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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: OurAncestors on Tuesday 21 March 23 20:10 GMT (UK)
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I found a cemetery record for one of my ancestors who died in Newcastle Workhouse Infirmary in 1910. He was Charles Graham and his burial was listed in the register of burials in St. John and Elswick.
I found the microfiche in Tyne and Wear archives
The location of the burial is St. Augustine. I checked and apparently there was a St. Augustine on Brighton Grove, which would have been the local church to the workhouse. I am not expecting to find a headstone or memorial as none of the other members of that branch of the family left any trace, but I would like to see where he may have ended up and see if there is anything he wants to communicate. I see I may need to the local studies in City Library. Do you know if St. Augustine had a Cemetery or was that was where the funeral was done or priest from?
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I have never heard of this microfiche before. Are you saying there is a microfiche showing where workhouse burials were?
This is interesting as I know someone who is trying to find the burial of their ancestor who died in the workhouse 1906 and I have been helping but so far burial find has been elusive around local cemeteries.
I wonder if your ancestor might have been buried at Elswick Cemetery but removed from (that is body taken from) St Augustine's Parish? If so, Elswick Cemetery burial records are at the Newcastle local studies and this is easier to access than Tyne and Wear Archives, with their booking systems at the moment.
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If his burial is entered in the register of St John and Elswick then that is where he is buried.
You need to look at the column headings on the record, I suspect that RTL is correct and the record is showing that the death occurred in the parish of St Augustine and the body would have been removed from there to St John and Elswick for burial..
What is the section and grave number for the burial? There is a chance that there may have been family members in the same plot. The grave registers are a pain to look through but I have a spreadsheet that narrows down which film it may be on and am happy to look if you'd like.
NB though he died in the Workhouse Infirmary, the grave may still have been a private one, not everyone who was in the workhouse infirmary was destitute, it was the main source of healthcare for the majority of people.
Boo
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I wondered about the RC burials in the heading.
1 There is only one Charles Graham I can see whose death was registered in 1910 Newcastle, he was aged 61
2 It would seem that this is fairly likely to be his 'funeral' (NB not burial) record indexed on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZPZ-JXQ
The document info on that page shows this was indexed from film no 1936954 and looking that up in the catalogue on FS shows that was the funeral register for St Mary RC Clayton St., Newcastle.
Discrepancy
that funeral record gives a date of 24th June, the death was registered in Q3. ? perhaps a transcription error on the record OR there may have been an inquest and the coroner gave permission for the burial to go ahead prior to him completing the inquest and registering the death.
If this sounds like your man then look at your copy of the burial record the info on there (read it in relation to what the column headings say)
It should give a date of burial - which would narrow the time frame to see IF there was a notice in the newspaper,
Whether it was in a consecrated ( C of E) or non consecrated section and the plot number. - that will help us to look and and see if there are any other family members in the same grave (can happen even if burial rights not purchased)
Boo
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I have never heard of this microfiche before. Are you saying there is a microfiche showing where workhouse burials were?
This is interesting as I know someone who is trying to find the burial of their ancestor who died in the workhouse 1906 and I have been helping but so far burial find has been elusive around local cemeteries.
I wonder if your ancestor might have been buried at Elswick Cemetery but removed from (that is body taken from) St Augustine's Parish? If so, Elswick Cemetery burial records are at the Newcastle local studies and this is easier to access than Tyne and Wear Archives, with their booking systems at the moment.
Yes there is a microfiche of cemetery records of st. john and elswick, at TWAS.
I asked how I would find where my ancestor was buried and he passed away on Westgate Road in 1910.
I do have his dc so I knew I had the correct entry.
I was directed to that microfiche. Due to the location of the workhouse, I noticed quite a few died in the workhouse, listed on that register. I did not see any grave plot numbers.
The microfiche is hard for me to use because I get too much pain in my neck with musculoskeletal problems.
I had already sat there looking at the baptism records for St Dominics before I turned my attention to Charles cemetery search, my neck was seizing up a bit, maybe I missed something important.
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Could you tell me please (just a terminology thing but its puzzling me)
you said this is 'microfiche'
Is that a small rectangular sheet, fiche that fits under the glass on a fiche reader
or is it a reel of "microfilm" ?
Boo
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If his burial is entered in the register of St John and Elswick then that is where he is buried.
You need to look at the column headings on the record, I suspect that RTL is correct and the record is showing that the death occurred in the parish of St Augustine and the body would have been removed from there to St John and Elswick for burial..
What is the section and grave number for the burial? There is a chance that there may have been family members in the same plot. The grave registers are a pain to look through but I have a spreadsheet that narrows down which film it may be on and am happy to look if you'd like.
NB though he died in the Workhouse Infirmary, the grave may still have been a private one, not everyone who was in the workhouse infirmary was destitute, it was the main source of healthcare for the majority of people.
Boo
I did not see anything like that on the entry, it was a single row, name of person, date of burial, where died, unconsecrated ? (yes), place of burial, who performed burial, I do have a copy of that name but I cannot read it.
Charles was a general labourer from Ireland and I am assuming he had no assets. He was a first generation immigrant. In 1901 he was living at 33 Duke Street, and the census enumerator had his occupation was what looks like "navvy" tho what that entailed is not clear. His wife Mary Ann died in 1913.
Yes his date of death was 4 days before the burial but I assume this was because the workhouse wanted to ascertain how and why he died? Or maybe a waiting list for the funeral?
Microfiche, yes, a roll of micro film passed through a glass rectangle is projected onto a screen in a fixed box like an old fashioned computer terminal.
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Microfiche, yes, a roll of film passed through a glass rectangle is projected onto a screen in a fixed box like an old fashioned computer terminal.
ahh yes, I'd know that as a "microfilm', they are kept in small boxes in the filing cabinets in the search room to be used on the dedicated film readers.
I think the term 'microfiche' confused RTL too as they are small individual sheets rather than a reel.
Sorry to be pernicketty, but I think both RTL and I were wondering if TWAS had an additional resource we were not aware of.
Boo
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I wondered about the RC burials in the heading.
1 There is only one Charles Graham I can see whose death was registered in 1910 Newcastle, he was aged 61
2 It would seem that this is fairly likely to be his 'funeral' (NB not burial) record indexed on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZPZ-JXQ
The document info on that page shows this was indexed from film no 1936954 and looking that up in the catalogue on FS shows that was the funeral register for St Mary RC Clayton St., Newcastle.
Discrepancy
that funeral record gives a date of 24th June, the death was registered in Q3. ? perhaps a transcription error on the record OR there may have been an inquest and the coroner gave permission for the burial to go ahead prior to him completing the inquest and registering the death.
If this sounds like your man then look at your copy of the burial record the info on there (read it in relation to what the column headings say)
It should give a date of burial - which would narrow the time frame to see IF there was a notice in the newspaper,
Whether it was in a consecrated ( C of E) or non consecrated section and the plot number. - that will help us to look and and see if there are any other family members in the same grave (can happen even if burial rights not purchased)
Boo
Yes this is he. It makes sense that he would have had a funeral at St. Mary's as that was the nearest church to his actual home and where he got married to Mary Anne.
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Microfiche, yes, a roll of film passed through a glass rectangle is projected onto a screen in a fixed box like an old fashioned computer terminal.
ahh yes, I'd know that as a "microfilm', they are kept in small boxes in the filing cabinets in the search room to be used on the dedicated film readers.
I think the term 'microfiche' confused RTL too as they are small individual sheets rather than a reel.
Sorry to be pernicketty, but I think both RTL and I were wondering if TWAS had an additional resource we were not aware of.
Boo
I see. I havent used these devices much and I was not aware of the different meanings to these 2 terms. Thank you for clarifying.
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Just to say you were exactly right Boo, I did think Our Ancestors had found an additional resource I had not heard of.
I do of course know of the microfilms at the archives but much prefer microfilms to microfiche anyway.
I daresay it will be easy to get the two confused if not familiar with the terms. I didn't know either when first got into this hobby.
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Graves registers for Elswick Cemetery
They have Charles Graham buried 28 July 1910 in Y 105 (unconsecrated section)
Age given looks like 67 yrs.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJN-F9G9-B
Thank you, that is useful. Y 105. What does unconsecrated imply, I have seen Records for Charles Graham noting Roman Catholic and St Mary's Clayton St, does Elswick cemetery not have a specific RC section? I have also tried to find a plot map but so far no luck. With a plot map I would be able to go and have a look at where he was planted. I doubt there will be any clues there but with a plot map I can have a rough idea. North Tyneside cemeteries have detailed plot maps. ;)
If any tech expert on this board can link this up with the other post about Charles Graham Elswick and St John that would be helpful?
Can anybody help please?
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Not sure what you want help with but if its to answer the questions "what does unconsecrated imply" and "does Eswick not have a separate RC section" then maybe this will help
Consecrated Section means that the entire section was consecrated according to the rites of the C of E religion - as a job lot.
Other areas labelled Unconsecrated means that different denominations were buried there and the individual plot/grave was consecrated at the time of burial according to the rites of the chosen religion of the deceased.
EDIT
To the best of my knowledge Elswick had only Consecrated and Unconsecrated areas though to verify that you would need to ask the cemeteries department
Apologies, I'd forgotten that there is a small section which is dedicated as a Jewish Cemetery. Other than that, areas are either Consecrated (C of E), or Unconsecrated (grave individually consecrated to the deceased's preferred religion or not consecrated at all for those who had no religious affiliation)
see the section plan:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01ocq/
Boo
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See also my reply here https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883113.msg7661993#msg7661993