554 of Barnbridge and More and they were both suspended and fined for being absent.
A book, "The House of Commons, 1509 - 1558: Appendices A - C". gives some interesting information about "William Bainbrigge" it says the bridge leading to his mills that was destroyed was in "Darley". Darley Abbey is one mile North of Derby on the River Derwent. If this bridge was in Darley Abbey it would be an exciting discovery as the first bridge in Darley didn't show on any map until 1811.
The House of Commons article mentions that when "William Bainbrigge" was Bailiff of Derby in 1558 at the end of the reign of Bloody Mary he carried out the sentence on Protestant martyr Joan Waste who was burned alive on Castle Hill (lately Cockpit Hill) in Derby where Bainbridge owned land and tenements.
Andy_T
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Bookbox I acknowledged the link you posted The History of Parliament online. There is another link I saw previously with early date 1509 - 58 and this gives even more information about William Bainbridge. I also have same page from book of same name Appendixes A - C and I attach page here temporarily.
The bridge destroyed in November, 1554 was said to be in "Darley" (See this attachment). Darley Abbey is one mile North of Derby on the River Derwent. The National Archives Chancery case William Baynbrigg, William More and Humphry Buxton were plaintiffs against Robert Smyth, Roger Burdon, William Buckley, John Hope, Roger Middleton and Robert Wilson accused of destroying a bridge and of assaulting men working at mills connected by the bridge.
Until the Chancery bill is transcribed I can't be sure if the mills were in Derby or Darley near Derby.
Andy_T
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" ... a bridge giving access to mills at Darley owned by them and one Humphrey Buxton was destroyed."
A small point: it seems to have been the mills that were at Darley, not the bridge, as Andy suggested earlier.
Darley Abbey didn't become an ecclesiastical parish until 1847, but the large parish of Darley lay in Derbyshire further to the north. There were mills there, so couldn't they have been referring to that?
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Watson,
It is easy to confuse Darley in Peak District about 25 miles from Derby with Darley Abbey, one mile North of Derby.
This is the National Archives description of the Chancery bill and neither Darley or Darley Abbey is mentioned and other National Archives summaries of different cases sometimes specify "Darley near Derby".
NATIONAL ARCHIVES DESCRIPTION of BILL:
Reference: STAC 4/9/47
Description:
PLAINTIFF: William Barnbridge, William More, and Humphrey Buxton DEFENDANT: Robert Smyth, Roger Burden, William Bukley, John Hepe, Roger Myddelton, and Robert Wilson PLACE OR SUBJECT: Destruction of a bridge and assault on men working plaintiffs' millsat Derby COUNTY: Derby
Date: 19/07/1553-17/11/1558
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Unless I get a copy of the bill I won't know where the mills or the bridge destroyed were.
Andy_T
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Watson, here is another case this time Baynbrigge was defendant in 1570 and this one is definitely Darley one mile North of Derby.
I have a transcript of Edmund West marriage settlement to Joan Collyn of Essex about 1556 when his father agreed to sell apputences of the abbey of Darley and the Parish of St. Alkmund, Derby) and Mackworth (about 3 miles from Derby) and the same names of the lands in the attached were named in the settlement:
- Ox Pasture
- Ware flat
- Crow Meadow
- Olers
Andy_T
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The above (C 78/37/16) is not a separate suit – it’s just the decree (court order or judgment) for the suit linked below, Weste v Bainbrig, C 3/189/70. I think you’ve already transcribed this suit?
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3788993
The images of the decree for this suit can be accessed and downloaded from AALT here …
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/C78/C78no37/IMG_0043.htm
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Thank you very much Bookbox. I downloaded files numbered 043 and 044. Other sheets either side of these seem not to be connected to West v Bainbrigge, please let me know if any other sheets and numbers assigned are connected to Darley Abbey?
The related summary I posted just before your reply was on my to do list, so the one you kindly sent will now jump the queue.
Andy_T
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The decree for your suit is #16, as shown by the last digit in the TNA catalogue reference C 78/37/16.
It starts two-thirds of the way down image 43, where there is a marginated heading and a figure 16.
It ends two-thirds of the way down image 44, where the next decree begins, with another marginated heading and a figure 17.
ADDED
It's not as long as it looks, because there is a substantial overlap between the images.
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Got it with thanks Bookbox
Andy_T
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Over this weekend I have attempted to transcribe the files for plaintiff case Edmund West V William Baynbrigge, William Alestree and William More over possession of meadows occupied by the defendants in Darley, near Derby. The link to files was kindly posted by Bookbox in this thread and it's just two lines of file 0043 and top of file 0044 to about 3/4 down page. I cropped the files and posted here as I request help if some roots chat members would check my transcript and help me with corrections?
Later after polishing the transcript, I have some questions about why did West think he was entitled to the meadows mentioned here as his father Sir William West sold them with other land to fund Edmund West's intended wife's marriage suit.
PART ONE
My attempt at transcript (file 43 two lines so file 44 begins LINE 3):
LINE No.
1. Edmund West of Debdon in the countie of Essex Esquire hath exhibited it bill of complaint unto
2. this honourable courte of chancery against William Baynbrigge William Alestree and William Moor
3. Defendant. Declaring by the same, that the late time(?) being therefore being by the statute made
4. For suppression of Abbies and other Religious houses settled in his demence as of fee as in the pyhte (site)
5. of his crowne (?) of and in the Abbey of Darley in the countie of Darbye and of and in dirte (?) lands
6. Tenement and hereditament which the(n) appertaining as part prett(ended?) and which of the said late dissolved
7. Abbey and to the said Abbey belonging and apperteyning (appertaining?) and that he so being thereof seased (seised): did by his
8. his patent settled such the great settle of England being into the fourth day of February (?) in the
9. xxxy tb year of his witnesses signed gave grante belonging and self onto Sir William West knight
10. father of the said complainant the site of the said late monastery of Darley With
11. houses buildings barns orchards gardens water pools Ryder (cider)? and the soyle (soil) of the said
12. Cyte (site) and fourestess ?? and fourteen and seven acres of arable land in dirte fields in the pyhe (parish?) of the saint
13. Alkmund in Derby and seven acres of arable land in dirt(e) field in the parish of situate
14. pastures in the said parish of saint Alkmund. And that by sort(e) of the said patent the
15. said Sir William West father of the said complainant was of the cyite (site) of the said
16. monastery and other the parts such they appertain lawfully in settled in his demense as of
17. ffee and the issued (?) and p(?)asture thereof fil(l)ing coming and growing did prevent (?) feryle and
18. take to his own use as lawful who for him ? to do(o) whose estate of and in the same the
19. said complaint By good-qu(e)st(e) and lawfully conveyance and assurance in the law(e) hath(e)
20. and is thereof lawfully seased in his demeanse as of ffee. And that the said Complaint(e) and
21. the said Sir William West knight ? esq.? Synce the statute ? of the said bred ? patent peaceably
22. and invertly prey(t)end ( ptetended)? Retired ? and taken the accres and pasture thereof filing com(y)ng and
23. growing by the space of xxEiii tie years ???? and more until(l) now(e) of late that the defendant
24. by reason that guile? and singly augment endure Erquire ??? and swing?? containing pastures
The second file attached is file 0043 as I had to rename it to attach both files. This has the first 2 lines, so the first file 0044 starts at LINE #3.
Andy_T
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Here is part Two of my Transcript with the first two lines of the original file attached (lines 1 and 2) as I had to upload the files separately.
LINE No.
25. are By careful(l) means comen ( common) to than do custodie and possession of the said defendant have by
26. Colour ? of having the same wrongfully and unlawfully entered into fowre (fout) prett ? of the said pastures
27. contained in the said patent that is to say into one pasture called Ox Pasture the second
28. called Wareflatte the third Crowe Meadowe and the forth called the Olys and with in as
29. wile prvtte (private?) and suffer the said complaint nor his testimony ?? and the occupied thereof to take
30. the statute ? thereof but same ? made and contracted ?? dies and ?? Sundrie ? Secret(t) and in lawfull ? your and
31. conseyant (consent?) in the law of the said towre ?? press answer into them selves as unto guise or by
32. promised to the said complaint underwen(t) to the disindenture ? of the said complaint and
33. his heirs for ever and therefore for want(e) of knowledge of the tencie (tenancy)? of the said Tenant?
34. Prayed they’d of this come and pred ? again the said defendant as
35. complaint Remaining of -e—de ?? I’m the said com(plain)t more at large do he and may appear where
36. unto the said defendant appeared and answer declaring by the same among the other thing
37. that to the said prett(ended)? of land named in the said bill of complaint as by the said bill of called Ox(e) pasture Whare-
38. (f)fat and crow(e) meadow they neyther and answer did distwyine (disdain??) to have any tithe ?
39. of June in the twentieth ? year year of the our conaigne ? ladie Elizabeth By the
40. grace of god Queen of England France Ireland defender of the faythe it by the righte honourable
41. By Nicholas ? Dutton (?) high(te) lord(e) keaper of the great seal(e) of England and the court(e) of
42. Chancery ordered adjudged and decreed that the said Complainant his heirs executors
43. administrations and assigns shall have hold(e) occupie and enjoy(e) all the said three prett(ended)? of land(e)
44. called Oxe pasture Wareflatt and Crow meadow and enjoy all the said three prett(ended) ? thereof from which
45. the said defendant by they said answer have disdained as is aforesaid against the said defend
46. and any of them and all others claiming or pre(te)nding any higher tytle of Intrest in and to the said
47. paassed ? in by from or under the said defendant or any of them synce the tyme the bill exhibited
48. in this courte by the said plaintiff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Andy_T
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I am curious about why Edmund West thought he was entitled to the pastures in Darley near Derby when his father Sir Wiliam West agreed to sell them with other land in the Parish of St. Alkmund Derby and with other lands at Mackworth, near Derby. The pastures mentioned by Edmund West are also included in the attached Marriage Settlement of 1557.
Sir William said the lands were to be sold "in fee simple" (freehold) to Robert Hurst of Herts and Richard Barnard of Essex and the sale would, I assume, have funded the settlement?
I attached transcript of the marriage settlement.
According to historians William Woolley and Samuel Lysons and Daniel Lysons, Edmund West did sell the Darley Park, lands in Darley Abbey formally belonging to the abbey and the abbey house to John Bullock in 1574.
Presumably, when widow Margaret Collyn died, her daughter Joan, wife of Edmund West would have inherited all the land and property of and belonging to her mother so the land in Darley would pass onto Joan and automatically belong to husband Edmund West?
But the land was said to be sold in fee simple to Robert Hurst and Richard Bernard and If so how did it go back to Edmund West (if it did)?
If so, how did plaintiffs William Bainbrigge, William Alestree and William More come to be in occupation of the pastures in Darley?
I still don't know where the 4 water mills and 2 Walking mills were nor the location of the destroyed bridge..
Andy_T
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This is the final decree in the suit Weste v. Bainbrig. It states that the defendants have agreed to withdraw their claim to three disputed parcels of land (Ox Pasture, Wareflatt and Crowe Meadow), and that these lands belong by right to the plaintiff Edmund West and his heirs etc.
Because there is considerable variance between your transcription and mine, I found it quicker to write it out again. So that you can compare the two versions, I’ve kept your line numbering, except where you missed seven lines of text (after line 38).
As advised previously – unless you’ve agreed anything different with the local history society that you’re transcribing for – I really would urge you again to transcribe exactly what you see, and not to interpret the text, change spelling or capitalisation, or add punctuation, because such changes can easily lead to misunderstandings. It’s usually best to put any speculation or additional gloss in the Notes at the end.
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[marginated heading]
Decret(um) int(er) Edmond(um) West quer(entem) & Will(elmu)m Baynbrigge & al(ios) def(endentes)
Decree between Edmond West, plaintiff, and William Baynbrigge and others, defendants
1. Where Edmond Weste of Debden in the Countie of Essex Esquier hathe exhibited a bill of Complaynte into
2. this honorable Courte of Channcery agaynste Willyam Baynbrigge Willyam Alestree and Will(ya)m More
3. defendannt(es) declaring by the same that the late kinge henry theighte being by the statute made
4. for suppression of Abbeies and other Religious Howses seased in his demeasne as of ffee as in the righte
5. of his Crowne of and in the Abbey of Darley in the Countie of Darbye and of and in div(er)se land(es)
6. Tenement(s) and hereditament(s) Wyth thappurten(a)nc(es) as parte p(ar)cell and member of the said late dissolved
7. abbey and to the said abbey belonging and apperteyning and that he so being thereof seased did by his
8. l(ett)res patent sealed Wyth the greate seale of England bearing date the fourthe day of Auguste in the
9. xxxijth yeare of his maiesties Raigne [= 1540] geve graunte bargayne and sell unto Sir Will(iam) Weste knighte
10. ffather of the said Complayn(a)nte the Scyte of the said late monastery of Darley Wyth all
11. howses buylding(es) barnes Orchard(es) gardens Waters pooles Ryders land(es) and the soyle of the said
12. Scyte and fourescore and seaven acres of arrable lande in div(er)se fields in the p(ar)ishe of saynte
13. Alkomond in Darbye and div(er)se p(ar)cell(es) of meadowe and fortie sixe acres of pasture in div(er)se
14. pastures in the said p(ar)ishe of saynte Alkomond And that by force of the said l(ett)res patent the
15. said Sir Willyam West ffather of the said Complayn(a)nte was of the Scyte of the said
16. monastery and other the p(re)misses wyth their appurtan(a)nces lawfully seased in his demeasne as of
17. ffee and the yssues and p(ro)ffitt(es) thereof Rising comyng and growing did p(er)teyne Receyve and
18. take to his owne use as lawfull was for him to doo, whose estate of and in the same the
19. said Complayn(a)nte by good Juste and lawfull conveyannce and assurannce in the lawe hathe
20. and is thereof lawfully seased in his demeasne as of ffee and that the said Complayn(a)nte and
21. the said Sir Willyam West have ever synce the grannte of the said l(ett)res patent peaceably
22. and quyetly p(er)teyned Receyved and taken the yssues and p(ro)ffytt(es) thereof Rising comyng and
23. growing by the space of xxviijtie yeares and more untill nowe of late that the said defendantt(es) …
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24. by Reason that div(er)se and sundry anncyent evydenc(es) Escript(es) and Wryting(es) conc(er)ning the said p(re)misses
25. are by casuall meanes com(m)en to thand(es) custodie and possession of the said defendannt(es) have by
26. colour of having of the same wrongfully and unlawfully ent(er)ed into fowre p(ar)cell(es) of the said p(re)misses
27. conteyned in the said l(ett)res patent that is to saye into one pasture called Oxe pasture the second
28. called Wareflatte the thirde Crowe meadowe and the fourthe called the Olers and will in no
29. wise p(er)mytte and suffer the said Complayn(a)nte nor his ffarmours and the occupiers thereof to take
30. the p(ro)fytt(es) thereof but have made and contryved div(er)se and sundrie secrett and unlawfull estat(es) and
31. conveyannc(es) in the lawe of the said fowre p(ar)cell(es) aswell unto them selves as unto div(er)se other
32. p(er)sonnes to the said Complayn(a)nte unknowen to the disinheritannce of the said Complayn(a)nte and
33. his heires for ever and therefore for wante of knowledge of the c(er)tentie of the said Evidence
34. prayed thayde of this Courte and p(ro)ces agaynst the said defendannt(es) as by the said bill of
35. Complaynte Remayning of Recorde in the said Courte more at large dothe and may appear Where
36. unto the said defendannt(es) appeared and made answere declaring by the same amongeste other thing(es)
37. that to the said p(ar)cell(es) of lande named in the said bill of Complaynt called Oxe pasture Ware
38. fflatt and Crowe Meadowe they neyther any of them hathe nor pretendeth to have any tytle or
Int(er)est but therein and ev(er)y p(ar)cell thereof do utterly disclayme and demannde Judgement of the said Courte
as by their said answere more at large dothe and maye appeare Now for asmoche as upon enformac(i)on
made to the said Courte that the said defendannt(es) in their said answere did disclayme to have any Righte
Int(er)este and Tytle in and to the said landes in question comonly called the oxe pasture Wareflatte
and Crowe meadowe so named in their said answere or any parte or p(ar)cell thereof but do by the
same confesse that they nor any of them do p(re)tende to have any Righte or tytle in the same or any
parte thereof It is therefore this p(re)sente t(er)me of Hollye Trynytie that is to saye the Nynthe daye
39. of June in the twelvethe yeare yeare of the Raigne of our Sov(er)aigne ladie Elizabeth [= 1570] by the
40. grace of god Quene of England ffrannce & Ireland defendor of the faythe &c by the Righte honorable
41. Sir Nicholas Bacon Knighte lorde keaper of the greate seale of England and the Courte of
42. Channcery ordered adiudged and decreed that the said Complayn(a)nte his heires executoures
43. admynystratours and assignes shall have holde occupie and enioye all the said three p(ar)cell(es) of lande
44. called Oxe pasture Wareflatt and Crowe meadowe and ev(er)y part and p(ar)cell thereof from whiche
45. the said defendannt(es) by their said answere have disclaymed as is aforesaid agaynste the said defend(ants)
46. and ev(er)y of them and all others clayming or p(re)tending any Righte tytle or Int(er)est in and to the said
47. p(re)misses in by from or under the said defendannt(es) or any of them synce the tyme the bill exhibited
48. in this Courte by the said playntif
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I am curious about why Edmund West thought he was entitled to the pastures in Darley near Derby when his father Sir Wiliam West agreed to sell them with other land in the Parish of St. Alkmund Derby and with other lands at Mackworth, near Derby. The pastures mentioned by Edmund West are also included in the attached Marriage Settlement of 1557.
Sir William said the lands were to be sold "in fee simple" (freehold) to Robert Hurst of Herts and Richard Barnard of Essex and the sale would, I assume, have funded the settlement?
I attached transcript of the marriage settlement.
According to historians William Woolley and Samuel Lysons and Daniel Lysons, Edmund West did sell the Darley Park, lands in Darley Abbey formally belonging to the abbey and the abbey house to John Bullock in 1574.
Presumably, when widow Margaret Collyn died, her daughter Joan, wife of Edmund West would have inherited all the land and property of and belonging to her mother so the land in Darley would pass onto Joan and automatically belong to husband Edmund West?
But the land was said to be sold in fee simple to Robert Hurst and Richard Bernard and If so how did it go back to Edmund West (if it did)?
If so, how did plaintiffs William Bainbrigge, William Alestree and William More come to be in occupation of the pastures in Darley?
I’m afraid I can’t help with this question about the former sale of the land, as referenced in the 1557 indenture that you posted. Do we know for sure that the marriage took place?
The 1578 document transcribed above is just the final decree in the suit Weste v. Bainbrig, so it might help to read the pleadings for that suit. When the ownership of a property is in contention, the pleadings often recite details of the former owners.
If you don’t already have the pleadings, you can order a copy from the National Archives, from this link ...
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3788993
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Thanks Bookbox.
Yes there are some bills from TNA still needed including the one about the bridge destroyed in November,1554.
Good point about the spouse of Edmund West, Joan Collyn was only 15 in 1557 and she married at Sussex in November, 1558 but I can't be sure to whom she married.
My understanding in a nutshell from your transcript of Edmund West plaintiff bill is that the 3 defendants had no deed for 3 out of 4 of the parcels of named land and their farmers had strayed into the other fields.
West didn't seem to want to pursue a complaint about the pasture named "Olers" so presumably they had a lease agreement if not a deed for that land. He leased his mills as well.
A few lines in Baynbrigge's 1583 have references to some leases:
Line #
24. And bequeath more to the said Elizabeth my wife six fyve crown in the pat(t)ent
25. notice I have by Lease for and during all such years and term as I have yet
26. to come in the said without paying of any rent for the same. And after the
27. expiry and ending of the said Lease I give and dispose into said wife there
28. fine grass in my closes of the future ? for the term of her natural life ??
I will find out how to turn off my predictive spellchecker as I have a hard time typing in script in old English as written as it changes it back to modern English.
Andy_T
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I do think Edmund West did marry Jone Collyn and in the transcript of her marriage settlement, Sir William West, father of Edmund West, agreed to sell "in fee-simple" the same 4 parcels of land in Darley; Oxe pasture, Crowe Meadow, Warreflat and Olers were to be sold to Robert Hurst and Richard Bernard. This was to fund the marriage settlement to Jone's mother, Margaret Collyn. There is a family tree (familysearch) showing Edmund West wife was Jona Collins no provenance for the tree is given. Another marriage settlement of John Bullock (courtesy rolls and deeds formally held at Sheffield Reference Library (Jackson Papers) mentioned "Jone alias Jane wife of Edmund West ".
So it looks like Edmund West did Marry Jone Collyn (1557-8) and if Sir William West had sold the 4 parcels of land aforesaid, I don't understand the claim of ownership by Edmund West in 1570.
Andy_T
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So it looks like Edmund West did Marry Jone Collyn (1557-8) and if Sir William West had sold the 4 parcels of land aforesaid, I don't understand the claim of ownership by Edmund West in 1570.
But we don't know for sure that Sir William West did sell the land to Hurst and Bernard - only that he intended to. If, for example, William died before Edmund's marriage to Jone Collyn, that might have scuppered the settlement. Worth looking into?
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Good observation Bookbox,
Sir William West of St. Sepulchre London made his will in December, 1557 and his will was proved 10 February, 1559. I have to find the date of death of Sir William and the date of marriage between Edmund West and Joan (Jane) Collyn (Collins).
Extract from Sir William's will:
"my body to be buried in the Church of St. Sepulchre in Our Lady Chapel next to the high alter and Testament to the high alter of the same church next to hope for making tombe to put to Sepulchres upon."
Andy_T
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Extract from Sir William's will:
"my body to be buried in the Church of St. Sepulchre in Our Lady Chapel next to the high alter and Testament to the high alter of the same church next to hope for making tombe to put to Sepulchres upon."
Suggestion:
... my bodie to be buryed in the
Churche of Seynte Sepulcres in oure ladie Chapell next to the highe Aulter ende Item I give
to the highe aulter of the same Churche iijs iiijd Also to the same Churche iiijli to helpe to
make a Tombe to sett the sepulcre upon ...
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Thank you Bookbox.
"to the highe aulter of the same Churche iijs iiijd Also to the same Churche iiijli to helpe "
I had to look up the numerals and found the attached on TNA quick reference Palaeography:
iiijs = 3s?
iiijd = 4d ?
iii li ? L or l = 50 so what numeral and amount of money was this?
L is sometimes used to denote £ (pound sign)?
Andy_T
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to the highe aulter of the same Churche iijs iiijd Also to the same Churche iiijli
The amounts are 3s. 4d and £4.
s – solidus – shilling
d – denarius – penny
li – librae – pounds
The last digit in any amount, if it is i, is often written as j, to show that it’s the last digit, so that nothing more can be added after it.
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Thank you Bookbox
Andy_T