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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Buteshire => Topic started by: Rdmclure on Saturday 25 March 23 13:51 GMT (UK)
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John McLean and Isobel Thomson (or Thomas) married 1818
children Christian, John, James and Angus
1819, 1821, 1823 and 1826.
I hired a genealogist from Scotland to look into the son Angus but she did not find this family in any census. Just an 1820 Examination Roll parish of Rothesay - crossed out
“a household identified on ‘West Side High Street’ containing John M’Lean, Isobel M’Thomas and Christian M’Lean. This was likely John McLean, his wife Isobel and their eldest child. “
I’m not sure where I can go from here.
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If a professional searcher could find nothing, then it's unlikely that we amateurs can do better, especially with so little to go on.
Can you give us a bit more background? Where did you find the information that led you to look for Angus MacLean, and what else do you know about him?
I don't see any likely listing in the 1841 or 1851 census (transcriptions) or any matching deaths with mother's maiden surname Thomas or Thomson.
Did the family emigrate to somewhere?
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Hello, yes my maternal grandfather’s grandfather was an Angus Maclean. He was born in Scotland abt 1826. He migrated to Prince Edward Island , Canada. He married a woman on Prince Edward Island, Sarah MacGillivray abt 1855. I was told by people with trees on ancestry that his father was John Maclean that I listed. I hired the genealogist to trace whether this John was actually the father of Angus. I have no source that connects the two and I had my doubts.
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I think the answer to your question, if it is to be found anywhere, is likely to be in Canada rather than in Scotland.
There are 20 recorded baptisms of Angus M(a)cLeans between 1824 and 1828 in the Scottish indexes at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, and probably several more whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived. There could also be one or two in surviving records of dissenting religious denominations that have not become available to Scotland's People.
You can narrow down the field by noting the details from the baptism records and comparing them with the deaths index using the mothers' maiden surnames. But the deaths index starts in 1855, so you can't be sure that any of the remaining ones hadn't died or emigrated before 1855.
Without additional evidence there is no way of determining with certainty which one is yours.
A couple of things that may be helpful.
I could not find any of this Bute family in a census, which is what led me to wonder if they had emigrated.
You have confirmed that your Angus did emigrate, so the next question is, have you found him in any census in Canada?
What religion did he belong to?
Next, is there any evidence to suggest that Angus and Sarah might have known one another in Scotland? If so, it might be worth looking for Sarah in Scotland, in the hope that she might lead you to a clue about Angus.
Another clue could be in the names of their children. There is a tradition in Scotland of naming
- the first son after his father's father
- the first daughter after her mother's mother
- the second son after his mother's father
- the second daughter after her father's mother
- the third son after his father
- the third daughter after her mother
which isn't infallible, but can sometimes help.
And finally, do not trust anything you find online unless it's an original document. Especially don't trust online trees on Ancestry (or any other commercial web site). If someone tells you that Angus' father was John, you need to ask them for the evidence to prove it. "He's the only candidate who sort of fits" will not do, given the likely absence of records of other possible candidate.
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Is this him?
Angus Maclean
Birth Date 1819
Age at Death 76
Death Date 5 Jan 1895
Burial Place Little Sands, Prince Edward Island, Canada
1891 Canada Census
Angus McLean 71 Farmer born Scotland as are his Parents
Sarah McLean 71
Kate McLean 45
Peter McLean 34
Sarah McLean 18
Kenneth McLean 10
1881 Census
Angus McLean 60 Farmer
Sarah McLean 60
Catherine McLean 40
Peter McLean 22
Effie McLean 20
Son McLean 0
Sorry I dont have access to open images
Or are there 2 couples around named Angus/Sarah??
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Assuming that Angus McLean's age at date of death is accurate, he was almost certainly born in 1818 as he died only five days into 1895.
But the 1891 implies that he was born in 1819/1820 and the 1881 that he was born 1820/1821.
There are 21 Angus M(a)cLeans baptised 1816 to 1823 in the index to the Old Parish Registers.
From the 1881 census, Catherine must have been born around 1840, so she is not likely to be a daughter of a marriage in 1855. Could the marriage to Sarah have been Angus' second marriage?
Sorry I dont have access to open images
Not sure what you mean? Digital images of all the Canadian censuses are online at Library and Archives Canada https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/pages/census.aspx and you don't even have to register to view them.
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Didnt know that Forfarian, I was just looking at them on Anc Trees.
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Thanks Trish,
My Angus does appear in the 1881 census with wife Sarah and daughter Isabella in lot 40 Prince Edward Island. This rules out the Angus in Little Sands.
The other problem with Little Sands is religion, my Angus’ children are Catholic.
Sarah MacGillivary was Catholic
This is why I doubt he is the son of John and Isobel the most. I am not convinced they were Catholic. Although, it is possible he agreed to become Catholic after his marriage to Sarah
The source for the births on Ancestry are listed as ‘selected Scottish births and baptisms’ Ancestry database Utah
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Forget about Ancestry and FamilySearch. For a start neither of them, as far as I know, has the Scottish Roman Catholic parish registers (though I'd be happy to be corrected on that).
See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
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The family's 1871 census entry in King's Cove, Victoria, Nova Scotia to add to Trish's collection here:
Angus Mclean 52 b. Scotland
Sarah Mclean 52 b. Scotland
Catherine Mclean 31
Malcolm Mclean 25
Norman Mclean 23
Kenneth Mclean 21
John Mclean 19
Rebecca Mclean 16
Peter Mclean 13
Effy Mclean 10
All the children showing as born in Nova Scotia. Their religion is given as Reformed Presbyterian.
If we assume that all the children followed from the marriage of Angus and Sarah, it would seem that they were both in Canada before the 1841 census back in Scotland so will not show there.
Rdmclure, I am sure you have all these census entries. Just adding really for background to your post.
Monica
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FamilySearch has quite a few births/baptisms to Angus McLean and Sarah in Canada, but only three with mother's surname McGillivray or variants
Donald, born 18 December 1854, baptised 8 March 1854 (yes, I know, the baptism is before the birth but that's what the card says), St Georges Parish, PEI
Isabelle, baptised at 3 months old on 18 July 1855, St Georges Parish, PEI
John, born 18 July 1856, St James Parish, Georgetown, PEI, baptised 20 August 1856
There are also records of four children to Angus McLean and Sarah McLean, all in the Presbyterian Church, Wood Islands, Queens, PEI
Hector born 3 April 1864 baptised 22 April 1864
John born 23 December 1865 baptised 22 April 1866
Mary born December 1867 baptised 21 September 1870
Alexander born 24 April 1869 baptised 21 September 1870 (same day as sister Mary)
These are all from digitised images of a typed card index, so presumably there must be some sort of original document from which the information was taken.
I gather that the first typewriters with both upper and lower case were produced in 1878, so this card index must have been created several decades after the baptisms.
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The records with mother showing as Sarah McLean I think likely another couple and their children? The children's names don't match what we are seeing on the census entries (assuming they are the correct entries for Angus and Sarah).
Monica
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Forfarian you have the right children
Donald , Isabella, John Angus.
The cards were produced in the 1970s from church records by volunteers. I have no other info on Donald. All the descendants I know come from John Angus. Angus is listed as Gaelic speaking in the 1881 census.
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So we know that John Angus, born 18 July 1856, survived to adulthood.
The start of the recording of the 1871 census was 2 April 1871, so John Angus would have had his 14th birthday but not his 15th.
Can anyone find him in the 1871 census? I've drawn a blank so far.
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There are two Angus McLeans in the 1881 census in PEI with Sarah McLeans (the extracts below are from the LDS CD-ROM transcription)
Lot 64, Kings, Prince Edward Island, Canada
Angus MCLEAN M M 59 Scottish Scotland
Occ: Farmer Religion: Presbyterian
Donald MCLEAN M 20 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Occ: Farmer'S Son Religion: Presbyterian
Hector MCLEAN M 16 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Occ: Farmer'S Son Religion: Presbyterian
John MCLEAN M 13 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Religion: Presbyterian
Alexander MCLEAN M 10 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Religion: Presbyterian
Charles MCLEAN M 6 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Religion: Presbyterian
Uphemia MCLEAN F 17 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Religion: Presbyterian
Mary MCLEAN F 11 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Religion: Presbyterian
Margret MCLEAN F 4 Scottish Prince Edward Island
Religion: Presbyterian
Sarah MCLEAN F M 53 Scottish Scotland
and
Lot 40, Kings, Prince Edward Island, Canada
Angus MCLEAN M M 55 Scottish Scotland
Occ: Farmer Religion: Catholic
Sarah MCLEAN F M 60 Scottish Scotland
Religion: Catholic
Isabella MCLEAN F 20 Scottish Prince Edward Island
The second couple looks like Rdmclure's Angus McLean and Sarah McGillivray, but Isabella is 20 while their daughter Isabelle would have been 25 or 26, and where is their son John, who would have been 24?
The first couple could be the parents of the 4 children baptised at Wood Islands - Hector is exactly the right age - but their John would have been 15, not 13.
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John Angus had already had a daughter before his marriage in 1883. So I am not surprised he is not home in 1881. I cannot explain why Isabella is off by 5 years but this is not unheard of in a Canadian census.
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So you reckon those are your Angus and Sarah?
In which case the family that Trish and MonicaL found in 1871, 1881 and 1891 are indeed a different Angus and Sarah.
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I am confident that is them. I just don’t know how to go back a generation to Scotland.
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I wish I could find Angus and family in the 1871 and 1861 censuses, but so far no joy. Nor have I found a marriage record.
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PEI did have a census in 1861 but it does not list the members of the household, just the head of household.
(It did not join Canada until 1873)
The marriage record is not indexed on the database at PEI archives. I would have to look through the church records myself for the years in question
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The marriage record would only help, really, if it gave the names of the couple's parents or said where they came from.
It would be interesting to know why the people with online trees think that Angus' father's name was John - are they basing that on his son being named John Angus, or do they have some other piece of evidence? Because the fact that his first son was named Donald would suggest that his father was more likely to have been Donald.
I don't see where on the 1881 it says he spoke Gaelic, but if he did that might help to restrict the parts of Scotland he might have come from.
If he was originally Catholic, that too would reduce the areas he might be from, as most of Scotland was presbyterian apart from certain areas which remained Catholic - notably the southern parts of the Western Isles (Uist/Benbecula/Barra etc) and several pockets on the mainland.
One possible avenue of enquiry would be via Co Leis Thu? https://www.hebridespeople.com - I believe they have some records of who emigrated from the Hebrides aboard which ship and when.
It might also be worth studying other families from Scotland who settled in the same place as your Angus. There could be clues among their families - for example children born in Scotland who emigrated with their parents and who can be traced to a particular place by their baptisms. If you were to find, for example, that all the Catholic Scots in the same part of PEI were from, say, South Uist, and that they all received land grants in PEI at the same time, it would be a reasonable line of enquiry to look for Angus there.
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One thing I do have is the Y-dna test. This hasn’t helped me yet but someday when more people have been tested this might be useful. Right now it shows my Maclean as an R1a type which is not as popular as R1b apparently.